USADA - Armstrong

[mastersracer]

But you said Armstrong had a stake? What is his stake to be added to his assets?

I've provided external sources of his net wealth along with documentation that his assets are highly diversified through at least this company. I don't know what his stake is in this company for the simple reason that it is not a publicly traded company so does not have those disclosures. I stated a long time ago in this thread that I thought Armstrong would pursue a scorched earth policy for his defense, and his financial position is likely such that he can afford to do so. If he was 'poor,' then his legal options would be more limited. You said he was, but have yet to substantiate that claim. It is wrong to suppose Armstrong's wealth was dependent on his salary for the simple reason that he has had an equity stake in the teams he has been on and derived income from many sources.

For all those appearance fees Armstrong collected during his comeback, he could have make 10x that in speaker fees on the Dilbert circuit.

 

[70kmph]

"Its hardly a glamour sport like football"

Ha- nice one

 

[red_flanders]

Let's please move along from Armstrong's wealth, since no one knows and it's another topic. Also move on from who you feel is a troll or not, as it's almost certain to derail the thread and is certainly off topic. If you have an issue with a post or poster, report the post or contact a mod RE: a serious recurring problem.

 

[MarkvW]

He already is poor. I wish the fallacy that he is wealthy would cease to exist. Where is all this money coming from that you think makes him so affluent? .....

That's what hoggy says today.

From 2009:
Lance is wealthy. He's is not super rich. Shrewd with money and not flash. He did make significant loses with the market crashes. As did all. He was never in debt but he wasn't making the same money he was when he was riding.

He noted that the more he rode in small events the more donations he received. That was what bred the idea to return. Yes – win win. Win for the foundation, win for him. Its natural to want to benefit personally as well as for the foundation.

From 2/2011:
One has all the money in the world, a foundation, fame, 7 Tour Titles....

Just in case any of you thought that hoggy was being sincere and not trolling you.

 

[Velodude]

Not taking sides here ('cuz I think it is irrelevant), but $250m in deals DOES NOT equal $250m in value.

If (big if) they cleared 10% after tax, then their equity participants would have a share of $25m in value.

As for other sources of net value, don't forget an ownership stake in Trek.

Dave.

Yes and I would expect that CSE brought parties together that resulted in endorsement deals amounting to $250m for CSE clients.

Yawning difference.

CSE's income would be a percentage fee or commission on those amounts.

 

[Velodude]

That's what hoggy says today.

From 2009:
Lance is wealthy. He's is not super rich. Shrewd with money and not flash. He did make significant loses with the market crashes. As did all. He was never in debt but he wasn't making the same money he was when he was riding.

He noted that the more he rode in small events the more donations he received. That was what bred the idea to return. Yes – win win. Win for the foundation, win for him. Its natural to want to benefit personally as well as for the foundation.

From 2/2011:
One has all the money in the world, a foundation, fame, 7 Tour Titles....

Just in case any of you thought that hoggy was being sincere and not trolling you.

Do you live in a glass house?

 

[thehog]

I've provided external sources of his net wealth along with documentation that his assets are highly diversified through at least this company. I don't know what his stake is in this company for the simple reason that it is not a publicly traded company so does not have those disclosures. I stated a long time ago in this thread that I thought Armstrong would pursue a scorched earth policy for his defense, and his financial position is likely such that he can afford to do so. If he was 'poor,' then his legal options would be more limited. You said he was, but have yet to substantiate that claim. It is wrong to suppose Armstrong's wealth was dependent on his salary for the simple reason that he has had an equity stake in the teams he has been on and derived income from many sources.

For all those appearance fees Armstrong collected during his comeback, he could have make 100x that in speaker fees on the Dilbert circuit.

You're so sensitive. LIke hyper sensitive. Slow down.

I do worry because you appear intent on hunting me down since my comments on Sky.

You have to admit the link you provided was funny. Some of the dialogue in it was comical. But you still present it if its fact. Mealy throwing a link onto a forum doesn't validate your claims. You have to provide some critical reasoning around why the the information within the link supports your claim. Financial weather by Facebook hits is hardly valid data. I think you'd agree with me on that one.

Its sad day when Armstrong is being defended a custodian of the truth! He's already proven his entire career was built on a lie. But somehow we're to believe him his comeback wasn't about money... :roll eyes: Do you actually belive that or you just want to differ from my point of view?

Back to the point at hand; I said Armstrong is not as wealthily as he leads people to believe. He's not poor in the sense he's living on the street in destitution but he's not wealthily in the way he portrays himself (jets etc.).

