USADA - Armstrong

[hektoren]

He might just have some assets in Europe.

Well, his Italian Ferrari is more of a liability these days...

 

[sniper]

http://contests.about.com/b/2012/08...rmstrong-with-michelob-ultras-sweepstakes.htm

Not many people get the chance to bike with one of the most famous cyclists in the world. But you'll be able to join that number, if you enter Michelob Ultra's Adventure Sweepstakes.

The grand-prize winner will receive the chance to bike with Lance Armstrong in Hawaii. The prize includes the trip to Hawaii, the chance to meet Lance Armstrong, hiking and kayaking adventures, and more. The prize is worth $19,000.

any clinicians interested?

 

[sittingbison]

well, his italian ferrari is more of a liability these days...

post of the day lol

The grand-prize winner will receive the chance to bike with Lance Armstrong in Hawaii. The prize includes the trip to Hawaii, the chance to throw Lance under the bus, hiking and kayaking adventures, and more. The prize is worth $19,000

Fixed %)

 

[hektoren]

Journos have been wise for along time. They never had the balls to question or report the reality.

They'll grow some when the verdict is in.
Suspecting and knowing for a fact are very different ball-growing factors for journos, as it should be for us all.

 

[Benotti69]

http://contests.about.com/b/2012/08...rmstrong-with-michelob-ultras-sweepstakes.htm



any clinicians interested?

Please note it says 'chance'.

I guess it is 2 chances. No chance and Flip all chance to meet him.

 

[Benotti69]

They'll grow some when the verdict is in.
Suspecting and knowing for a fact are very different ball-growing factors for journos, as it should be for us all.

No they wont grow any.

They'll jump on the band wagon as they always do.

This whole shennaginas would have been over in the early 90s if more Journalists had balls, like Walsh to write about what they saw and ask the hard questions.

Nah jump on the band wagon and get a free ride and maybe some titbits like a free pair of oakley's.

Watch them hang him as they rope goes around Armstrong's neck, like they always knew he was a doper etc etc....

The majority of the cycling media failed in its duty to write about the reality in front of its eyes.

They are failing the sport now with their adulation of Sky!

 

[hektoren]

No they wont grow any.

They'll jump on the band wagon as they always do.

This whole shennaginas would have been over in the early 90s if more Journalists had balls, like Walsh to write about what they saw and ask the hard questions.

Nah jump on the band wagon and get a free ride and maybe some titbits like a free pair of oakley's.

Watch them hang him as they rope goes around Armstrong's neck, like they always knew he was a doper etc etc....

The majority of the cycling media failed in its duty to write about the reality in front of its eyes.

They are failing the sport now with their adulation of Sky!

It's easy to be ballsy when your job isn't on the line, isn't it?
Most media houses are sensitive to the bottom line, and printing what you suspect, not what you know, is a surefire way to land you in court.
May be a despicable way to conduct affairs in your eyes, but level-headed thinking will win the battle, wild lashing after imagined enemies won't.

 

[Benotti69]

It's easy to be ballsy when your job isn't on the line, isn't it?
Most media houses are sensitive to the bottom line, and printing what you suspect, not what you know, is a surefire way to land you in court.
May be a despicable way to conduct affairs in your eyes, but level-headed thinking will win the battle, wild lashing after imagined enemies won't.

Wild Lashing after imagined enemies????

We are not talking about some bloke in his room on a pc.

We are talking about supposedly intelligent people with an 'in' into the sport, contacts, insider knowledge and a complete understanding of the sport.

So when they see the 'unbelievable' they can pursue it in an intelligent journalistic manner as is the purpose of their job.

But as we nowadays mostly see, it is to regurgitate press releases and add a quote.

I doubt many jobs are on the line if they get the inside story on doping. Bad news sells.

I cant imagine many people if any cancelled their Daily Mail when Kimmage dared to call out Brailsford and Sky on their choice of Doctor, ie Leinders?

David Walsh is still Chief Sportswriter at The Sunday Times last time i looked even though he has been calling a spade a spade for years, including Armstrong calling a doper

 

[hektoren]

Wild Lashing after imagined enemies????

We are not talking about some bloke in his room on a pc.

We are talking about supposedly intelligent people with an 'in' into the sport, contacts, insider knowledge and a complete understanding of the sport.

So when they see the 'unbelievable' they can pursue it in an intelligent journalistic manner as is the purpose of their job.

But as we nowadays mostly see, it is to regurgitate press releases and add a quote.

I doubt many jobs are on the line if they get the inside story on doping. Bad news sells.

I cant imagine many people if any cancelled their Daily Mail when Kimmage dared to call out Brailsford and Sky on their choice of Doctor, ie Leinders?

