USADA - Armstrong

[TubularBills]

It was the closest race in California history failing by less then 1%. I have no idea if its true that LAF donated 1.5MM but the tobacco lobby spent 50MM on a misinformation campaign designed to confuse voters. Support fell 20% after the misinformation campaign. Armstrong may be an idiot but the failure of prop 29 has nothing to do with his standing with the government.

Excellent support and insight into the spin and mechanics of politics. But don't forget that that the 1.5m wasn't intended to be anything more than smoke and mirrors to obscure a tainted past. i.e. lemming control 101/camouflage.

 

[TubularBills]

The key is for the "interests" to shut down the hearing without looking like its an inside job.

That will be hard. It would be unprecedented.

They achieved the stated with little trouble in abandoning the GJ, with apparently no blowback that I'm aware of... ?

 

[thehog]

They achieved the stated with little trouble in abandoning the GJ, with apparently no blowback that I'm aware of... ?

Travis Tygart, USADA's chief executive officer, said in a statement his agency was complying with the wishes of the review board.

The board "has expressed concern about the potential for intimidation and retaliation against USADA's witnesses and as part of their review, has asked USADA to only provide additional evidence of doping that is already in the public domain.

"USADA will continue to follow the established procedures that are compliant with federal law and were approved by athletes, the U.S. Olympic Committee, and all Olympic sports organizations."



http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/4597734/landis-and-hamilton-part-of-armstrong.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Merckx index]

I actually fear this will be the case. The evidence can be clear and unmistakeable, but that doesn't mean the case is closed. Wonderboy has been able to get out of scrapes in ways that would make Bill Clinton proud, and he may very well get out of this.

I think for once people are overestimating the pressure LA can bring to bear. If he’s going to get cleared in this manner, it will have to be right now. If the Review Board could somehow be pressured to drop the charges, I don’t think anyone would ever know exactly what happened. I don’t think they have to explain their decision. But even then, USADA probably would pursue the case by other means.

And if the RB accepts the charges, everything changes. LA will have to ask for a hearing if he wants to avoid sanction. Even if the hearing isn’t public, even if they don’t publish their findings, a lot of people will be privy to what went on in the hearing. It would be pretty hard to pressure the arbs into a favorable decision against the evidence without protests by some of these people. Tygart doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would put up with this, no matter how great the pressure and where it came from.

 

[TubularBills]

I didn't bust a spring when the federal case was closed. No reason to bust one if he gets off this. He wouldn't be the first lying narcissist sociopath to walk.

As for respecting his athletic abilities, I was originally a fan because of them, no reason to deny their existence. I don't think he would have won 7 titles, or maybe even one without doping, but that doesn't mean I think he was an also ran in relation to ability. I think he would have made a fine classics rider regardless. My beef has and always will be with the way he has treated others in his effort to hide his fraud. I don't, and never will like bullies, and I always like to see them have to take their medicine. He may not have to, but here's to hope!

Chapeau. Well said. I experienced a similar evolution... from respect & admiration to WTF. At least we don't need to live inside his head!? That is the lesson and the blessing, what happens to him is of no consequence beyond a desire for justice and perhaps vengeance... I'm quite comfortable with our discovery of the truth. Nothing more, nothing less. The truth is a powerful thing. Panacea.

 

[MacRoadie]

If the Review Board could somehow be pressured to drop the charges, I don’t think anyone would ever know exactly what happened.

I don't think they're going to be easily pressured. Seems they're already wise to his play book:

The board "has expressed concern about the potential for intimidation and retaliation against USADA's witnesses and as part of their review, has asked USADA to only provide additional evidence of doping that is already in the public domain."

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/4597734/landis-and-hamilton-part-of-armstrong.html#storylink=cpy

 

[TubularBills]

Travis Tygart, USADA's chief executive officer, said in a statement his agency was complying with the wishes of the review board.

The board "has expressed concern about the potential for intimidation and retaliation against USADA's witnesses and as part of their review, has asked USADA to only provide additional evidence of doping that is already in the public domain.

"USADA will continue to follow the established procedures that are compliant with federal law and were approved by athletes, the U.S. Olympic Committee, and all Olympic sports organizations."

