USADA - Armstrong

[Armanius]

He had his chance. Could have got the same deal. Instead he chose the harassment route

Hmmm ... is that a fact?

Do we know that USADA offered a six months suspension [which would have to be retroactive during a period that Armstrong was still riding] to Armstrong?

 

[thehog]

lol, just as I imagined. So now he´s saying they all lied to be in TdF? C`mon, not even guys at slowbtch are that slow?

Yes they all doped but then to save themselves made up the story that Lance doped. Even though Lance was clean. Even big happy friendly George fell for this trick

 

[TheMight]

We already knew about Landis and Hamilton. So the question is who are the other three?

Wouldn't it be quite interesting IF Contador is one of them?

Not a chance.

 

[Armanius]

Not a chance.

I suppose Contador would have received a lighter sentence than his two years retroactive suspension if he had snitched on Armstrong.

 

[Deagol]

We already knew about Landis and Hamilton. So the question is who are the other three?

Wouldn't it be quite interesting IF Contador is one of them?

Yes, it would. But I get the impression that they didn't share doping secrets with each other when on the same team. I know AC was in the USA last year for a while. Hmmmm.... is it really plausable he would have known directly about LA's doping and would have spoke to American authorities about it?

Someone brought up a good point earlier in a quote about Michael Barry, who has been flying under the radar for some reason. Also, Tomm D. was a former team-mate of LA for a short time.

So here is a speculative list of possibilities:
JV
CVV
DZ
LL
GH
TH
FL
TD
MB
AC ???

Note that there are ten in this list. I have my doubts about AC in particular, but who am I missing?

There is also the now-retired FA, but was the list of ten implied to all be active riders? If JV is in that list, then the answer would have to be no. I think FA is more likely than AC.

So more likely:
JV
CVV
DZ
LL
GH
TH
FL
TD
MB
FA

Flame away..

 

[HL2037]

Hmmm ... is that a fact?

Do we know that USADA offered a six months suspension [which would have to be retroactive during a period that Armstrong was still riding] to Armstrong?

We don't know that anybody was offered a six month suspension. I just saw on the news that that information is probably planted by Armstrong's people to harass the former postal riders during the Tour de France.

It is a fact however that the USADA wrote in their charging letter:

With the exception of Mr. Armstrong every other U.S. rider contacted by USADA regarding doping in cycling agreed to meet with USADA and to truthfully and fully describe their involvement in doping and all doping by others of which they were aware.

Mr. Armstrong was likewise contacted through his legal counsel and given the opportunity to meet with USADA to fully and truthfully disclose all knowledge of anti-doping rule violations committed in the sport of cycling. However, Mr. Armstrong declined USADA's offer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/usada.html

 

[goober]

We don't know that anybody was offered a six month suspension. I just saw on the news that that information is probably planted by Armstrong's people to harass the former postal riders during the Tour de France.

It is a fact however that the USADA wrote in their charging letter:

Actually is was planted by Elvis - he is still alive. What news station was this?

 

[Armanius]

Travis Tygart, "any attempt to guess at whom potential witnesses might be, only leads to inaccurate information being reported ..."

Does this mean that to this date, USADA has not provided Armstrong with the list of witnesses? And if yes, in order for Armstrong or Bruyneel to have leaked the info, they would have had to somehow obtain the list of witnesses from someone at USADA.

Or I suppose, assuming Armstrong doped, he would have known which former teammates knew he doped. And then released the names to the press as a guess of whom Armstrong believes snitched on him.

If the later is the case, that's a risky move if it turned out that the former teammate is NOT a witness.

 

[Deagol]

.... I just saw on the news that that information is probably planted by Armstrong's people .....

Link?

Thanks..

 

[spetsa]

It suprises me that nobody seems to be talking about Popovych, remember him? Astana teammate in 2009 tour, detained and questioned in the USA, home raided and computer confiscated in Italy. He probably knows absolutely nothing that would help the USADA in regards to info neccessary to the SOL issues

 

[TheMight]

I suppose Contador would have received a lighter sentence than his two years retroactive suspension if he had snitched on Armstrong.

He's the next great profiteer from it all. He's still not admitted to actually doing anything wrong, it was all bad meat. Right? It's his whole brand we're talking about here.

If you're going to go after foreign riders for this, why not Rubiera? I'm sure he has stories to tell. Beltran? Heras? Pena? Eki?

If they're serious, they'll produce some domestic guys that turned the dope down and now we barely know their names. Produce some known names with clean reputations, produce some guys that got fired from the team for not playing by the rules, produce some youngsters that were coerced.

