USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[Race Radio]

Thank you RR, but that is only the banning letter. No evidence yet. My personal belief is that the ban of itself does little or no good. It is my hope that the evidence will give us the catharsis we need to really begin putting this behind us.

Don't worry, we will see a lot of evidence

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

Thank you RR, but that is only the banning letter. No evidence yet. My personal belief is that the ban of itself does little or no good. It is my hope that the evidence will give us the catharsis we need to really begin putting this behind us.

That is said at every stage of the armstrong case. but it only gets more bitter and more divisive.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

If you knew what Armstrong has done all his career, a jail might be considered to good for him by some.

I dont understand how people come in here pretending they dont know the extent of the doping never mind the abusive, bully behaviour Armstrong has committed on people like Betsy Andreu, Emma O'Reilly and Mike Anderson to name but a few.

what's happened to armstrong over the last year and now with the USADA decision is way worse than anything that has happened to those individuals. that you think he should receive even more punishment is very vindictive. he is a human being. what kind of person do you want to be?

do people want to see him dead? is that where this is going?

 

[argyllflyer]

Just reading Freddy's post, the problem with the BBC is their complete lack of expertise when it comes to sports like cycling. Their presenters know nothing, their editors know nothing. Until something 100% definite is spelled out about LA's fate, almost anyone they wheel out will speak with audible reservation.

 

[argyllflyer]

what's happened to armstrong over the last year and now with the USADA decision is way worse than anything that has happened to those individuals. that you think he should receive even more punishment is very vindictive. he is a human being. what kind of person do you want to be?

do people want to see him dead? is that where this is going?

He is utterly vile and to be honest, deserves everything he gets.

Bullies deserve the most humiliating of come-uppances.

 

[COMO CYCO]

Frustrated

Many stories emerged yesterday regarding the tight-lipped responses of the majority of pros both at the Vuelta and the Pro Tour Challenge. This is understandable. In my profession, I would never publicly deride a colleague or former colleague no matter how much of an amoral, thieving a**hole I thought they were. And for the younger generation of cyclists - they want the focus of attention on what they are trying to do - not on the past. Fine. Check.

But what I am BEYOND frustrated about is the complete lack of backlash from the public on Armstrong. Consider:

1) Livestrong donations were up 25X yesterday over the previous day.

2) He is racing today in a mountain bike race where he will no doubt be cheered on.

3) Spectators at the Pro Tour Challenge were holding "Free Lance" signs.

4) This video polling opinions at the Pro Tour - all angry with USADA: http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-c...usa-pro-challenge-2012#/video/all/created/d/1

5) He's not lost a single sponsorship dollar.

I used to think that once USADA acted, LA would finally be seen for what he is by the majority. Didn't happen. Then I thought, well maybe if USADA releases the evidence, people will wake up. That won't happen either. I think USADA could come out with photographs of him torturing puppies and he will still be adored, and Nike will design a new shoe for him to kick dogs' head in.

Like I said in an earlier post in the USADA phase I thread, he's just a man. A man who has cleverly duped millions into believing he's a saint. But he is no more to blame for that than the stupidity of the millions who have allowed themselves to be duped, quite honestly. I fear that I'm never going to be satisfied with this outcome.

Sorry for the rant. Thanks ever to everyone in the Clinic. Despite my blinding frustration, it has become a place of refuge....

 

[Cozy Beehive]

@Race Radio. Thanks for your analysis and insider insights.

Two questions -

1) If I have heard correctly, Tygart has indicated that over time, the information they have collected will be gradually released to the public. Do we know when this will be done and how much time this will take?

2) Has USADA released their "overwhelming" evidence to the UCI yet. Given that Lance has friends in high places, how do you think UCI will act? The most important question is - who will ensure that UCI is held accountable to make a decision in a suitable timeframe , that they do not just sit over it and do nothing?

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

He is utterly vile and to be honest, deserves everything he gets.

Bullies deserve the most humiliating of come-uppances.

dead it is then?

 

[gjdavis60]

do people want to see him dead? is that where this is going?

I'm afraid martyrs don't get to live. Not even Lance. He should have read the fine print.

 

[Freddythefrog]

dead it is then?

Graham was hanging by a rope from a tree. Somebody cut him down just in time. The BBC couldn't get him off air quickly enough yesterday. Much better to keep on getting complete Omerta clowns like Martin de Bruin on as the "expert", to calm us all down and tell us "children were being nasty to Lance". It is not Lance it is the whole darned show. "Put it behind us" a poster suggests. I sincerely hope not. Let's hope it is put right in front of us and it blocks the road.

