US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[LarryBudMelman]

You realize the post was designed to illicit this exact response, right?

Don't feed the Chrissy.

Yeah, thanks....

 

[Ulle Relaxes]

Maybe not news but I find the Calfornia connection interesting.
__

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19970688

Teresa Casazza, president of the California Taxpayers Association, said the $855 million tax hike will create a new bureaucracy with little accountability to taxpayers. She noted that California already is struggling with unemployment and a budget deficit exceeding $10 billion.

"Now is not the time for Lance Armstrong to come into our state and ask us to support a flawed measure like Prop. 29, which would raise our taxes by nearly $1 billion to create another big-government spending program run by a commission of political appointees," Casazza said in a statement.

Lance now raises taxes as well as killing babies! What a bleeding heart liberal!

 

[MarkvW]

EHR Update

The Extreme Hater Referendum is at 134 signatures.

Where are all the people who believe that Birotte's decision "undermines a foundation" of our legal system? That there was an appearance of "tacit collusion"? That there was overwhelming evidence against Lance?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You realize the post was designed to illicit this exact response, right?

Don't feed the Chrissy.

Well it is true that someone can believe that Tyler his Twin and Floyd would get crushed on defense cross AND also believe that LA was on the gear.

Additionally some could hold a different opinion in regards to Betsy A. and draw their own conclusions on those opinions. It is ok to state them in here correct?

I do not agree with you on this Scott. (Not that it matters)

 

[Semper Fidelis]

The Extreme Hater Referendum is at 134 signatures.

Where are all the people who believe that Birotte's decision "undermines a foundation" of our legal system? That there was an appearance of "tacit collusion"? That there was overwhelming evidence against Lance?

I had to dig into this thread all day to find the post where it is linked. Post #1403 by RR, it had been buried with all the back and forth.

alleged crimes of Lance Armstrong despite overwhelming credible evidence given under oath.

giving an appearance of tacit collusion between Andre Birotte & Lance Armstrong


https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...under/dBnnkGDr


From the amount of signatures to the petition not that many people care to get an explanation with regards to the lack of prosecution of LA.

 

[thehog]

I have to agree. That petition website is going the same way as facts4lance! (which served its purpose mind you according to Fabani)

I had to dig into this thread all day to find the post where it is linked. Post #1403 by RR, it had been buried with all the back and forth.

alleged crimes of Lance Armstrong despite overwhelming credible evidence given under oath.

giving an appearance of tacit collusion between Andre Birotte & Lance Armstrong


https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...under/dBnnkGDr


From the amount of signatures to the petition not that many people care to get an explanation with regards to the lack of prosecution of LA.

 

[thehog]

Lance now raises taxes as well as killing babies! What a bleeding heart liberal!

Waste of Tax payers money. Where have I heard that before?

http://www.bostonherald.com/track/c...garette_tax_measure/srvc=home&position=recent

"Like many initiatives, this plays to people’s emotions," he said. "Who likes cancer? Nobody does. But when we’re raising tuition at universities and shortening the ... school year and shutting down core services, is this where we should be spending our money?"

Those actively fighting the measure, including tobacco companies and anti-tax groups, object that the money it raised would be distributed without oversight from lawmakers or any other elected officials.

"Prop. 29 mandates a huge new bureaucracy with little accountability to taxpayers," said Teresa Casazza, president of the California Taxpayers Association.

 

[MarkvW]

Well it is true that someone can believe that Tyler his Twin and Floyd would get crushed on defense cross AND also believe that LA was on the gear.

Additionally some could hold a different opinion in regards to Betsy A. and draw their own conclusions on those opinions. It is ok to state them in here correct?

I do not agree with you on this Scott. (Not that it matters)

Floyd would get reamed on cross. He's lied and defrauded people in an effort to cover up his doping and he only came clean after all hope of riding pro had been dashed. He may have even solicited help from Lance. Then there's the Grey Manrod statements and his big pending qui tam case against Lance. Anybody who thinks that jurors would have been impressed with Floyd's honesty after hearing all that is nuts.

When Floyd testifies to the doping of Lance and the Posties, it looks like Floyd would have been one in a small crowd of witnesses to testify to that fact. However, when it comes to statements that Lance told Floyd alone, Floyd's dishonesty and bias would surely have mattered.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Floyd would get reamed on cross. He's lied and defrauded people in an effort to cover up his doping and he only came clean after all hope of riding pro had been dashed. He may have even solicited help from Lance. Then there's the Grey Manrod statements and his big pending qui tam case against Lance. Anybody who thinks that jurors would have been impressed with Floyd's honesty after hearing all that is nuts.