 

[HL2037]

What news station was this?

http://tv2.dk

British expert Matt Rendell suggested that camp Lance is the source of the leak and compared LA's defence with a USA presidential campaign (i.e. spinning the media to sway public opinion rather than depending on facts and evidence).

Tv2 journalist Dennis Ritter then agreed that this seems to be concensus among the journalists at the Tour.

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

This is an interesting graphic from Gerard Vroomens blog here is a link to his blog and a link to the graphic below!

http://gerard.cc/2012/07/02/lance-case-2/



gerardvroomen Says:

July 4, 2012 at 14:47

Well, there is an interesting (if not entirely accurate nor serious) infographic to solve this problem:

http://twitpic.com/9wndno/full

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/lance-armstrong-the-end/

A few days after interviewing Lance Armstrong in Austin, Texas, for this magazine on the occasion of his comeback, in late 2008, I got The Call.

It’s not unusual for me to contact interviewees after we’ve spoken. In the course of transcribing an interview and writing a feature, it’s sometimes necessary to follow up and check a couple of facts, or explore a line of inquiry that we didn’t have time for.

This one was different.

Number withheld.

“Hey Ed, it’s Lance Armstrong,” said the voice at the other end. “How’s your kid?”

I fought the urge to go upstairs and check he was still asleep in his cot. Armstrong hadn’t called to make small talk, however. He wanted to discuss our interview, although to describe it as a discussion would be to overplay my part in the conversation.

“Your questions came from a very negative place,” he informed me.

I like to think I gave as good as I got. Armstrong chewed me out for obsessing about doping, while I lectured him about the sport needing to be built on ethical foundations and integrity, or it would have no meaning at all. This went on for a good half hour.

Then things turned a bit weird.

“OK then, if I cheated to win all those Tours, how did I do it?” Armstrong asked, challenge in his voice.

I was gobsmacked. The situation reminded me of OJ Simpson’s book If I did it. I was silent for a long time while my amazement found expression.

“Well, I don’t know,” was the best I could manage.

 

[Armanius]

We don't know that anybody was offered a six month suspension. I just saw on the news that that information is probably planted by Armstrong's people to harass the former postal riders during the Tour de France.

It is a fact however that the USADA wrote in their charging letter:

I don't see how harassing his former teammates during TDF help Armstrong. It'd only make the former teammates even more ****ed at him, and encourage them to really go after him. If they were reluctant witnesses, they would now be very willing witnesses, assuming Armstrong leaked the info.

Although I do see the benefits of attacking the former teammates credibility by alleging that they made a deal with USADA for a slap on the wrist. But even so, leaking the info about the "slap on the wrist" during the TDF doesn't add anything to that argument, which would still be the same whether it is leaked during the TDF or it is used later during the AAA proceeding.

Something isn't adding up, from a legal strategical point of view.

 

[jilbiker]

LA the Maifia Don

Wow, LA has hired investigators to did up dirt on USDA members, spreading rumors about the witnesses, etc. Who knows the extent that LA will go, i would say that the families of all of them, USDA, witnesses is up for grabs. LA has no boundaries and this is million possibly billion dollar enterprise at stake. What a bloke. This is like Al Capone all over again, "No one can bring me down", you try it I will take you down". LA is power drunk. He intimated other bikers into submission and the UCI was in his palm. Yes, he will argue other bikers were juiced like him, but none had the attitude of this meganomaniac.

Someone has to bring this fellow down a peg or two, but he is already saying it will be a bloody fight. Bradley Wiggins could not post comments he is scared because LA would retaliate...I was like "What is this????"

 

[HL2037]

Travis Tygart, "any attempt to guess at whom potential witnesses might be, only leads to inaccurate information being reported ..."

Does this mean that to this date, USADA has not provided Armstrong with the list of witnesses? And if yes, in order for Armstrong or Bruyneel to have leaked the info, they would have had to somehow obtain the list of witnesses from someone at USADA.

Or I suppose, assuming Armstrong doped, he would have known which former teammates knew he doped. And then released the names to the press as a guess of whom Armstrong believes snitched on him.

If the later is the case, that's a risky move if it turned out that the former teammate is NOT a witness.

After those exact four riders rsvp'd no to the olympic games it doesn't take a genious to figure out.

 

[Stingray34]

It suprises me that nobody seems to be talking about Popovych, remember him? Astana teammate in 2009 tour, detained and questioned in the USA, home raided and computer confiscated in Italy. He probably knows absolutely nothing that would help the USADA in regards to info neccessary to the SOL issues

That's exactly what I thought when he waved to the camera during today's stage

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Travis Tygart, "any attempt to guess at whom potential witnesses might be, only leads to inaccurate information being reported ..."