 

[Freddythefrog]

How long does Brotherton need ?

Just reading Freddy's post, the problem with the BBC is their complete lack of expertise when it comes to sports like cycling. Their presenters know nothing, their editors know nothing.

Simon Brotherton has spent 1 month of every year on holiday in France for 15 years now. He was there before the Lance years. He was reporting during the Festina scandal. How long does he need? The answer is that he will never learn. These guys, like Ligget and Sherwen are every much part of the problem as Pat is or Hein was. they won't learn because they know that they do not want to look. They are entirely the wrong people to be doing their jobs. These are fan-boys who have never grown up.

 

[JA.Tri]

Thanks* for the Sally Jenkins' WP story.

(Edit: I forgot ta for that Wilcockson "story"! What a piece of apologetic non-denial that was.)

What a piece of self-serving, spin-doctored hogwash!

I had learnt much from QStepper...ta...but:

as per TFF/Chewie's post above (and others), the bit about all the dopers deserving equality of punishment. What twaddle. A lawyer with extensive Federal Court experience, promulgating such???

As has been suggested many times:

LA was offered an opportunity to participate
LA chose to refuse participation
Individuals volunteered and/or agreed to participate
Individuals that agree to assist in investigations are often allowed dispensation for such assistance
USADA/WADA code specifically allows for dispensation/reduction in sanctions.


* my thanks for the links is genuine. I believe it is important to have the whole story...even the spin from those with opposing views to mine

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.nydailynews.com/broadway-article-1.1144271

Wonderboy is not allowed to run the NYC Marathon either.

 

[Cavalier]

I spent the better part of tonight writing this up. If you get the chance, have a read through it - I know I missed some stuff, so if you can think of something I omitted, let me know, and I'll edit it in if it's relevant. But if you agree with it, every chance you get, send a Lance worshipper to read it. Slowly but surely, we can stop falsification. Retweet it, facebook it, post it on forums. 60% of people believing in Lance polls is far too high, and it's only through misinformation that they do so.

It's not about the bike. It is about the behaviour and the drugs. A truthful look at Armstrong's history: http://tmblr.co/ZDdCpuS6QClQ

 

[JA.Tri]

what's happened to armstrong over the last year and now with the USADA decision is way worse than anything that has happened to those individuals. that you think he should receive even more punishment is very vindictive. he is a human being. what kind of person do you want to be?

do people want to see him dead? is that where this is going?

Do some research please!

If LA was visited by half the grief he has delivered to others, he would be in a truly dark place (at least). There is no way LA will be the recipient of anywhere near that amount of grief in his entire life.

That's the irony of such matters. The wrong doer rarely if ever is on the receiving end of the distress that they have meted out on others. Also he seems unlikely to express remorse or genuine contrition for the ill he has done others...as for recompense...NOT bloody likely.

 

[thehog]

I spent the better part of tonight writing this up. If you get the chance, have a read through it - I know I missed some stuff, so if you can think of something I omitted, let me know, and I'll edit it in if it's relevant. But if you agree with it, every chance you get, send a Lance worshipper to read it. Slowly but surely, we can stop falsification. Retweet it, facebook it, post it on forums. 60% of people believing in Lance polls is far too high, and it's only through misinformation that they do so.

It's not about the bike. It is about the behaviour and the drugs. A truthful look at Armstrong's history: http://tmblr.co/ZDdCpuS6QClQ

This is worthy of its on thread..

 

[Benotti69]

I spent the better part of tonight writing this up. If you get the chance, have a read through it - I know I missed some stuff, so if you can think of something I omitted, let me know, and I'll edit it in if it's relevant. But if you agree with it, every chance you get, send a Lance worshipper to read it. Slowly but surely, we can stop falsification. Retweet it, facebook it, post it on forums. 60% of people believing in Lance polls is far too high, and it's only through misinformation that they do so.

It's not about the bike. It is about the behaviour and the drugs. A truthful look at Armstrong's history: http://tmblr.co/ZDdCpuS6QClQ

"Armstrong famously got very ill in 2006" ???? 1996

apart from that pretty much spot on.

Lots more to add to it to be gleaned from the Clinic.

 

[Cavalier]

I thought there was enough threads devoted to him. We'll see what the discussion points are in the morning - if it warrants it I'll happily start it up.