Not sure I understand? I agree with the quoted; but was suggesting that memories are short. Often front page news stories (which this isn't) disappear rapidly into obscurity. So if someone of power were to step in and stop this process, I doubt 3 weeks down the road anyone would notice?

...Other than us?

 

[TubularBills]

I think for once people are overestimating the pressure LA can bring to bear. If he’s going to get cleared in this manner, it will have to be right now. If the Review Board could somehow be pressured to drop the charges, I don’t think anyone would ever know exactly what happened. I don’t think they have to explain their decision. But even then, USADA probably would pursue the case by other means.

And if the RB accepts the charges, everything changes. LA will have to ask for a hearing if he wants to avoid sanction. Even if the hearing isn’t public, even if they don’t publish their findings, a lot of people will be privy to what went on in the hearing. It would be pretty hard to pressure the arbs into a favorable decision against the evidence without protests by some of these people. Tygart doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would put up with this, no matter how great the pressure and where it came from.

I think we know exactly what happened. We've been researching it for years, honor and bask in your contribution! You deserve it and thank you for your insight, research and sharing. Your recent flurry of legalese is particularly notable. - Cheers!

Medical, legal and sporting expertise, noted.

 

[perfessor]

They achieved the stated with little trouble in abandoning the GJ, with apparently no blowback that I'm aware of... ?

That's the way it looked to me. This is an election year, with the primary focus on the economy, which is already being spun into "waste of taxpayer dollars" I wish to see this case proceed, but wouldn't be at all surprised to see it dropped with "no comment" from the protagonists, and "I've been vindicated" from Armstrong. Not too many saw it coming last time, either.

 

[BotanyBay]

"Mr. Landis is an admitted, proven liar,"

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/4597734/landis-and-hamilton-part-of-armstrong.html#storylink=cpy

- how does one be an admitted proven liar?

His client is an unadmitted, proven liar.

 

[TubularBills]

His client is an unadmitted, proven liar.

epic & subtle touche. Bravo.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I think for once people are overestimating the pressure LA can bring to bear. If he’s going to get cleared in this manner, it will have to be right now. If the Review Board could somehow be pressured to drop the charges, I don’t think anyone would ever know exactly what happened. I don’t think they have to explain their decision. But even then, USADA probably would pursue the case by other means.

And if the RB accepts the charges, everything changes. LA will have to ask for a hearing if he wants to avoid sanction. Even if the hearing isn’t public, even if they don’t publish their findings, a lot of people will be privy to what went on in the hearing. It would be pretty hard to pressure the arbs into a favorable decision against the evidence without protests by some of these people. Tygart doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would put up with this, no matter how great the pressure and where it came from.

Never underestimate the ability of people with massive wealth to overcome cases against them regardless of the forum.

 

[patricknd]

Scoreboard. Still failed.

Armstrong = L loser.

Glad to see your priorities are straight. Light up a lucky and celebrate

 

[rhubroma]

I didn't bust a spring when the federal case was closed. No reason to bust one if he gets off this. He wouldn't be the first lying narcissist sociopath to walk.

As for respecting his athletic abilities, I was originally a fan because of them, no reason to deny their existence. I don't think he would have won 7 titles, or maybe even one without doping, but that doesn't mean I think he was an also ran in relation to ability. I think he would have made a fine classics rider regardless. My beef has and always will be with the way he has treated others in his effort to hide his fraud. I don't, and never will like bullies, and I always like to see them have to take their medicine. He may not have to, but here's to hope!

Amen. Hubris mixed with bullying is always revolting.

Real justice, however, is not of this world. All the money and wealth interests working behind the scenes, truly the root of all evil, have created the ferocious divisions that beguile the judicial system in place today. It has the power to even change laws and orient public opinion and offer a spectacle of a "fair trial," which has nothing to do with real justice, but mendacity. Poets and artists of the past, though, like Dante and Michelangelo, once tried to portray images of pure justice, which (unfortunately) were always accompanied by a measure of divine vendetta. Lacking the will or the propensity or both, human beings have always resorted to a higher power to provide for their inadequacy and baseness. In the case of the sins under discussion, this image seems the just "medicine" to be taken.