David Walsh is still Chief Sportswriter at The Sunday Times last time i looked even though he has been calling a spade a spade for years, including Armstrong calling a doper

I LIKE David Walsh, always have, always will, but he wrote about circumstantial evidence in his book, and he wrote about the book in Sunday Times, ensuring that LA filled his coffers, winning a settlement with the Times. AND Lance's career wasn't foreshortened, not even for a second, as a result of Walsh's deliberations.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

BAck on topic. If you want to discuss cycling journalists, please open another thread. As always, further off-topic postings will be deleted.

Susan

 

[Benotti69]

I LIKE David Walsh, always have, always will, but he wrote about circumstantial evidence in his book, and he wrote about the book in Sunday Times, ensuring that LA filled his coffers, winning a settlement with the Times. AND Lance's career wasn't foreshortened, not even for a second, as a result of Walsh's deliberations.

One voice was not enough.

Walsh isn't stupid. He cant write about any actual doping when the UCI/WADA have not announced a positive.

But he still had the balls to go after the biggest sporting fraud and point out all the dots that could only make the reader with half a brain come to one conclusion.

That is a hell of a lot more than the dedicated cycling journos are doing even now as their sport may be about to get struck out of the next IOC games and condemned to the gutter yet again.

But one thing Walsh did that was important was started sowing the seeds of doubt along with Kimmage, Ballestre and others they made sure that the voice of doubt was there, even though people chose to ignore it due to willful ignorance or hope for the impossible.

 

[thehog]

BAck on topic. If you want to discuss cycling journalists, please open another thread. As always, further off-topic postings will be deleted.

Susan

The UCIs letters and subsequent press statement actually made if worse for Armstrong & the UCI.

Anyone who was tilitering on the edge of still believing has now dropped. In addition people just don't like the tactics at play.

Kangaroo court indeed.

 

[python]

so the lines are drawn. as i predicted, wada threw its support behind usada.

however from here wada actions look very different from a maxed out, head-and-shoulders commitment of a virtual co-conspirator like the uci’s...iow, uci seems like it shut it’s wad whilst wada has plenty of wad (pun intended).

it is interesting and perhaps revealing to look at the differences in style, timing and methods of uci and wada involvement

Style
UCI - inconsistent. from muttering public support to complete about face in their official documents.
wada- always the same reserved message to all parties without excessive verbiage.

Timing
UCI- rushed with several almost hysterical letters obviously timed to produce affect before the hearing in texas federal court.
Wada - one letter to the uci and a brief press release issued only 3 days before the hearing.

Method
UCI - direct, full commitment involvement in federal proceedings on the side of one of the litigants.
WADA - not involved in direct way in the federal proceedings, not submitted an affidavit on its position though it’s rather unambiguous.

This brief analysis suggests that if the struggle gets elevated i simply don’t see much that the uci can do in support of it’s current position except a direct official appeal to cas to arbitrate it’s jurisdiction ?

 

[ManInFull]

With all due respect, this is either naive or wishful thinking.

We are talking about the biggest sporting fraud in the history of all sports here. Nothing even comes CLOSE. If Armstrong is stripped of his titles, the entire US and EU press will crucify him. Every single sports columnist in the world will write an editorial about what a terrible person he is, the guy who lied to kids with cancer, gave false hope to millions, and cheated to win while villifying those who spoke the truth.

I agree with your assessment. I hope that it happens before this year is out.

 

[Benotti69]

Cheers Python.

 

[thehog]

so the lines are drawn.

This brief analysis suggests that if the struggle gets elevated i simply don’t see much that the uci can do in support of it’s current position except a direct official appeal to cas to arbitrate it’s jurisdiction ?

The UCI can't appeal to CAS on jurisdiction. As the UCI doesn't adjudicate. It hands over to bodies that do. The UCI knows this hence why they suggest it goes to an independent body for review.

The UCI's motive is to see what USADA has as evidence. They want to know if they're in the cross hairs.

 

[Berzin]

The UCI's motive is to see what USADA has as evidence. They want to know if they're in the cross hairs.

The UCI's motive was to take control of the investigation, knock the USADA out of the way, and manipulate the process into irrelevance.

This way Armstrong remains king, Pat McQuaid gets re-elected and no one will question the myth ever again.

Too bad it probably won't happen like that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the last hurdle to the investigation is Judge Sparks.

If he rules against Armstrong, then what other possible roadblock could Armstrong and/or the UCI put in the path of the USADA?

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

The UCI's motive was to take control of the investigation, knock the USADA out of the way, and manipulate the process into irrelevance.

This way Armstrong remains king, Pat McQuaid gets re-elected and no one will question the myth ever again.

Too bad it probably won't happen like that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the last hurdle to the investigation is Judge Sparks.

If he rules against Armstrong, then what other possible roadblock could Armstrong and/or the UCI put in the path of the USADA?

I am fairly certain that this will not be made to go away, although I was also certain that the DOJ was not going to back down, which they did in an incredibly cowardly way.

