US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[hrotha]

Those who say "who cares if they dope, it's only a sport, it's not and cannot be a crime" are perhaps forgetting that professional sports are a multi-billion dollar industry and that you can make tons of money out of it. You aren't cheating people out of honour and pride, you're effectively cheating them out of lots of money. There's a reason why sports fraud is a crime in many countries.

 

[Aleajactaest]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...strong-federal-investigation-raises-questions

Bonnie Ford has a good overview



This jibes with what NPR reported, the GJ was closed before they could render a verdict.

Lobbying works

Grand Juries don't render a verdict.

 

[The Gnome]

as far as I can tell, it is done...any idea that justice would now be given in civil court...or via any governing sporting body...especially in USA...or hell, worldwide...is ridiculous...c'mon boys, just admit it...the D-head got away with it and it is game over...no point in continuing, frankly, any fantasies of justice...it just ain't gonna be...but to me, as a cycling fan, he will always be a D-head...and I am sure the pr#ck could care less with his money and so called clean image via the average idiot out there who does not know anything about our sport and for him lance is just some dude who made a ton of money and sc#ewed s. crow and is pretty fab for that stuff.....but it is there and many of his so called former fans will always feel that way...a man can scam the system, but without respect, he ain't much in my eyes...the whole thing makes me think of that old analogy of the ring Plato wrote about...you can get away with lots of crap, but what is the point if your center ain't there...congrats Lance...you finally beat the having no dad and growing up poor deal and all of that hysterical bs...hey, if He can live with that via his own self and ripping off the public...I certainly can...it is his to deal with...

 

[Aleajactaest]

Some people expect access.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-head-expects-sharing-of-armstrong-evidence

The best they can get is access to the evidence but not the GJ testimony. If they get that much.

 

[The Gnome]

Those who say "who cares if they dope, it's only a sport, it's not and cannot be a crime" are perhaps forgetting that professional sports are a multi-billion dollar industry and that you can make tons of money out of it. You aren't cheating people out of honour and pride, you're effectively cheating them out of lots of money. There's a reason why sports fraud is a crime in many countries.

America these days my friend is about far bigger money than sporting fraud...this stuff is just for the average joe to get huffy about while the real crooks steal billions...this is simply entertainment...fair/unfair, be serious...noone at all cares about honest sports in america...hell, they don't even care about honest government or wars being started by lies...and trillions of dollars being shifted to different classes of crooks...to expect some sorta justice here from the entertainment realm is unreasonable...welcome to the terrordome...tickets cost a reasonable 15 bucks...

 

[Maxiton]

Pro cycling is definitely a "sport" worth watching -- it's fun and exciting.
The results, however, are utterly worthless.

Racked my brain for a bit trying to disagree, if only a little. Came up empty. Well, not entirely empty; cycling is in my view arguably cleaner than it has been for a long time. I think the last Tour was evidence of this. I just don't know if it will stay that way now.

Wait until you guys get to see the evidence USADA is going to receive! Some US cyclists are gonna be sheeting their pants. And not the big names that ride international. This is finally going to get good. Oh, don't expect Lance to get any of it - there is nothing there...

Is this going to happen on a Tuesday by any chance?

I curse the day americans began to interfere with cycling. They have perverted a beautiful thing.

That's just bigoted nonsense.

 

[scribe]

Some people expect access.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-head-expects-sharing-of-armstrong-evidence

The writers at Cycling News are still 'living a dream'.

It might take a little while, but they'll move on too.

 

[Greisty]

It is awesome watching so many heads explode simultaneously.

 

[Velodude]

The best they can get is access to the evidence but not the GJ testimony. If they get that much.

You are aware the GJ witnesses have been firstly interviewed by Federal investigators before their GJ appearances under oath?

The testimony before the GJ should only be a replication for the purpose of the GJ jurors to make an assessment on the evidence to make determinations on the indictments.

The Federal investigators' interview notes, transcript and video must align on Q&A with the witnesses' sworn GJ testimony otherwise the witnesses were capable of being indicted for lying to a Federal investigator.

 

[The Gnome]

reading that bonnie ford article it is actually sorta heartening to see someone dealing with reality and doing some actual journalism via mainstream media...actually, harsher than most sport writers here have dealt with ...I like the way she is not giving up on the actual evidence...but of course, noone will listen and lance will be see as a hero from this, a victim which he has always hysterically played and most likely will try to parley into some sorta political run...would not surprise me at this point if he really does run for some sorta political front...big money there, far more than mere biking...governor of texas would sound just find to lance I am sure...and this investigation, it's failure, will fit right into the story about big government beating up on the lil guy... ect ect ect...gonna be perfect...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If he still goes to politics, he´s done. Just look at the dirt war between the rep canditates for president.

That´s heavyweight. I can see spots in texas households. Even the dumbest hillbilly will see then what a a§§hole Pharmstrong is. Be sure all will be layed out about this disgusting doper.

I wish he´d run for gouverneur, but i think that possibilitie is also ruined by Floyd (& Tyler), like he spoiled his 2010-TdF.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

If he still goes to politics, he´s done. Just look at the dirt war between the rep canditates for president.