@Benotti: Already adjusted and hyperlinks fixed. Going back and forth through everything led to that typo.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

The American people are responding, with their wallets

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...ees-78k-donations-25-times-greater-normal-day

 

[thehog]

The American people are responding, with their wallets

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...ees-78k-donations-25-times-greater-normal-day

I call a set up; "Here's 75k now go donate this on Friday".

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

Do some research please!

If LA was visited by half the grief he has delivered to others, he would be in a truly dark place (at least). There is no way LA will be the recipient of anywhere near that amount of grief in his entire life.

That's the irony of such matters. The wrong doer rarely if ever is on the receiving end of the distress that they have meted out on others. Also he seems unlikely to express remorse or genuine contrition for the ill he has done others...as for recompense...NOT bloody likely.

this is an absurd picture. i know all about armstrong. he is a highly strung character that did not react in the most professional of ways to people who tried to destroy his career by revealing information about him. perhaps knowing he has character defaults, he also has done a lot of good for people to offset this - more than everybody here combined. he also has a lot of friends in the sport, as you can see from the reactions from many people, so clearly he could be a nice guy as well. he is a very intelligent guy.

at what point do you end this cartoon character villian portrayal of armstrong? you really think, on top of the other punishment he has now received, he should go to jail for calling someone fat or trying to stop them writing doping articles about him? i think its time for you guys to move on, or you risk looking like a much bigger bully than the person you hate.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

I spent the better part of tonight writing this up. If you get the chance, have a read through it - I know I missed some stuff, so if you can think of something I omitted, let me know, and I'll edit it in if it's relevant. But if you agree with it, every chance you get, send a Lance worshipper to read it. Slowly but surely, we can stop falsification. Retweet it, facebook it, post it on forums. 60% of people believing in Lance polls is far too high, and it's only through misinformation that they do so.

It's not about the bike. It is about the behaviour and the drugs. A truthful look at Armstrong's history: http://tmblr.co/ZDdCpuS6QClQ

i prefered jonathan vaughter's article. you should read it. dopers are just people that had to make hard choices about whether they wanted to be competitive. their behavior should not be endorsed but they shouldn't be hated and demonized either.

I hope everyone in the public reads his article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/opinion/sunday/how-to-get-doping-out-of-sports.html?pagewanted=all

 

[henryg]

the also has a lot of friends in the sport, as you can see from the reactions from many people, so clearly he could be a nice guy as well.

I think you are confusing common interests with friendship. Contador is certainly not on friendly terms with Armstrong yet he has rushed to Armstrong's defense. It's not because he likes or even respects the guy. He's protecting the system that protects him.

Then you have all the guys on the Armstrong gravy train and have some business connection to Armstrong. They are the best friends money could buy.

Eliminate all those with a vested interest and you won't be left with many, if any.

 

[lactictac]

this is an absurd picture. i know all about armstrong. he is a highly strung character that did not react in the most professional of ways to people who tried to destroy his career by revealing information about him. perhaps knowing he has character defaults, he also has done a lot of good for people to offset this - more than everybody here combined. he also has a lot of friends in the sport, as you can see from the reactions from many people, so clearly he could be a nice guy as well. he is a very intelligent guy.

at what point do you end this cartoon character villian portrayal of armstrong? you really think, on top of the other punishment he has now received, he should go to jail for calling someone fat or trying to stop them writing doping articles about him? i think its time for you guys to move on, or you risk looking like a much bigger bully than the person you hate.

<><><><>

Absurd? Are you acquainted with the facts? With LA's demeanor? With the frauds he has perpetrated? Perpetrated against cancer patients too. He is a disgrace to cycling, to sports and to humanity. His defenders, apologists, are those who rode in LA's wake to make more money. The victims, the objective people, are en pointe. LA painted his own life with strokes of bulllying and deceit. We, the observers, do not direct his life. He himself authored his dynasty of deception and fraud. The door is now opened and we walk through it. La's behavior, over 2 decades, is shameful and no cartoon. You sir, Benkt, act like an ostrich. Take your head out of the ... "ground" ... and read, think and re-think the facts. Perhaps a quick review of the law might be beneficial too.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

I call a set up; "Here's 75k now go donate this on Friday".

You can call it whatever you want but from everything I have looked at in the mainstream, the American people are going to sweep this under the rug and support Lance (usually about 7/3 in favor reading the comments sections of the major news websites).