USADA - Armstrong

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Mar 18, 2009
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ChewbaccaD said:
Thanks for posting. The walls are closing in on Armstrong. Never before has he been this rattled. The USADA is playing it very cool and controlled. Not getting the least bit upset at the bullying by Lance and his band of PR shills. I really do find it sad that he just cannot see that telling the truth is the best option.

I wonder if the raise in HCT coincide with his visit to Ferrari that they admitted to a couple of days ago? Man, Lance really needs to study the chaos theory, you just can't keep the genie in the bottle forever.

I think the key is teammate testimony with the passport samples and even the 1999 retroactive tests as corroborative evidence.

While the 1999 tests cannot be used by themselves as proof of doping because there was no A test, if Hincapie, Vaughters, Andreu, and perhaps others give accounts of how the team used EPO during the Tour then the samples can be used to buttress their testimony. Teammates testify that the team was given EPO injections the day before the prologue and exogenous EPO values are shown to have peaked the first day then fallen over the next few days just like they should for a dose of EPO.

The same can be true with Leipheimer's account of what went on at Astana and RS. The USADA won't have to just analyze suspicious changes in blood values. They could have Leipheimer describe how blood was taken out at a certain time and reintroduced at another. The blood values will then be shown to match his account.

It should be damning.
 
Jan 25, 2010
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Sorry if this has been answered before, but, can someone please explain what is the rationale for giving pharmastrong 30 more days?

To me the faster he was knocked out the better. Now he'll have more time to harass all kinds of people and I would not be surprised if in 30 days he manages to delay things once more.
 

thehog

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Race Radio said:
Right before Flanders: Hematocrit 44.2...Hemoglobin 15.1 g/dL...Reticulocyte percentage 0.62

My information proves correct.

You may also note that he and select teammates rented a private house with security before the race.

Dispite a disappointing season with Landis revelations etc., pulling out of races, gaining weight he pulled out a decent finish at Flanders.

You'll find some good data leading up to the Tour as well. Up/down.

Great to see the Passport doing its job! Thanks UCI.
 
Aug 10, 2010
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Iker_Baqueiro said:
Sorry if this has been answered before, but, can someone please explain what is the rationale for giving pharmastrong 30 more days?

To me the faster he was knocked out the better. Now he'll have more time to harass all kinds of people and I would not be surprised if in 30 days he manages to delay things once more.

There's at least three kinds of injunction: (1) the temporary injunction (or TRO); (2) the preliminary injunction; and (3) the permanent injunction.

The TRO is a 'stop the bleeding' kind of injunction. These kind of injunctions happen quickly and are often sprung on the defendant with very very little notice. The defendant and the judge are very rushed. That's why if a TRO is granted, they have a proceding for a more considered injunction--the preliminary injunction.

The preliminary injunction is the injunction that applies during the case to preserve the status quo.

The permanent injunction is usual goal end goal of the plaintiff.

In this case, it looks like they're going to skip the TRO and just deal with the preliminary injunction (if the expected motion to dismiss fails).

The 30 days gives USADA time to prepare a defense and gives the judge the time to review the documents.

Armstrong would have had a dickens of a time getting a TRO because he'd have had to demonstrate a risk of irreparable injury that warrants such emergency relief. He'd never meet that burden. He was wise to give that up--especially after the extreme last minute TRO hearing (had it been held) would have been caused by his grandstanding waste of a complaint.

The things happening are both logical and usual.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Right before Flanders: Hematocrit 44.2...Hemoglobin 15.1 g/dL...Reticulocyte percentage 0.62

It is interesting that Armstrong appears to have been using old fashioned transfusions without microdosing to raise his retics.

Did he just use the methods that he was using in 2003 without an update for passport?
 
Aug 10, 2010
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BroDeal said:
I think the key is teammate testimony with the passport samples and even the 1999 retroactive tests as corroborative evidence.

While the 1999 tests cannot be used by themselves as proof of doping because there was no A test, if Hincapie, Vaughters, Andreu, and perhaps others give accounts of how the team used EPO during the Tour then the samples can be used to buttress their testimony. Teammates testify that the team was given EPO injections the day before the prologue and exogenous EPO values are shown to have peaked the first day then fallen over the next few days just like they should for a dose of EPO.