I've fought these battles many times. Since 1999 I told it how I saw it. Against massive opposition on forums such as these. Look how that turned out?

With Sky i predicted finishing positions and reactions to doping questions. We'll see how that turns out.

Armstrong will be in finical ruin in under 5 years. End of story.

 

[thehog]

That's what hoggy says today.

From 2009:
Lance is wealthy. He's is not super rich. Shrewd with money and not flash. He did make significant loses with the market crashes. As did all. He was never in debt but he wasn't making the same money he was when he was riding.

He noted that the more he rode in small events the more donations he received. That was what bred the idea to return. Yes – win win. Win for the foundation, win for him. Its natural to want to benefit personally as well as for the foundation.

From 2/2011:
One has all the money in the world, a foundation, fame, 7 Tour Titles....

Just in case any of you thought that hoggy was being sincere and not trolling you.

Thanks Mark. With time comes information. But thanks for spending the time searching my files. And I still stand by those statements. Armstrong is shrewd with money but not rich as he portrays. Nothing has changed.

Alas it does remind me of the time when you made an announcement to the forum you were leaving in defence of Armstrong. And now you deride him as "filth"?

Make up your mind. Which is it?

 

[Oldman]

Thanks Mark. With time comes information. But thanks for spending the time searching my files. And I still stand by those statements. Armstrong is shrew with money but not rich as he portrays. Nothing has changed.

Alas it does remind me of the time when you made an announcement to the forum you were leaving in defence of Armstrong. And now you deride him as "filth"?

Make up your mind. Which is it?

I don't think we should discount the financial aid available to the people that rode LA to this day that don't want to have their names in the press. At least not associated with this massive pr fraud as their other enterprises could suffer. Those folks are captive to the lie to a degree that they will spend to minimize their exposure. Having said that Lance's hubris and self-image may get the best of him and all of the cards could come down.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

So what was the reason he came out of retirement? (this will be a good one)

A man's ego can never stand on it's own. It needs the rapacious sound of the crowd to keep it alive.

Holy ***, I just made that up....

 

[mikkemus23]

SoCal I will stand down from the argument. I like your posts so I'm not going to stir the pot.

But when you pull apart those numbers there's not a lot there. You have to remember that a sports person who's not on a footballer type salary uses their endorsement money to run the company of themselves. i.e. they have to spend their own money (pre-tax) in the promotion of themselves. If you think of that money from say Subaru would equate to 5m over two years in the pocket after tax. Imagine the mortgage on 3 properties, the upkeep of the grounds and the staff. Throw in a divorce and its all dried up.

He's not a football/soccor playing pulling in 45m a year. No where near it. His lifestyle never matched his income.

Seriously if was wealthy beyond means he never would have come back - are you serious he came back for fun? Not to cycling, no. Its hardly a glamour sport like football. It actually takes 5-6 hours a day of training and you want to be getting money for that. Good money. Which he did from appearances.

The stock market crash hit and the money was drying up hence the comeback. It was well thought out and planned.

Whaat? I`m sure he came back to raise awareness, on the house. Hope rides again etc. He got so little money he had to borrow wheels from Alberto IIRC. What a lovely man.

 

[sittingbison]

okay, without wanting to start a flame war, and given RFs desire to not talk filthy lucre, I'm going to put in 2c and then retire from this sub thread.

1) If the divorce is not finalised, he will shortly lose much of his wealth when it is. This lost wealth will be real, in the form of cold hard cash and solid items ie real estate, not paperwork.
2) Much of his wealth is determined by and derived from endorsements. All those are about to cease, including Nike, Trek, Michelob etc. All of them, if he is found guilty of USADA charges
3) There is a distinct possibility that many of these endorsements will sue him if found guilty of USADA charges. Their image, which he is paid to enhance with his own image, will be damaged by his fraud.
4) There is a distinct possibility that major cash injections such as the $5m SCA will be fought over if he is found guilty of USADA charges. These will also be subject to interest, and in the case of SCA the legal bills of that case (also subject to interest).
5) His ongoing money making endeavours such as Mellow Johnnies and Juan Pelotas that rely solely on the public visiting and spending money due to his profile will become bankrupt if he is found guilty of USADA charges.

To summarise, his entire financial kingdom is underpinned on his sporting achievement profile. The entire house of cards will come tumbling down if he is found guilty of USADA charges. His wife should get in quick before November.

