USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[thehog]

Did I hear right today? I think I heard a news report saying someone was tipping off Armstrong about drug tests. Is that right?

Keep up Junior.

Yes 20 minute warnings for tests along with police protection from Tour raids.

 

[TShame]

Lance's Greatest Ability

Apparently, Lance is the world's smartest man. Even Sherlock Holmes could not detect any of Lance's secret drug methods.

Scene for upcoming film: (based on today's article and its accusations)

Lance is sitting in his living room, smoking a pipe filled with steroids, hgh, and testosterone.

"About time for a workout. This way the press can't say I just jump on the bike and win races with drugs."

Johann: "I think you should go slower in the spring, then a bit faster in Switzerland. Make it look like you are slowly improving towards July."

The phone rings......"Oh hell, an unannounced doping control."

Lance "Johann, I need you to pee in this catheter. I just need enough to fill a dixie cup."

Johann "Should I get some clean blood from your jet?"

Lance "No, I have some in the down tube of my Madone."

Johann "Are you sure we should be doing all of this in front of the maid, the cook, and the gardener."

Lance "It's fine. Jose, the gardener is going to ride for us next year and the pool boy is going to make a great time trialist too."

Johann "Better practice your 'surprise' face. Last time you looked arrogant rather than shocked when the doping control guy came in."

Lance "Doping control. That's funny. How am I going to stop laughing. You are going to make me pee my shorts."

Johann "I'll make some more. Hand me that beer."

 

[Flux Capacity]

Keep up Junior.

Yes 20 minute warnings for tests along with police protection from Tour raids.

thanks

 

[COMO CYCO]

Ferarri wont tell us anything. Carmichael is an idiot and not worth listening too. Del Moral, Marti and Bruyneel are clams.

The riders have already talked about him in plenty of areas, JV, Frankie Andreu, Stephen Swart, Landis and Hamilton to name 5.

Others will talk in the future. No doubt George Hincapie will do a book.

I know this has probably been discussed before, so apologize for the likely redundancy - but has anyone discussed the possibility of Sheryl Crow coming forth with evidence? Or perhaps someone (Tygart) sought her out?

 

[Race Radio]

I know this has probably been discussed before, so apologize for the likely redundancy - but has anyone discussed the possibility of Sheryl Crow coming forth with evidence? Or perhaps someone (Tygart) sought her out?

Yes......She is willing and able

 

[COMO CYCO]

Yes......She is willing and able

Thanks RR - 'Able' certainly, but how do we know she is 'willing?' Is there anything out there to suggest that she was contacted by USADA, or others, or that she has provided testimony / observations?

I have distinct memories of her visiting LA during the Tour and them sharing a room together on rest days - exactly when the transfusions should have been administered. The US news media wouldn't leave it alone - fascinated by any star that would hang out with him (Robin Williams, Ben Stiller, etc). I seem to remember them parting on bad terms...she just seems to be the perfect potential witness.

 

[rhubroma]

Savoldelli's comments were comical. He knows what went on, says, essentially, that Armstrong is an asshòle, but concurs that the USADA investigation is a "witch-hunt."

Manu Cha comes into play..."too much hypocrisy, too much hycpocrisy, I told you once, I told you twice...the merry blues...the merry blues...I can not sleeep..."

 

[Animal]

Gaahhhhd! It's a battle on public forums. Non-sequiturs and statements of faith and quotes DIRECTLY from LA's press releases bandied round.

"What have you ever done?", "Never failed a test", "500 tests", "witch hunt", "hearsay" ad nauseam!


I try to keep plugging away. The truth will out.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Speaking as a fellow member of the bar, and as my wife loves to say, "I love a story with a happy ending."

Okay, that's funny.

 

[Pazuzu]

do people want to see him dead? is that where this is going?

No, but a confession and apology would be nice.














Armstrong would sooner die than do that.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Yes......She is willing and able

13 years of agony will hopefully come to an end, with evidence that is!

 

[D-Queued]

Picking apart the lies

Picking apart the lies:

The toll this has taken on my family... I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids...

Perhaps it is me, but is there an echo in the room:

ON 24 July 2005, Lance Armstrong... announced yesterday that he would retire after this summer's Tour de France, an event he has won a record six straight times.

Armstrong, 33, said he struggled with the decision but, in the end, wanted more time with his three young children.

Re-using the same script is such a transparent PR move, that underscores its insincerity when it has to be re-used after he has done exactly the opposite.

