US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[aphronesis]

Frankly, he's right. And funny. It's a devastating combination.

Name checking aside, it's hard to think of someone who has been more consistently and spectacularly wrong. On the topic of self-awareness.....

It is true that scatological humor is a little more difficult than punning.

If that's your thing.

So, 200 some pages about a federal case that doesn't exist? With you weighing in frequently in recent days? You're right, Tilford is hugely relevant.

It is a good thing that he rehearsed the common sense perspective.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, but you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. From what I know about your background you probably think incarceration is the answer to all mistakes. I am here to say that perhaps working thru the issue while being aware of your shortcoming is the best way to become a better person. I think a probation period would be good for this relatively minor offense.

If you want to talk I am here for you.

Moving on, hopefully somewhere in his blog he writes that he was just kidding about this:



I cannot find it. If he was only kidding about not knowing about it after being this 20 year cycling guru fanatic, along with just discovering the gossip about LA, then he should work some emoticons into his blog posting. I know I forget to sometimes and people take me wrong, so I do not wish to throw stones in my glass house here.

Anyway, take care and I will see you in 24 hours. Bye.

I'm posting while on appeal.

I’ve had the “pleasure” to listen to Greg Lemond, and his wife Kathy, talk candidly about their experiences with Lance and his posse. Some of the stuff has been published, most of it not. At the time, most of the stuff seemed almost impossible to believe.

Hmmmm, what to make of this lingering Tilford doubt....

I’ve seen Frankie Andreu a few times the last few years. Frankie is a great guy. A Midwestern guy. I would never think of talking to him about any of his experiences with the whole thing.

Hmmm, he would never think of talking to Frankie about his experiences... very troubling Chris, very troubling....

I felt badly reading the last statement she wrote – If I can add, I know to the majority of VeloNews readers I’m despised.

OMG.. Tilford felt badly for Betsy. I wonder why he's just now feeling badly for the way Betsy feels and has been treated???

The plot thickens....

She is under the impression that the “majority of VeloNews readers” despise her. I hope that isn’t true, but it really doesn’t matter, it is her belief. And that belief makes her feel like an outcast in a sport that her husband has based most of his life participating in. That is sad.

More 'evidence' that Tilford didn't know that people treated Betsy in such a vile manner because she refused to Lie for Lance.

Oh,... the horror of it all.

I was looking for something on google and came upon this exchange between Frankie and Jonathan Vaughters, the owner, czar of the Garmin Team. I don’t think I ever saw this before.

Oh no.........

And then.....

What is weird is how these guys talk about getting on the wrong side of the Lance. As if it’s matter of fact that it isn’t a good thing to have happen to you.

But....that's....not....new, is it?

I have no personal experience in any of this.

and,

I am sick of the whole thing really.

and..........

I kind of wish it would just disappear and we could just write it off as a dark era of the sport.

Ima gonna go out on a limb here and take a wild guess that Tilford has not been following the Lance drama all that closely. Too busy winning national championships and stuff.

But hey, it's just a guess.

 

[Anonymous]

Name checking aside, it's hard to think of someone who has been more consistently and spectacularly wrong. On the topic of self-awareness.....

It is true that scatological humor is a little more difficult than punning.

If that's your thing.

So, 200 some pages about a federal case that doesn't exist? With you weighing in frequently in recent days? You're right, Tilford is hugely relevant.

It is a good thing that he rehearsed the common sense perspective.

Name checking aside, it's hard to think of someone who has been more consistently and spectacularly wrong. On the topic of self-awareness.....

I think there are many who got it wrong. Including Birotte.

It is true that scatological humor is a little more difficult than punning.

If that's your thing.

Bathroom humor, in this case, is a perfect fit.

So, 200 some pages about a federal case that doesn't exist? With you weighing in frequently in recent days?

It's just entertainment.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-572077907195969915

 

[patricknd]

This is funny.

I made a comment that I didn't believe Tilford just ran across the PM (he of the infinite amount of cyclng wisdom). Yes, he just woke up and said "Golly, look at what all these people are saying about LA. Golly Gee!?!?!?".

Then, on top of that he took it without even doing any research about it and using it as "proof" of something.

I made no comment on what he thinks.

From that, we get a 5 page shytstorm lol.

The haters in here do not wish to address my point because they can't. If they say he is clueless, that flies in the face of his "cycling guru/insider" status. They don't want to touch my other points about the PM itself because I am right. Scoreboard.