And lastly, I chuckle if clinicians want to believe his come back in 2009 was for altruistic reasons. For example, at his much vaunted comeback at the Tour Down Under in 2009 the appearance fee was paid to him, not his charity:
"...asked repeatedly by Crikey.com.au why the actual sum — which the seven-time Tour winner confirmed to the New York Times he was treating as income, not monies towards charity as a media officer for the State Premier Mike Rann said it was for..."

 

[thehog]

http://150wattsofawesome.blogspot.com/2012/07/coffee-or-not-with-lance-armstrong.html?m=1

Looks to be a wee bit of stalking going on.

Those who do not know Anna she writes well researched and thought out pieces in regards to cycling. Of late she’s devoted several articles to the USADA affair. Well done her for not being seduced like Wiggo!

 

[D-Queued]

http://150wattsofawesome.blogspot.com/2012/07/coffee-or-not-with-lance-armstrong.html?m=1

Looks to be a wee bit of stalking going on.

Those who do not know Anna she writes well researched and thought out pieces in regards to cycling. Of late she’s devoted several articles to the USADA affair. Well done her for not being seduced like Wiggo!

You beat me to this.

Very creepy.

He only follows 386 people. Do the other 385 look like his mother, and do they get stalked as well?

I hope Anna has reached the age of majority.

Dave.

 

[JRTinMA]

http://150wattsofawesome.blogspot.com/2012/07/coffee-or-not-with-lance-armstrong.html?m=1

Looks to be a wee bit of stalking going on.

Those who do not know Anna she writes well researched and thought out pieces in regards to cycling. Of late she’s devoted several articles to the USADA affair. Well done her for not being seduced like Wiggo!

I guess you don't actually read her blog. I find it funny that she gets into a twitter fight with LA and makes a big deal out of it but believes Schleck is clean and its all a huge mistake. Wiggo and Froome should be above suspicion because there are no hard facts. She's an empty headed blogger who should be quickly forgotten.

 

[Benotti69]

I guess you don't actually read her blog. I find it funny that she gets into a twitter fight with LA and makes a big deal out of it but believes Schleck is clean and its all a huge mistake. Wiggo and Froome should be above suspicion because there are no hard facts. She's an empty headed blogger who should be quickly forgotten.

Armstrong disagrees with you.

 

[thehog]

Armstrong disagrees with you.

The key being those messages were direct private messages not tweets.

 

[D-Queued]

I guess you don't actually read her blog. I find it funny that she gets into a twitter fight with LA and makes a big deal out of it but believes Schleck is clean and its all a huge mistake. Wiggo and Froome should be above suspicion because there are no hard facts. She's an empty headed blogger who should be quickly forgotten.

From the mouths of babes... there can be no greater indictment.

The key being those messages were direct private messages not tweets.

Like I said, creepy.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

The key being those messages were direct private messages not tweets.

He wants to go training with her of course.

She does conform to his idea of what he finds attractive in women!

Whether Anne Zimmerman is an airhead she is part of the growing trend of calling out Armstrong and there is nothing he can do about it. Not so long ago his lawyers would have been knocking on her door with lawsuits.

As for Armstrong being poor. If true and I find it very surprising, but it also would mean that he is making lots for others who have a % of his ***. Weisel?

There is/was a thread to which products and companies Armstrong is/was associated with and it was a long list.

He maybe cash poor in the USA, but I would be surprised if he did not put a lot offshore!

 

[JRTinMA]

Armstrong disagrees with you.

He was probably trying to score, he likes chicks who look much older than they are. Or he wanted to rent space for an ad on her giant empty forehead.

 

[Race Radio]

It appears Wonderboy is not the only person worked up by Anna

Never question the myth.......

 

[sniper]

nice blog, admitted, but a quadrupel facepalm right here:

in all seriousness, what could he possibly have to say to me in person that he cannot also say on the internet?

 

[Benotti69]

nice blog, admitted, but a quadrupel facepalm right here:

I think she may have been insinuating something there and that was for his partner

 

[sniper]

I think she may have been insinuating something there and that was for his partner

but what if LA's saying: "you're only scratching the surface. wanna hear the real story? the story behind the story?". Would you decline?
Perhaps LA is getting ready for a tell all?

 

[DirtyWorks]

but what if LA's saying: "you're only scratching the surface. wanna hear the real story? the story behind the story?". Would you decline?
Perhaps LA is getting ready for a tell all?

That would presume he can recognize the truth/facts from the fan fiction that's been created. The criminal aspects of it all would be enormous. Not going to happen.

Let's use the sociopath model for a minute. Whatever has gone on between the two of them, Wonderboy is finding the way onto this blogger's credibility ladder.