He couldn't make it at this point, even if he didn't have all the baggage of alleged lies. He would be too much of a noob politician. He knows nothing of politics, economics, etc to be trusted with that kind of responsibility. He COULD start out as a state representative, get some experience, then move on to senator or governor. But that would take quite some time for him to develop. But since he is carrying all that baggage, who in their right mind would trust him?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Since the investigation has been dropped, the UCI's Paddy is dancing in the streets so to speak. He couldn't be happier. But the WADA does not sound like they are ready to bury the hatchet. At least they are open to looking at any information the investigation may have uncovered from a doping perspective. But unless there is some significant proof it will go nowhere. I think it will end up as a dead end, just like the investigation.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

... who in their right mind would trust him?

All the hillbillies of course. Just read some posts here or worse at espn etc.! It would really need a dirty war with TV-Spots to wake some of them up.

His ego wouldn´t allow him to start as backbencher. Didn´t Arnie start politics at at the highest level? I think Pharmstrong thinks that he is better than some european bodybuilder. Anyway, his career in politics is ruined anyway thanks to Floyd.

 

[Maxiton]

If he still goes to politics, he´s done. Just look at the dirt war between the rep canditates for president.

That´s heavyweight. I can see spots in texas households. Even the dumbest hillbilly will see then what a a§§hole Pharmstrong is. Be sure all will be layed out about this disgusting doper.

I wish he´d run for gouverneur, but i think that possibilitie is also ruined by Floyd (& Tyler), like he spoiled his 2010-TdF.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Armstrong run for Texas governor, at some point. If he does, he'll win. You think all the recent contretemps will be an issue? I don't. I think it'll fade and stay faded.

After a term or two as governor, everyone's favorite cancer fighter could run for president. Now there's a prospect for you! Think it can't happen? George W. lowered the bar so far that now virtually anybody looks like a viable candidate. And I can see LA pulling it off. He'll hire Novitsky as his personal errand boy. The artist formerly known as Race Radio will be Novitsky's file clerk. Tyler Hamilton will defect to Cuba.

 

[DirtyWorks]

He couldn't make it at this point, even if he didn't have all the baggage of alleged lies. He would be too much of a noob politician. He knows nothing of politics, economics, etc to be trusted with that kind of responsibility. He COULD start out as a state representative, get some experience, then move on to senator or governor. But that would take quite some time for him to develop. But since he is carrying all that baggage, who in their right mind would trust him?

Nonsense! GWB, old #43 is the model.
-There's the talent in front of the cameras and then there's the management team. (#43 had Cheney)
-The core of #43's team were all senior Nixon appointees. Few, if any, gave the fact the dirtiest team in politics was running the #43 show a moment's consideration when they voted.

What's ACTUALLY missing is someone from inside politics choosing Wonderboy and giving him a try in some State election. They provide the machine, Wonderboy's the actor. That's Tailwind in a nut shell.

Yes, Arnie started as California Governor. But some say marrying into a political family was another calculated move on his part as preparation and leverage to enter politics. The guy is a sociopath. Like Wonderboy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076578/ Steroids much?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Armstrong run for Texas governor, at some point. If he does, he'll win. You think all the recent contretemps will be an issue? I don't. I think it'll fade and stay faded.

After a term or two as governor, everyone's favorite cancer fighter could run for president. Now there's a prospect for you! Think it can't happen? George W. lowered the bar so far that now virtually anybody looks like a viable candidate. And I can see LA pulling it off. He'll hire Novitsky as his personal errand boy. The artist formerly known as Race Radio will be Novitsky's file clerk. Tyler Hamilton will defect to Cuba.

No so easy. When canditates inside their own party try to destroy each other, what you think will happen when he runs against the "democrat" canditate? Hell will break loose. Everything on the table. No need for affidavits or verdicts or whatever. Just some documents in TV and Pharmstrong is done. Let him run for gouverneur, nothing better can happen for us so-called "haters" (speak people with integrity).

 

[Maxiton]

No so easy. When canditates inside their own party try to destroy each other, what you think will happen when he runs against the "democrat" canditate? Hell will break loose. Everything on the table. No need for affidavits or verdicts or whatever. Just some documents in TV and Pharmstrong is done. Let him run for gouverneur, nothing better can happen for us so-called "haters" (speak people with integrity).

Nonsense! GWB, old #43 is the model.
-There's the talent in front of the cameras and then there's the management team. (#43 had Cheney)
-The core of #43's team were all senior Nixon appointees. Few, if any, gave the fact the dirtiest team in politics was running the #43 show a moment's consideration when they voted.

What's ACTUALLY missing is someone from inside politics choosing Wonderboy and giving him a try in some State election. They provide the machine, Wonderboy's the actor. That's Tailwind in a nut shell.

Yes, Arnie started as California Governor. But some say marrying into a political family was another calculated move on his part as preparation and leverage to enter politics. The guy is a sociopath. Like Wonderboy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076578/ Steroids much?