They would rather call names and say "babble" and run the thread into the ditch then cry foul. SSDD, as Polish would say.

I made a comment the other week about how I wanted this to go to trial to prove me right (ie this wouldn't fly with an American jury). But, the case being dropped is worth its weight in gold. The haters in here have become more unhinged than ever. Classic.

i was laughing my *** off at work this afternoon reading all this. a couple of times i was tempted to log in and say something but i was afraid i **** up the flow.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Hey!
Where is Glenn__?

 

[aphronesis]

I think there are many who got it wrong. Including Birotte.



Bathroom humor, in this case, is a perfect fit.



It's just entertainment.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-572077907195969915

On your reply to Chris above, do you really believe that everyone who publishes (in blogs or otherwise) writes exactly what they think and feel about a give topic--in real time? That's pretty naive.

What you cite as "evidence" up there is not. It is open to interpretation and yours is not that complex.

Sure, it's just entertainment: always the out. Take an argumentative position on most issues, but then duck the difficult questions.

So what exactly did Birotte "get wrong"?

 

[ChrisE]

Whoa, wait a second.

I thought we agreed Tilford wasn't clueless about the subject? You wrote this:

Saying Tilford is clueless would be as stupid as saying your posts are not designed to get a response

Then you pull stuff out of his blog that shows he is clueless, which would excuse him for not knowing about the PM.

Maybe we should start over....I thought we were taking baby steps here but it seems as though we have taken some backward steps. It happens, I know.

Let's establish whether Tilford is clueless about the subject of LA doping and the rumurs and players around this whole issue. If he is, and you can make a convincing argument, then RR can stop holding him up as somebody whose opinion we should give a rats azz about and I can perhaps concede that he didn't know about it.

If he is not clueless, then you are back to square one with your catch 22 about not knowing about the PM. Deal? Great.

Vote (1) for clueless and (2) for not clueless. Then we can go from there. Thanks.

 

[patricknd]

Hey!
Where is Glenn__?

i don't know, i'm worried. that **** today was classic.

and why did they drop the case? (on topic)

 

[Anonymous]

On your reply to Chris above, do you really believe that everyone who publishes (in blogs or otherwise) writes exactly what they think and feel about a give topic--in real time? That's pretty naive.

What you cite as "evidence" up there is not. It is open to interpretation and yours is not that complex.

Sure, it's just entertainment: always the out. Take an argumentative position on most issues, but then duck the difficult questions.

So what exactly did Birotte "get wrong"?

On your reply to Chris above, do you really believe that everyone who publishes (in blogs or otherwise) writes exactly what they think and feel about a give topic--in real time? That's pretty naive.

In Tilford's case he probably just puts up a bunch of crap. He's known to be pretty edgy like that.

What you cite as "evidence" up there is not. It is open to interpretation and yours is not that complex.

Hey man,, you are right. I don't know what's in his heart. He probably lied every word

Sure, it's just entertainment: always the out.

Yep. When it ceases to be then I don't post. See how that works?

but then duck the difficult questions.

Care to expand on which difficult questions I have ducked on this or any other thread on this forum? Put up or shut up? Fair enough?

So what exactly did Birotte "get wrong"?

My opinion? Not listening to at least some of his underlings (from reported news) and proceeding with the prosecution of the case.

Perhaps you had not heard that decision to be somewhat controversial?

 

[aphronesis]

Hey man,, you are right. I don't know what's in his heart. He probably lied every word

Fair enough, I'll get back to you with the questions as I need to go back through the thread.

But to the above: are those the only alternatives? He's a stand-up guy calling it exactly like it is or he's lying outright? Really? You're trying to tell me those are the only possible responses?

You don't think the decision to go forward would have been equally controversial, very difficult and unpopular?

 

[Anonymous]

Whoa, wait a second.

I thought we agreed Tilford wasn't clueless about the subject? You wrote this:



Then you pull stuff out of his blog that shows he is clueless, which would excuse him for not knowing about the PM.

Maybe we should start over....I thought we were taking baby steps here but it seems as though we have taken some backward steps. It happens, I know.

Let's establish whether Tilford is clueless about the subject of LA doping and the rumurs and players around this whole issue. If he is, and you can make a convincing argument, then RR can stop holding him up as somebody whose opinion we should give a rats azz about and I can perhaps concede that he didn't know about it.