So he retires, has two more kids, and then comes back??? How is that a commitment to being with his three young children? (has more kids, and comes out of retirement...???)

Why, to get away from all of the kids?

Apparently tired of all his children, he announced his 'Hopeless Return' on 5 Mar 2009 with a follow up Press Conference in Las Vegas on 6 Mar 2009 - no kids present of course. (But Greg Lemond was there asking about what Ashenden had to say!)

This became the same Hopeless Return that yielded a high risk for doping blood profile and a 20 minute test avoidance and willful masking activity.

Just in case there was any confusion about Lance's priority ranking between his kids and winning, we have Lance blowing off his daughter who is holding his bronze medal at the Memorial Hermann 70.3 Ironman triathlon

Honestly, you just can't make this stuff up.

And before someone defends him by suggesting that he didn't realize people were watching (what, like there is no crowd?), Lance is a public person and his frequent public appearances underscore that he, of all people, should be fully aware of what he is doing in public. Moreover, that he is pretty familiar with doing press interviews right after gruelling athletic events. The finish line is Lance's stage.

And this is the performance that he consciously elected to provide:

Dave.

 

[krebs303]

Gaahhhhd! It's a battle on public forums. Non-sequiturs and statements of faith and quotes DIRECTLY from LA's press releases bandied round.

"What have you ever done?", "Never failed a test", "500 tests", "witch hunt", "hearsay" ad nauseam!


I try to keep plugging away. The truth will out.

I've been reading all the news item comments and keep reading the same talking points, most tested, 500 tests, hearsay, etc. I am looking for some short counter points to copy and paste in reply. My little puppy is very ill And my brain is not focusing well. So a little help is needed.
Just off the top my head I used these this morning

You have much to learn, Grasshopper

Eyewitness testimony is not hearsey.

Allegedly was tested more than 500 times. Maximum documented 236.

 

[elapid]

Are the UCI declaring their hand?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/cycling/usada-has-no-legal-right-to-strip-lance-armstrong/story-fn8sc2wz-1226458458001

Sydney's Phill Bates, a member of the international cycling union's arbitration tribunal, yesterday described USADA's actions against Armstrong as unenforceable and described the organisation's chief executive Travis Tygart as an "egomaniac publicity hunter".

"While Armstrong may have opted not to continue with his legal fight, USADA, a signatory to the WADA code, has no jurisdiction to punish or impose sanctions against any rider," Bates said.

"In addition, the Armstrong case also raises the legal issue of the meaning of article 17 of the WADA code, which imposes a limitation period of eight years for prosecuting doping cases. ...

"If USADA believes Armstrong has a case to answer, the ultimate judge should be the UCI, not a publicity-seeking chief executive hellbent on a witch-hunt to chop down the tallest poppy in our sport." ...

"Everything I've read of the USADA case has been driven by Tygart and against Armstrong built on hearsay evidence provided by a small group of riders who rode with him more than 12 years ago, and some of whom are still competing today.

"If Tygart and USADA believe otherwise, then why not make public the agency's findings and have them tested before the appropriate court?"

 

[D-Queued]

More evidence coming to light.

Apparently Lance had some pretty good masking agents:

Armstrong’s masking agents, USADA believes, were undetectable for years.

Dave.

 

[the big ring]

Are the UCI declaring their hand?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/cycling/usada-has-no-legal-right-to-strip-lance-armstrong/story-fn8sc2wz-1226458458001

My feelings about the UCI are already known, but this makes me ashamed to be an Australian.

Yuck.

 

[BillytheKid]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savoldelli-armstrong-made-enemies

Can't say I don't disagree with Savodelli.

There's class element to all this that seems to lost also.

If you look at the backgrounds of the known accusers aside from Landis. Armstrong came from a F@#$@% Up childhood in the south. His anger and his dirve came from that life, but what of his accusers?

Armstrong didn't event doping. The misfortune and temptation of the sport made that of him. Most where also doping and have received justice, but few of them faced 25 years and the juked up criminal case.

Still we are repsonsible for are own actions. It's just some will walk away scott free and some can never escape their class.

 

[Animal]

I've been reading all the news item comments and keep reading the same talking points, most tested, 500 tests, hearsay, etc. I am looking for some short counter points to copy and paste in reply. My little puppy is very ill And my brain is not focusing well. So a little help is needed.
Just off the top my head I used these this morning

You have much to learn, Grasshopper

Eyewitness testimony is not hearsey.