The same can be true with Leipheimer's account of what went on at Astana and RS. The USADA won't have to just analyze suspicious changes in blood values. They could have Leipheimer describe how blood was taken out at a certain time and reintroduced at another. The blood values will then be shown to match his account.

It should be damning.

The beauty of the case against Armstrong is that it isn't just about Armstrong's blood. Every teammate whom Armstrong encouraged OR supplied is another reason for a ban.

If I were Celaya, I'd hold out for a couple of million before I'd withdraw my arbitration request and quietly fade away.
 
Jan 25, 2010
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MarkvW said:
There's at least three kinds of injunction: (1) the temporary injunction (or TRO); (2) the preliminary injunction; and (3) the permanent injunction.

The TRO is a 'stop the bleeding' kind of injunction. These kind of injunctions happen quickly and are often sprung on the defendant with very very little notice. The defendant and the judge are very rushed. That's why if a TRO is granted, they have a proceding for a more considered injunction--the preliminary injunction.

The preliminary injunction is the injunction that applies during the case to preserve the status quo.

The permanent injunction is usual goal end goal of the plaintiff.

In this case, it looks like they're going to skip the TRO and just deal with the preliminary injunction (if the expected motion to dismiss fails).

The 30 days gives USADA time to prepare a defense and gives the judge the time to review the documents.

Armstrong would have had a dickens of a time getting a TRO because he'd have had to demonstrate a risk of irreparable injury that warrants such emergency relief. He'd never meet that burden. He was wise to give that up--especially after the extreme last minute TRO hearing (had it been held) would have been caused by his grandstanding waste of a complaint.

The things happening are both logical and usual.

Thank you MarkvW
 
Aug 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
It is interesting that Armstrong appears to have been using old fashioned transfusions without microdosing to raise his retics.

Did he just use the methods that he was using in 2003 without an update for passport?

Could be.

Those figure represent a 50% reduction in Ret and 10% increase in Hct.

He had 3 off scores of over 100 in less then 1 year. Bag of blood
 

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Right before Flanders: Hematocrit 44.2...Hemoglobin 15.1 g/dL...Reticulocyte percentage 0.62

I'd put this 2010 & 09 data into a thread of its own. Plenty of good discussion in those sheets.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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MarkvW said:
If I were Celaya, I'd hold out for a couple of million before I'd withdraw my arbitration request and quietly fade away.

He would need to leak to a newspaper that he was considering cooperating in exchange for leniency.

I wonder if Armstrong learned anything from denying FLandis a job.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Could be.

Those figure represent a 50% reduction in Ret and 10% increase in Hct.

He had 3 off scores of over 100 in less then 1 year. Bag of blood

It would be ironic if the master doper came back from retirement and was caught out because he did not realize that doping techniques had advanced beyond what worked so well before.
 
May 7, 2009
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MarkvW said:
The introduction of abortion into this dialog is nauseating.

I have to agree, but this whole thing makes America look disgusting for soo many reasons. :( :mad:

"justice" bought and paid for. Class system based on celebrity, willful ignorance, dishonesty taken to absurd extremes., etc etc etc
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Jeremiah said:
There's nothing mythological about influence peddling and belonging to clubs where a big part of the recreation is hookers and blow.

Sounds like sour grapes because they blackballed you. :D
 
Mar 17, 2009
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college said:
Hey Patrick keep the livestrong spirit. I kbow you have had and won the fight against cancer. That is an awsome fight. These small time comics ate nothing to the real deal.

Thanks college, I'm living strong every freaking day
 
Aug 10, 2010
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Deagol said:
I have to agree, but this whole thing makes America look disgusting for soo many reasons. :( :mad:

"justice" bought and paid for. Class system based on celebrity, willful ignorance, dishonesty taken to absurd extremes., etc etc etc

Yeah, but ain't it beautiful! Our crud is right out in the open. America is a screwed-up wonderful ugly and beautiful place!
 
Jul 27, 2010
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The two blood samples are among 38 taken from Armstrong between Oct. 16, 2008, and April 30, 2012…Fifteen of the tests USADA is using are from 2010-12.

Other sources say he was tested twenty-four times just between late 08 – March 09. Most of those would have been passports, so if this new information is correct, that twenty-four value is too high.