Does this mean that to this date, USADA has not provided Armstrong with the list of witnesses? And if yes, in order for Armstrong or Bruyneel to have leaked the info, they would have had to somehow obtain the list of witnesses from someone at USADA.

Or I suppose, assuming Armstrong doped, he would have known which former teammates knew he doped. And then released the names to the press as a guess of whom Armstrong believes snitched on him.

If the later is the case, that's a risky move if it turned out that the former teammate is NOT a witness.

Armstrong and the rest of the fraud conspirators have until 9th July to respond to USADA - so they would not have the name of the witnesses, that would only be provided if they contest the charges and go to arbitration.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It suprises me that nobody seems to be talking about Popovych, remember him? Astana teammate in 2009 tour, detained and questioned in the USA, home raided and computer confiscated in Italy. He probably knows absolutely nothing that would help the USADA in regards to info neccessary to the SOL issues

Popo was brought in by the Feds, not USADA.
The USADA riders/witnesses are probably all American.

 

[HL2037]

I don't see how harassing his former teammates during TDF help Armstrong.

Bless you.

 

[Merckx index]

Wouldn't it be quite interesting IF Contador is one of them?

Here’s one for conspiracy theorists:

When Contador tested positive at the 2010 TDF. USADA through WADA found out about it. They managed to prevent news of the positive getting out while they went to Contador and—again, working through WADA as well as RFEC-- offered to make him a deal if he would talk about Armstrong doping. This was before any GJ testimony, most likely, and before Tyler spoke. At this point, USADA had no one but Landis (who claimed in his book that USADA offered him a very similar deal), and certainly no recent teammate of LA who could be useful in extending the SOL.

The deal was that Bert would confess to a contaminated supplement, and get a reduced, one year suspension. Bert refused, because (take your choice) he had nothing on Armstrong to offer, he was afraid LA would find out and make his life difficult, and/or he still thought at that time he could beat the rap completely (persuaded by sympathetic words from RFEC). Once USADA was convinced any possible deal was off, they got out of the way, Bert’s positive was announced, and normal procedures began to be followed.

This is just the soft core version of the theory, of course . For hard core conspiracy theorists, the version is that someone sympathetic to USADA’s case against LA spiked the beef, and/or manufactured the plasticizer positive. If you’re wondering why they didn’t just do that with LA, I don’t believe he gave any samples in that Tour (other than the one all riders give at the start).

 

[spetsa]

Popo was brought in by the Feds, not USADA.
The USADA riders/witnesses are probably all American.

I agree in part, but Tygart was involved in meetings with individuals and organizations overseas. It is very possible that emails or other incriminating evidence were obtained from Popo's computer in Itlay and shared with USADA.

 

[MarkvW]

I don't see how harassing his former teammates during TDF help Armstrong. It'd only make the former teammates even more ****ed at him, and encourage them to really go after him. If they were reluctant witnesses, they would now be very willing witnesses, assuming Armstrong leaked the info.

Although I do see the benefits of attacking the former teammates credibility by alleging that they made a deal with USADA for a slap on the wrist. But even so, leaking the info about the "slap on the wrist" during the TDF doesn't add anything to that argument, which would still be the same whether it is leaked during the TDF or it is used later during the AAA proceeding.

Something isn't adding up, from a legal strategical point of view.

The co-cons probably are not that coordinated in their defense at this point.

 

[MarkvW]

Here’s one for conspiracy theorists:

When Contador tested positive at the 2010 TDF. USADA through WADA found out about it. They managed to prevent news of the positive getting out while they went to Contador and—again, working through WADA as well as RFEC-- offered to make him a deal if he would talk about Armstrong doping. This was before any GJ testimony, most likely, and before Tyler spoke. At this point, USADA had no one but Landis (who claimed in his book that USADA offered him a very similar deal), and certainly no recent teammate of LA who could be useful in extending the SOL.

The deal was that Bert would confess to a contaminated supplement, and get a reduced, one year suspension. Bert refused, because (take your choice) he had nothing on Armstrong to offer, he was afraid LA would find out and make his life difficult, and/or he still thought at that time he could beat the rap completely (persuaded by sympathetic words from RFEC). Once USADA was convinced any possible deal was off, they got out of the way, Bert’s positive was announced, and normal procedures began to be followed.

This is just the soft core version of the theory, of course . For hard core conspiracy theorists, the version is that someone sympathetic to USADA’s case against LA spiked the beef, and/or manufactured the plasticizer positive. If you’re wondering why they didn’t just do that with LA, I don’t believe he gave any samples in that Tour (other than the one all riders give at the start).

Well, I don't know how such a sneaky plan could ever get past the honorable men of the Spanish cycling federation!