If he is not clueless, then you are back to square one with your catch 22 about not knowing about the PM. Deal? Great.

Vote (1) for clueless and (2) for not clueless. Then we can go from there. Thanks.

You should be more specific. Only you know what you are talking about.

Let's establish whether Tilford is clueless about the subject of LA doping and the rumurs and players around this whole issue.

Define "clueless"? Clueless as in he hasn't a clue about LA's doping (allegedly), or "clueless" as in he doesn't ever remember seeing the JV/FA back-and-forth?

Is it possible Tilford is not aware of every factoid and rumor surrounding Lance and the doping/federal investigation? Maybe Tilford knows much of the broad strokes but not all of the details?

Thanks in advance for your definition and answers. It will help me answer you more satisfactorily.

 

[Velodude]

Ok so from my statement you're going to choose to argue over "backdated TUE" versus "backdated prescription". I'll leave you to it.

No. You were using an analogy, which you flawed, to justify the knowledge of the IM between Andreu and Vaughters had the same public awareness as Armstrong's (backdated) TUE.

You discredit your analogy familiarity argument if you use erroneous important facts in the comparative example you claim is well recognized by the public.

TUE's cannot be backdated. The Code calls from them to be provided in advance and held by authorities.

There is no provision in the Code for a prescription to substitute for a TUE. But seeing a prescription is not held or required to be held in advance by an authority there is scope for mischief to present a "backdated" prescription.

Particularly under circumstances when Armstrong had a few days prior but after the 1999 prologue, that gave rise to the then unreported positive, claimed he has not taken any medications since 1997.

Armstrong failed a doping test in 1999. If USADA and WADA can have the statute of limitations set aside that test will count as an analytical positive. The Armstrong/Postal/UCI prescription cover up would not be a defense against an AAF.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair enough, I'll get back to you with the questions as I need to go back through the thread.

But to the above: are those the only alternatives? He's a stand-up guy calling it exactly like it is or he's lying outright? Really? You're trying to tell me those are the only possible responses?

You don't think the decision to go forward would have been equally controversial, very difficult and unpopular?

You're trying to tell me those are the only possible responses?

Ok, I'm now bored.

You don't think the decision to go forward would have been equally controversial, very difficult and unpopular?

Difficult and unpopular? Should that be our standard of justice?

 

[Frigo's Napsack]

I can't help but chime in here. America can't afford to be wasting money o stuff like this investigation, foreign aid or NPR. Get rid of this stuff and we will balance the budget.

There is no question that this is a baseless investigation. Lance has never ever tested positive and if he was on drugs, you would think that some witness would come forward and spill the beans. There are no positive test results and no witnesses. Just a lot of hard work by a great and talented Athlete.

 

[aphronesis]

Ok, I'm now bored.



Difficult and unpopular? Should that be our standard of justice?

That makes at least two of us.



Remind me again how justice is defined in in this cluster of evens? Betsy is publicly vindicated? Floyd gets support for the Qui Tam case? Simeoni has peace? The bad banker men get prosecuted for low-level fraud. The USPS gets a new lease on life?

Lance is broke? Livestrong folds from the scandal?

Which of those is on the agenda of the US govt?

 

[ChrisE]

You should be more specific. Only you know what you are talking about.



Define "clueless"? Clueless as in he hasn't a clue about LA's doping (allegedly), or "clueless" as in he doesn't ever remember seeing the JV/FA back-and-forth?

Is it possible Tilford is not aware of every factoid and rumor surrounding Lance and the doping/federal investigation? Maybe Tilford knows much of the broad strokes but not all of the details?

Thanks in advance for your definition and answers. It will help me answer you more satisfactorily.

I wrote it was unbelievable that he didn't know about the PM if he was this life long cycling guru that you and RR speak of, ie not clueless. That is what started the last 12 hour food fight. You chimed in about how he was not clueless which further reinforced what I contended. Now you are crawfishing.

Now you tell me I should have been more specific?

Were you perhaps under the impression I was accusing him of being clueless of his birthday? The capital of the US? Personal hygene?

I would be surprised if even mewmew, benotti, or any of other chicken littles in here believe you now, though I know they would never admit it out of respect for solidarity.

Hey to help you save face, I am all for dropping this diversion from the important things in this thread, like mewmew complaining about drive-bys and Velodude trying to figure out how SCA will be LA's Waterloo. Speaking of which, where is RR? He is about due to fly in here and drop some "fanboy" and "babble" bombs to get things back on track.....