 

[MacRoadie]

That way he loses the 7 tours and gets banned, but the evidence may not get public, and he can still make any claim about his athletic success he wants.

USADA would have an uncontested positive and sanction against someone who pulled out every dirty trick trying to beat them. What would motivate them NOT to make public their evidence? It's not like they've pulled any punches so far.

 

[Deagol]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20120807/wada-uci-lance-armstrong-case/index.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i...cy-uci-case-lance-armstrong-article-1.1131070

"The UCI's leadership has historically been deferential toward Armstrong, and corruption allegations against the UCI itself are part of USADA's case"



On another note, I wonder if Anne Gripper would have anything interesting to say about the UCI right about now?


also, someone in the NY Daily News made a comment regarding what is happening with Frank Schleck: Since the testing and the finding of the alleged violation have been made by the UCI as a competent body, the ALAD upon presentation of the test results can only make the final statement of of an alleged violation of a doping rule,”

So how can UCI and Lance possibly make serious their claims to a Federal Court last week? Only Lance gets to play by a whole new set of rules (still needing to be written)?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

so the lines are drawn. as i predicted, wada threw its support behind usada.

however from here wada actions look very different from a maxed out, head-and-shoulders commitment of a virtual co-conspirator like the uci’s...iow, uci seems like it shut it’s wad whilst wada has plenty of wad (pun intended).

it is interesting and perhaps revealing to look at the differences in style, timing and methods of uci and wada involvement

Style
UCI - inconsistent. from muttering public support to complete about face in their official documents.
wada- always the same reserved message to all parties without excessive verbiage.

Timing
UCI- rushed with several almost hysterical letters obviously timed to produce affect before the hearing in texas federal court.
Wada - one letter to the uci and a brief press release issued only 3 days before the hearing.

Method
UCI - direct, full commitment involvement in federal proceedings on the side of one of the litigants.
WADA - not involved in direct way in the federal proceedings, not submitted an affidavit on its position though it’s rather unambiguous.

This brief analysis suggests that if the struggle gets elevated i simply don’t see much that the uci can do in support of it’s current position except a direct official appeal to cas to arbitrate it’s jurisdiction ?

My thoughts on reading McQuaids intervention was to wonder was it a knee jerk reaction set up in haste after he got a call from Wonderboy?
The Lance likes to keep abreast of all info on him (Hi Lance) and Paddys comments about jurisdiction may not have gone unnoticed and he may have got "the call" asking him to get on the typewriter and tell USADA that they do not have jurisdiction.

 

[D-Queued]

Trek is on especially poor ground since it carried out Armstrong's vendetta against LeMond.

And lost.

With damages.

Would be a total win if the USADA also gave Trek a life ban

Wouldn't it be bliss if at the end of all of this the UCI refused to give Trek the new 'approved by' stickers?

Dave.

 

[sashimono]

...He will get his day in court. He is currently just arguing about which court that should be in, when exactly he should get access to the information, and whether or not his buddies at the UCI can intervene and stop the process altogther...

Excuse me if this has been posted already but I thought it was interesting that the UCI didn't intervene formally when they apparently could have...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/...I_s_Bark_is_Stronger_than_its_Bite__2970.html

 

[thehog]

My thoughts on reading McQuaids intervention was to wonder was it a knee jerk reaction set up in haste after he got a call from Wonderboy?
The Lance likes to keep abreast of all info on him (Hi Lance) and Paddys comments about jurisdiction may not have gone unnoticed and he may have got "the call" asking him to get on the typewriter and tell USADA that they do not have jurisdiction.

It could also be a case whereby UCI were just assisting Armstrong by bolstering his motion to Sparks. i.e. the UCI didn’t actually believe they had jurisdiction but they were assisting Armstrong in getting it moved across to the UCI so they could pull another Vjerjerm report on the situation. If the Judge moved to the UCI then they could claim it was a Federal ruling and they had to comply. The public statements tells me McQuaid didn’t think his letters would be made public and would just wait for the ruling. The watered down press release after the letters became public was weak – didn’t really indicate compelling support for Armstrong.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Perjury is a crime in the USA isn't it? If Lance perjured himself in the Times litigation then he could end up slopping out his bucket in Wormwood Scrubs.

Yes, but probably no prosecution. They got the Federal case swept away, a perjury case is probably not feasible. Should it be? Yes.

The problem with Wonderboy not contesting USADA is at minimum their resolution should lead to civil litigation given the number of deals done on fraudulent terms. My estimation is he and Weisel still taint the business side of cycling after the USADA events.

I still think the UCI and Weisel over at USAC have positioned the federation to ignore USADA's findings using some elaborate excuse.

I think the IOC hasn't played their hand yet either. So far, it hasn't infected the IOC brand. Should it threaten the perception of "the Olympics," then I think there's another Friday afternoon press release and it all evaporates.