DirtyWorks response appeared just in time to answer your question, Foxy, as if by magic. Believe me, all these politicians have skeletons in their closet (some, literally! ) that never get mentioned in campaigns. The campaigns look rough-and-tumble, but, as DirtyWorks says, if you have the machine behind you all things are possible, so long as you do your part. And Armstrong is the perfect machine animal. You thought he had a compelling story as a cycling hero? Just wait til they run him for president!

 

[Yeahright]

Truth and evidence have been rendered irrelevant in the US now? How long before this is stated officially? It's about who you know, and how much you can pay them.

A big mountain of evidence and witnesses who pretty put their lives at stake to not perjure themselves. Some who obviously did anyways, taking evven greater risks. And what do the feds do? They get "confused" and can't find an opening for a case. They could presecute LA for at least a dozen of individual alleged facts, and can't come up with a plan. So they give up. Uhuh.

Perhaps it's all part of the 2012 thing. People to get increasingly aware of the world they live in. Get sick of the lies being told by them. The tipping point is less than a year away, from there it will get better rather than worse.

So much speculation and baseless innuendo in your statement that I don't know where to begin. Suffice to say that 'beyond reasonable doubt' is the test and they obviously felt they could not reach that with the evidence they had. As the for the witnesses, LA's team would have wiped the floor with witnesses who are essentially confessed cheats and liars, not a good starting point for a prosecution.

The pain for you will diminish over time.

 

[Yeahright]

Since the investigation has been dropped, the UCI's Paddy is dancing in the streets so to speak. He couldn't be happier. But the WADA does not sound like they are ready to bury the hatchet. At least they are open to looking at any information the investigation may have uncovered from a doping perspective. But unless there is some significant proof it will go nowhere. I think it will end up as a dead end, just like the investigation.

I agree and WADA have shown in the past, at least in relation to Armstrong that the only place they bury the hatchet is in their own foot.

 

[peterst6906]

Let him run for gouverneur, nothing better can happen for us so-called "haters" (speak people with integrity).

I'm not so sure speaking with integrity is possible at the moment. The thread seems to have degenerated into little more than vile diatribe over the last few pages.

It started off well, but now it's back on familiar territory and unfortunately there doesn't appear to be too much integrity in it.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I'm not so sure speaking with integrity is possible at the moment. The thread seems to have degenerated into little more than vile diatribe over the last few pages.

It started off well, but now it's back on familiar territory and unfortunately there doesn't appear to be too much integrity in it.

Oh, there is someone angry that we didn´t convert to blind fanboys like you people hoped for. Bad luck for you, uhh?

You think some 100-post fanboys of which 80 is showing love to "Wonderboy" means credibility? Epic fail!

 

[Race Radio]

If Armstrong loses the USADA case, Ferrari ends up in Prison, Brunyeel is exposed......did Armstrong really win? There are few rational people who still think he won clean. The flood of testimony from former teammates is only going to increase with the USADA case.

Yes, he dodged prison but at the cost of millions of $$$ in legal fees, a reputation in tatters, and the prospect of loosing one, or more, of his Tour victories. That is Charlie Sheen style "winning"

 

[python]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...rs-to-hand-over-US-Postal-files-to-USADA.aspx

thanks zam...somehow, this critical piece of news got buried.

pelkey's article pointing to how usada can obtain the gj evidence and wada clarifying the path are the clearest signals that it is NOT over.

would wada even bother commenting on the evidence availability if it was unsure ? the intuitive answer is it would be highly uncharacteristic of wada.

someone burped that usada may go after rock racing.

again, i doubt tygart would bother to time his statement of the case 'continuity' withe official announcement of 'discontinuity'.

besides, somehow many forgot that usada and wada ALREADY have most of the circumstantial evidence as they worked hand in hand with novi.

let's reload on pop corn.

 

[Yeahright]

What is also interesting is that the investigation was halted without coming to its conclusion - i.e. there was other business still in hand. United States Attorney Andre Birotte Jr called a stop before Novitsky had finished.

Isn't this a bit strange? And the rumours that Novitsky et al only heard shortly before the announcement? That there wasn't a long, difficult meeting between all investigating parties, before they came to this conclusion?

Look a bit deeper. See who put forward Birotte's name to become attorney. See what she's interested in. Here's a clue: >> A. Clue <<

Oh, and did you happen to see the PR stuff just a couple of days ago?

>> Philanthropic LA <<

Mate, at the end of the day Novitsky had 2 years to come up with a credible primae facie case and plenty of resource to do just that. Okay he was on a bit of a hiding with his main witnesses being either confessed liars or flakes but he still had plenty of opportunity to produce plenty of other damning evidence if it was there. If you can't get an indictment after two years then you are either incompetent (which I am sure Novitsky isn't) or the evidence is not there, despite what RR and Hog etc. have spent two years telling us ad- nauseum.

You infer that it was not about the evidence but rather about political interference. That may or may not be the case but given that much of the evidence will be publicly available to other parties it would be a dangerous game to play.

Now you are playing the conspiracy card which really is all you have left other than the moral outrage card that others have already played. I hope that rather than continue with this nonsense you will move on, forget Lance and focus on the new era of cycling.

The funny part for me is that on many topics I actually agree with RR and others, particularly in relation to the UCI but the Lance case was always a no brainer.