 

[JRTinMA]

That's the way it looked to me. This is an election year, with the primary focus on the economy, which is already being spun into "waste of taxpayer dollars" I wish to see this case proceed, but wouldn't be at all surprised to see it dropped with "no comment" from the protagonists, and "I've been vindicated" from Armstrong. Not too many saw it coming last time, either.

I saw it coming and called it immediately in the criminal case, that case never had a chance. The USADA case is very different, there is little or no political pressure that can be applied to USADA. Lance could try to drain them financially because they have limited funds but they can rule on the case since the process is agreed to by both parties when you take a license. I think he loses his last two wins but they will not be able to overcome the SOL.

 

[thehog]

I don't think they're going to be easily pressured. Seems they're already wise to his play book:



http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/4597734/landis-and-hamilton-part-of-armstrong.html#storylink=cpy

I'm not sure what Armstrong is doing. Why is he telling everyone Hamilton and Landis might be witnesses? I assume he's trying to lump all the witnesses together as proven admitted liars? Not very compelling.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycl...t-of-armstrong-drug-probe-20120629-2172e.html

 

[peacefultribe]

If Armstrong tries to take down the USADA, and does succeed, people may be pretty mad. Maybe even some of his supporters. At the end of the day, the USADA is there to protect athletes. How many of his supporters have children who aspire to be athletes. Who will serve them if the USADA is gone, or loses power.

I may be wrong, but the tide seems to be turning in regards to society letting the powerful get away with anything that they want to. The banking industry is a great example of what happens when there isn't regulation. Most want a level playing field, and if you're smart, and truly talented, you will succeed without cheating. Believe it or not, there are a lot of smart Americans, and they're getting tired of being fleeced.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/4597734/landis-and-hamilton-part-of-armstrong.html#storylink=cpy

Noteworthy comment from that article:

USADA has said at least 10 former Armstrong teammates and associates will testify against him.

That's a lot. Besides Hamilton, Landis, and Andreu, who might other teammates that we know of be?

 

[Cloxxki]

Noteworthy comment from that article:

That's a lot. Besides Hamilton, Landis, and Andreu, who might other teammates that we know of be?

How poetic would it be to have all those riders line up at the hearing, and all underscribe representation of facts as in the letter?
-You are all liars, out to get me.
- No Lance, these are facts. We said the same under oath with 100% chance of jail when lying for you. We've lied long enough, but won't do time for you. Not even if we'd actually like you.

 

[noddy69]

Noteworthy comment from that article:

That's a lot. Besides Hamilton, Landis, and Andreu, who might other teammates that we know of be?

There you have three. At a guess two others being associates would be Emma O Reilly and Betsy Andreu. So that is five of the ten .

Any guesses on the other 5. Will big George break his silence at last?

 

[pot belge]

Maybe Levi is going to come clean!

 

[noddy69]

Maybe Levi is going to come clean!

Putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 maybe levi, zabriskie, van de velde and hincapie are all going to testify. All were at us postal in the era of Lance.
So along with The Andreu 2 , Floyd, Tyler, and Oreilly thats 9 we can start a rumour about.......who is number 10.

Alberto from the astana year

 

[Bicycle tramp]

What if Lance does get off and several co-operative witnesses have already incriminated themselves? The rest of US Postal etc. suffers a similar fate to Floyd & Tyler, whilst Lance slides. Surely no-one would stand for that. It'd be like a banker acting fraudulently, bringing down his enterprise & severely impacting the global economy and then expecting not only no sanction, but to be rescued by those upon whom the fraud was perpetrated.

 

[simo1733]

What if Lance does get off and several co-operative witnesses have already incriminated themselves? The rest of US Postal etc. suffers a similar fate to Floyd & Tyler, whilst Lance slides. Surely no-one would stand for that. It'd be like a banker acting fraudulently, bringing down his enterprise & severely impacting the global economy and then expecting not only no sanction, but to be rescued by those upon whom the fraud was perpetrated.

That would be a scenario where Lance were considered too big to fail! The UCI feel like that, USADA not so much.

 

[MarkvW]

The Future

A prediction:

Tour de France
Bob Roll
Interview
Exclusive
Lance Armstrong
Talks about USADA case