When Floyd testifies to the doping of Lance and the Posties, it looks like Floyd would have been one in a small crowd of witnesses to testify to that fact. However, when it comes to statements that Lance told Floyd alone, Floyd's dishonesty and bias would surely have mattered.

Hey Mark - how many jurors are there on a USADA case?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have to agree. That petition website is going the same way as facts4lance! (which served its purpose mind you according to Fabani)

Remember the "Support for Lance" website?

Some rather interesting comments there - for a guy who has 3 million followers on twitter its rather surprising he has so little support - only 220 facebook 'likes'.

 

[MarkvW]

I had to dig into this thread all day to find the post where it is linked. Post #1403 by RR, it had been buried with all the back and forth.

alleged crimes of Lance Armstrong despite overwhelming credible evidence given under oath.

giving an appearance of tacit collusion between Andre Birotte & Lance Armstrong


https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition...under/dBnnkGDr


From the amount of signatures to the petition not that many people care to get an explanation with regards to the lack of prosecution of LA.

There would never be any explanation, anyway. It would go something like "Fairness . . .grand jury secrecy . . . Respect the process . . . Confidence in the dedicated public servants . . .blah . . .blah . . .blah."

 

[DirtyWorks]

When Floyd testifies to the doping of Lance and the Posties, it looks like Floyd would have been one in a small crowd of witnesses to testify to that fact. However, when it comes to statements that Lance told Floyd alone, Floyd's dishonesty and bias would surely have mattered.

How many times do we have to go over this? The industry was telling him to lie, take the penalty and Wonderboy/UCI will find a team for him. Where do you think the bulk of the Floyd Fairness Fund came from?

So, Floyd uses the 'everyone does it. So what?" line like the Wonderboy army.

You seem fully committed to your opinion, like you know what you are talking about. Are you a trial attorney?

 

[broken chain]

Say what you like but the fact remains that the Lance whipped everyone for 7 tours.
Everyone had access to the same chemicals as Lance did.
He was a 3d guy,discipline,desire,determination,(well 4d really if you consider drugs although the case against him was dropped)so he obviously didn't dope.
Tactical excellence along with a super aggresive style of riding pushed him over the top.Lance turned winding routes into straightaways by cuttting corners really close,as witness when he was tumbled by a hand bag.
In essence,he rode shorter distances than everyone else,maybe not by much but at that level it did make a big difference,literally seconds.
Lance was so obsessed,his meals were weighed to exact portions.
I guess having an ex-president as your friend also has its advantages.
He beat the best riders and the best dopers 7 times.
It was an equal playing field.

 

[ChrisE]

Say what you like but the fact remains that the Lance whipped everyone for 7 tours.
Everyone had access to the same chemicals as Lance did.
He was a 3d guy,discipline,desire,determination,(well 4d really if you consider drugs although the case against him was dropped)so he obviously didn't dope.
Tactical excellence along with a super aggresive style of riding pushed him over the top.Lance turned winding routes into straightaways by cuttting corners really close,as witness when he was tumbled by a hand bag.
In essence,he rode shorter distances than everyone else,maybe not by much but at that level it did make a big difference,literally seconds.
Lance was so obsessed,his meals were weighed to exact portions.
I guess having an ex-president as your friend also has its advantages.
He beat the best riders and the best dopers 7 times.
It was an equal playing field.

You need to be a little more subtle next time.

 

[doolols]

(well 4d really if you consider drugs although the case against him was dropped)so he obviously didn't dope.

I take it this is a joke? Just in case you missed the thousands of posts about this - the Department of Justice dropped the criminal, federal case against LA. It does not mean that he didn't dope. Lack of guilty verdict in one case doesn't automatically mean innocence in another. The doping case continues.

He beat the best riders and the best dopers 7 times. It was an equal playing field.