 

[Spider1964]

I can't help but chime in here. America can't afford to be wasting money o stuff like this investigation, foreign aid or NPR. Get rid of this stuff and we will balance the budget.

There is no question that this is a baseless investigation. Lance has never ever tested positive and if he was on drugs, you would think that some witness would come forward and spill the beans. There are no positive test results and no witnesses. Just a lot of hard work by a great and talented Athlete.

Mmmm.. now where have I heard this before?

Google is your friend.

You forgot... Witch-hunt... Smearjob... SSDD etc. But I'm sure you're up with all that.. having read the whole thread prior to posting?

 

[Anonymous]

That makes at least two of us.



Remind me again how justice is defined in in this cluster of evens? Betsy is publicly vindicated? Floyd gets support for the Qui Tam case? Simeoni has peace? The bad banker men get prosecuted for low-level fraud. The USPS gets a new lease on life?

Lance is broke? Livestrong folds from the scandal?

Which of those is on the agenda of the US govt?

I'd like to think the bad guys generally get what's coming to them. Except when political pressure is brought by wealthy defendants, which happens.

Then justice can be purchased. Yay.

 

[Anonymous]

I wrote it was unbelievable that he didn't know about the PM if he was this life long cycling guru that you and RR speak of, ie not clueless. That is what started the last 12 hour food fight. You chimed in about how he was not clueless which further reinforced what I contended. Now you are crawfishing.

Now you tell me I should have been more specific?

Were you perhaps under the impression I was accusing him of being clueless of his birthday? The capital of the US? Personal hygene?

I would be surprised if even mewmew, benotti, or any of other chicken littles in here believe you now, though I know they would never admit it out of respect for solidarity.

Hey to help you save face, I am all for dropping this diversion from the important things in this thread, like mewmew complaining about drive-bys and Velodude trying to figure out how SCA will be LA's Waterloo. Speaking of which, where is RR? He is about due to fly in here and drop some "fanboy" and "babble" bombs to get things back on track.....

Like I said, at least you knew what you were talking about. You got your 12 hour fight.

It's what you wanted, right?

No saving face for me.... you troll the thread calling out one of my hero's and I'll likely fall for it again tomorrow. It's just how I roll.

 

[ChrisE]

Mmmm.. now where have I heard this before?

Google is your friend.

You forgot... Witch-hunt... Smearjob... SSDD etc. But I'm sure you're up with all that.. having read the whole thread prior to posting?

Debate the post, don't insult the poster.

If you can't see the relationship between this LA stuff and foreign aid then you have not been paying attention.

 

[ChrisE]

Like I said, at least you knew what you were talking about. You got your 12 hour fight.

It's what you wanted, right?

No saving face for me.... you troll the thread calling out one of my hero's and I'll likely fall for it again tomorrow. It's just how I roll.

OK. Perhaps when RR holds somebody up as some guru who has an opinion about the subject of this thread, then he can take care it is not just some willfully ignorant yahoo with a blog that happens to ride a bike.

 

[Race Radio]

I can't help but chime in here. America can't afford to be wasting money o stuff like this investigation, foreign aid or NPR. Get rid of this stuff and we will balance the budget.

There is no question that this is a baseless investigation. Lance has never ever tested positive and if he was on drugs, you would think that some witness would come forward and spill the beans. There are no positive test results and no witnesses. Just a lot of hard work by a great and talented Athlete.

Just when I thought the pipes could not get any more clogged.....

 

[Velodude]

I can't help but chime in here. America can't afford to be wasting money o stuff like this investigation, foreign aid or NPR. Get rid of this stuff and we will balance the budget.

There is no question that this is a baseless investigation. Lance has never ever tested positive and if he was on drugs, you would think that some witness would come forward and spill the beans. There are no positive test results and no witnesses. Just a lot of hard work by a great and talented Athlete.

There are witnesses and there are "covered up" positive test results.

 

[Stingray34]

SHUT IT DOWN

 

[Hugh Januss]

I can't help but chime in here. America can't afford to be wasting money o stuff like this investigation, foreign aid or NPR. Get rid of this stuff and we will balance the budget.

There is no question that this is a baseless investigation. Lance has never ever tested positive and if he was on drugs, you would think that some witness would come forward and spill the beans. There are no positive test results and no witnesses. Just a lot of hard work by a great and talented Athlete.

I guess we are done here, FN has it all figured out.