The samples were carefully stored

I thought most of these samples were discarded?

USADA, which apparently collected some of the tests from other anti-doping agencies, believes the fluctuations are more than suspicious. Combined with witness testimony about what allegedly went on behind closed doors on Armstrong's teams, the agency believes the 38 blood tests constitute objective proof that Armstrong doctored his blood using banned drugs or methods.

Though the testimony is vital to this conclusion, this is making UCI look more and more either fraudulent or negligent. It should come out in this hearing whether LA’s passport exhibited any intersections, which would have mandated sending the data to a panel of experts. If it didn’t, then the numbers are within range, and it will take very good witness testimony—not just what they did, but that they did it at that time—to make a convincing case. OTOH, if they did send it to an expert panel, then those experts might have to justify their decision.

some of which USADA can't seize from laboratories without consent from Armstrong himself, who has declined to give the agency permission to review the samples.

Nothing to hide, right, LA?

Interesting that the word for “altered” or “manipulated” is “doctored”, as in “doctored” his blood. When Ferrari, et al. call themselves doctors, this is definitely in that sense of the word.

USADA CEO Travis Tygart issued a statement Thursday evening, stating that USADA would reach out to Congressman Sensenbrenner and offer to come in and discuss the process.

Good move.

It is interesting that Armstrong appears to have been using old fashioned transfusions without microdosing to raise his retics.

Maybe he just went easy on the microdosing, concerned about testing positive for EPO, or about raising his HT too much (since EPO does that, too). His numbers were suspicious, but not flagrantly suspicious. Keep in mind that the passport is basically a more sophisticated version of the off-score, which required a value of about 130 just to warrant bringing the rider in for a discussion. LA's highest off-score during this period, at least of values in the public domain, was less than 110.
 

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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One might note that from May 2010 the Landis allegations were out in the open so that might have dictated his drugs of choice leading up to the Tour.
 
Aug 10, 2010
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Deagol said:
One of the comments on the Velonews article (paraphrased): If Trek is involved in this, then they should be boycotted.

I've been shunning Armstrong-endorsed products for years.

Does anybody make high-quality Dopestrong shirts?
 
May 14, 2010
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MarkvW said:
The introduction of abortion into this dialog is nauseating.

Apologies for my part in it. I just thought it was hilarious to turn this guy's defense of Armstrong into, "Senator, why do you hate . . . [etc.]?"

MarkvW said:
Yeah, but ain't it beautiful! Our crud is right out in the open. America is a screwed-up wonderful ugly and beautiful place!

Wait, I thought that was Italy? But, yeah, our crud is out in the open, much of it. You do have to hand us that.

Anyway, I guess I'm not clear on who besides Armstrong and UCI has the 2010 values, and what it would take to get them released?
 
Sep 15, 2010
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MarkvW said:
The introduction of abortion into this dialog is nauseating.

Absolutely. A huge step in the wrong direction and very Armstrongesque. Underhanded tactics have no place in this forum or fight.

Particularly since our team via USADA states this:

“The evidence is overwhelming, and were we not to bring this case, we would be complicit in covering up evidence of doping, and failing to do our job on behalf of those we are charged with protecting."

No need to bring a highly volatile and sensitive tangential distraction into a fight for the truth.

Strength and Honor.
 
May 19, 2012
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BroDeal said:
I think the key is teammate testimony with the passport samples and even the 1999 retroactive tests as corroborative evidence.

While the 1999 tests cannot be used by themselves as proof of doping because there was no A test, if Hincapie, Vaughters, Andreu, and perhaps others give accounts of how the team used EPO during the Tour then the samples can be used to buttress their testimony. Teammates testify that the team was given EPO injections the day before the prologue and exogenous EPO values are shown to have peaked the first day then fallen over the next few days just like they should for a dose of EPO.

The same can be true with Leipheimer's account of what went on at Astana and RS. The USADA won't have to just analyze suspicious changes in blood values. They could have Leipheimer describe how blood was taken out at a certain time and reintroduced at another. The blood values will then be shown to match his account.

It should be damning.

Supposedly in the earlier years, the doping wasn't as organized team wise as later.

I hope that's the case for Frankie's sake as he said he was on his own program and got EPO himself from Switzerland.
 
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