This is hilarious. As you mentioned, he had friends in high places, which meant that he was protected. Money talks. Positive test results get covered up. There is no way it was a level playing field.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Say what you like but the fact remains that the Lance whipped everyone for 7 tours.
Everyone had access to the same chemicals as Lance did.
He was a 3d guy,discipline,desire,determination,(well 4d really if you consider drugs although the case against him was dropped)so he obviously didn't dope.
Tactical excellence along with a super aggresive style of riding pushed him over the top.Lance turned winding routes into straightaways by cuttting corners really close,as witness when he was tumbled by a hand bag.
In essence,he rode shorter distances than everyone else,maybe not by much but at that level it did make a big difference,literally seconds.
Lance was so obsessed,his meals were weighed to exact portions.
I guess having an ex-president as your friend also has its advantages.
He beat the best riders and the best dopers 7 times.
It was an equal playing field.

Actually Lance was a 6 D guy -don't forget Drugs, Dr Ferrari & Donations.
Lance didn't beat the system, he bought it.

 

[MarkvW]

How many times do we have to go over this? The industry was telling him to lie, take the penalty and Wonderboy/UCI will find a team for him. Where do you think the bulk of the Floyd Fairness Fund came from?

So, Floyd uses the 'everyone does it. So what?" line like the Wonderboy army.

You seem fully committed to your opinion, like you know what you are talking about. Are you a trial attorney?

Like I said, when it comes to DOPING, Floyd's dishonesty wouldn't likely be a big problem. But when it comes to confidential statements that Floyd said that Lance made to him? A jury would need something more.

Some people are faithfully committed, in the complete absence of fact, to believe that the Feds walked away from an overwhelming case against Lance. That belief is irrational, and no amount of reasoning here is ever going to change it.

This is just one weakness the feds would have had to deal with.

 

[thehog]

You need to be a little more subtle next time.

He had me at "equal playing field".

 

[VeloCity]

You seem too smart to live in such a binary world Velocity.

If somebody thinks TH's and FL's past transgressions and lies will cause them to get massacred on cross examination, that does not mean that same somebody thinks LA didn't dope.

If somebody thinks BA is a nutjob, that does not necessarily mean they think LA didn't dope.

Got it?

'Cept they're among the main reasons we know Armstrong was doping. So if you don't believe them, dismiss their claims outright because they're "liars" and "nutjobs", then what's the alternative?

 

[thehog]

'Cept they're among the main reasons we know Armstrong was doping. So if you don't believe them, dismiss their claims outright because they're "liars" and "nutjobs", then what's the alternative?

Well you could turn it on its head…. If Armstrong was shown to be the same liar, doper, written books on being clean, conned people, accepted finance from others for shady causes then Floyd and Lance are not too far apart.

 

[MarkvW]

'Cept they're among the main reasons we know Armstrong was doping. So if you don't believe them, dismiss their claims outright because they're "liars" and "nutjobs", then what's the alternative?

The feds worked this case for two years. The dopers themselves would likely have provided corroborating evidence (bank statements, dealer names, etc.). There would also be a small crowd of admitted Postie dopers. I doubt proving doping was a problem.

My guess is that the problems revolved around proving fraudulent inducement to contract and other stuff.

 

[Polish]

The Extreme Hater Referendum is at 134 signatures.

Where are all the people who believe that Birotte's decision "undermines a foundation" of our legal system? That there was an appearance of "tacit collusion"? That there was overwhelming evidence against Lance?

I think there are many many more that DO believe in the overwhelming sufficient evidence and that there WAS a Government CoverUp.

However, they also believe that logging onto a Government Website will open up a malicious Government Mind Control Portal on their computer.
And Kris T, the creator of the "petition", is most likely a Livestrong/Halibuton operative.

And to those of you who actually signed on to the "petition"?
Don't worry too much about that slight ringing you hear between your ears. I'm sure its perfectly normal. LiveStrong.

 

[Microchip]

I take it this is a joke? Just in case you missed the thousands of posts about this - the Department of Justice dropped the criminal, federal case against LA. It does not mean that he didn't dope. Lack of guilty verdict in one case doesn't automatically mean innocence in another. The doping case continues.

This is hilarious. As you mentioned, he had friends in high places, which meant that he was protected. Money talks. Positive test results get covered up. There is no way it was a level playing field.

Including the possibility that the outcome in some stages may have been bought.

 

[MarkvW]

Including the possibility that the outcome in some stages may have been bought.

By "bought," do you mean "vinokouroved?"

 

[Microchip]

MarkvW, that's the idea yes.

I wouldn't name it after Vinokourov because it's not as if he set the precedent - "match fixing" in cycling was around before that incident last year.