Allegedly was tested more than 500 times. Maximum documented 236.

The general public just do not understand that this is enforcement of rules, signed up to by an athlete. They do not understand the concept of getting a racing licence.

They think that the WHOLE THING is just "the media" attacking LA.

They actually DO NOT KNOW that there is a general antidoping agency sanctioning MANY athletes in order to try to keep sports safe for youngsters to try.

I post links to their sanctions page which lists all sanctions handed out and ask "Should we let all of them off too, or are they not big enough stars?"`: http://www.usada.org/sanctions/

Also, post a direct link to the sanction letter which mentions the evidence: http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-armstrong8242012

 

[Big Doopie]

More evidence coming to light.

Apparently Lance had some pretty good masking agents:

Armstrong’s masking agents, USADA believes, were undetectable for years.

Dave.

link doesn't seem to have anything on masking agents...? or did i skim past it?

however, i love this gem from betsy:

“Call me obsessive, but don’t ever call me a doormat.”

 

[PosterBill]

Picking apart the lies:

The toll this has taken on my family... I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids...

Perhaps it is me, but is there an echo in the room:

ON 24 July 2005, Lance Armstrong... announced yesterday that he would retire after this summer's Tour de France, an event he has won a record six straight times.

Armstrong, 33, said he struggled with the decision but, in the end, wanted more time with his three young children.



Dave.

Man no reason to jump into the muck when you've got the upperhand. We don't need to bring into question stupid sh$t like this with the upcoming evidence. Stick to the story brah

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Are the UCI declaring their hand?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/cycling/usada-has-no-legal-right-to-strip-lance-armstrong/story-fn8sc2wz-1226458458001

Sydney's Phill Bates, a member of the international cycling union's arbitration tribunal, yesterday described USADA's actions against Armstrong as unenforceable and described the organisation's chief executive Travis Tygart as an "egomaniac publicity hunter".

"While Armstrong may have opted not to continue with his legal fight, USADA, a signatory to the WADA code, has no jurisdiction to punish or impose sanctions against any rider," Bates said.

"In addition, the Armstrong case also raises the legal issue of the meaning of article 17 of the WADA code, which imposes a limitation period of eight years for prosecuting doping cases. ...

"If USADA believes Armstrong has a case to answer, the ultimate judge should be the UCI, not a publicity-seeking chief executive hellbent on a witch-hunt to chop down the tallest poppy in our sport." ...

"Everything I've read of the USADA case has been driven by Tygart and against Armstrong built on hearsay evidence provided by a small group of riders who rode with him more than 12 years ago, and some of whom are still competing today.

"If Tygart and USADA believe otherwise, then why not make public the agency's findings and have them tested before the appropriate court?"

Phil Bates will toe the line to Pat & Heinie, come what may. His livelihood is dependent on the UCI, so don't expect any different.

 

[hrotha]

What a tosser. USADA is the appropriate court. They can take them to CAS if they think the verdict isn't fair.

As noted, that's probably Pat & Hein testing the waters and fighting this by proxy.

 

[Hmmmmm]

No, you are entitled to all the evidence as soon as you are charged.

That allows BOTH sides to determine what the best course of action is to solve the alleged dispute. If the evidence is overwhelming, then most lawyers recommend cutting a deal. If the evidence is shoddy, most lawyers wind up fighting it.

Most cases do not end in a court room for precisely this reason.

And when we are talking about professional sports like cyclists are mophia hit men? Demanding that we place protections in that are put in place to protect those who are under legitimate death threats?

That is a pretty damb high standard.

And that fact that Lance haters will so willfully change the system, willfully misunderstand the process to get their white whale is deeply troubling.

This entire process reeks of vendetta rather than justice.

First of all, this was not leading to a criminal trial in a "court room". But, if it was, all the evidence does not need to be disclosed. Here is one of many sites that defines how the law works and what information needs to be disclosed and when ...

http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal-Law-Basics/Criminal-Law-Right-to-Evidence-Disclosure.html

 

[the asian]

What a tosser. USADA is the appropriate court. They can take them to CAS if they think the verdict isn't fair.

As noted, that's probably Pat & Hein testing the waters and fighting this by proxy.

Unless the IOC step up and say to UCI, you have to abide by USADA findings, otherwise you will be tossed out of the Olympics, this is what Pat & Hein would do.

 

[jackwolf]

Just in:

Obama: Armstrong Was 'Great American Hero'