USADA - Armstrong

[ManInFull]

I think the reason why Armstrong is beyond the pale for many of you is he is more like you than you care to admit. You both see yourselves as being the victims whilst in fact you are the bully.

I know that I should ignore this, but oh well. If LA cheated, he should get the same designation and treatment as others who cheated and were caught. That's all I want.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Can't this forum hire Dim as a consultant or something? Dish him some free schwag for administration advice.

Excellent idea

 

[TechnicalDescent]

I know that I should ignore this, but oh well. If LA cheated, he should get the same designation and treatment as others who cheated and were caught. That's all I want.

Thank you, I'll take that one. A sensible intervention.

I think at this stage some sort of punishment is unavoidable and probably necessary. The question I have is over the length and severity. Keeping it within the statute of limitations would seem appropriate and would hold the sport together much better than the somewhat absurd situation of making rulings back on 1999.

Thanks again.

 

[BroDeal]

Thank you, I'll take that one. A sensible intervention.

I think at this stage some sort of punishment is unavoidable and probably necessary. The question I have is over the length and severity. Keeping it within the statute of limitations would seem appropriate and would hold the sport together much better than the somewhat absurd situation of making rulings back on 1999.

Someone who is part of a doping conspiracy that encouraged, even required, teammates to dope deserves to face sanctions for the duration of the conspiracy.

Strip all seven. It's only fair.

Carthage must be destroyed.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Someone who is part of a doping conspiracy that encouraged, even required, teammates to dope deserves to face sanctions for the duration of the conspiracy.

Strip all seven. It's only fair.

Carthage must be destroyed.

Don't forget that Armstrong had the positive in 2001 (& even the one in 1999) so he should have been caught and punished then and have been sitting out a few Tours while suspended.

 

[gatete]

Hold on - you just said that I would want to go in to a 20 page of nonsence, and now you are looking for some quotes?

Go away.

My dear doctor:

I want you to know that I enjoy a lot of you very knowleable posts, but for the love of God, please stop responding to these people.

 

[Race Radio]

Don't forget that Armstrong had the positive in 2001 (& even the one in 1999) so he should have been caught and punished then and have been sitting out a few Tours while suspended.

Don't forget Armstrong elevated Hcg levels were ignored by the UCI.

His deal with Verburggen predates the 2001 ToS.

 

[joe_papp]

I wouldn't be so sure. I think he was setting it up for this a month ago, or some form of words that admits to mistakes. Then he saw the letter.

LA was probably going to do a documentary or book "If I did it".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It

Perhaps someone should start an office pool on who - if anyone - succumbs to the prisoner's dilemma and denounces his co-conspirators.

 

[gregod]

... Fumiyuki Beppu might have said something related but it's all a bunch of squiggly lines to me...

i checked his tweets. there is nothing there about this. just stuff about cooking and cycling events he is doing.

IMO, beppu was on the sauce, too when he was riding for bruyneel.

 

[JA.Tri]

Random thoughts

LA foresees impending financial disaster
LA transfers money to friends' accounts
Declares bankruptcy
Seeks money from friends and discovers "no friends"...the delicious irony of it ALL.

Yes sport will take a short term hammering.
However all parties from UCI down will realize the enormous risk one faces in doping into the future.
If the sport's "greatest? icon" can go down: man, am I good enough to get away with it?
Therefore, what an awesome future propholactic!

Eventually, if not now, I hope that this effort will be recognised as a sport willing to address its demons seriously (not just sweep them under the carpet).

Bjarne admitted doping, whereas LA did/has not. Not to my mind significant congruence; therefore significant potential for LA to be stripped (in event that it all pans out as I hope).

 

[fatsprintking]

I have read a bunch of Australian news media reports and forum posts. I give credit for the aussies being a lot more level headed than the typical prol we find in the U.S. One news article writer had the guts to draw the obvious conclusion that if Armstrong was doping in 2009 and 2010 then that means he was probably doping during the Tour Down Under. They even asked the organizer and politician responsible for funding for comments. It seems like a simple connection to make, but it is hard to find that type of thinking in America.

The situation with the TDU is that the South Australian Gov paid Lance to attend. (believed to be around 1 mil). There were lots of photo ops with the politicians and Mike Rand (premier) made announcements re funding for cancer research etc.

The point is that Lance being banned will likley bring up questions in parliament and I am sure there will be discussion re the exact contract that was used. Given that this was from the public purse it will be subject to political debate as the payment was questioned and opposed by many at the time even though it was seen to be a great success given the big crowds at the race.

 

[rata de sentina]

Anyone posted this yet I hope not it's a ripper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia6dV_G5UxE&feature=player_embedded

 

[JA.Tri]

corruption

In the Sandusky thread there is this link.

http://newslanc.com/six-decades-part-two.html

Effectively there is reference therein to political corruption and the "catch 22" (my words):

If a person is important* enough, they and the general public will/may posit:

Their reputations prevent them from being investigated. Their reputations would be besmirched if there was even any hint they were being investigated (most of this appears in the text of the above link. I have modified tense and abridged to suit the above therefore quotation mark not applied).

The current situation with LA and those arguing in support of LA, smacks of the very problem that existed in Sandusky et al.

My view is the "bigger" the person, the greater should be the will and diligence to ask the hard question. To argue to let them go (whatever justification) flies in the face of justice.

*all of us are of equal merit, it is the power or influence that differs

 

[rhubroma]

The situation with the TDU is that the South Australian Gov paid Lance to attend. (believed to be around 1 mil). There were lots of photo ops with the politicians and Mike Rand (premier) made announcements re funding for cancer research etc.

The point is that Lance being banned will likley bring up questions in parliament and I am sure there will be discussion re the exact contract that was used. Given that this was from the public purse it will be subject to political debate as the payment was questioned and opposed by many at the time even though it was seen to be a great success given the big crowds at the race.

Yes but how could the Aussies have been so stupid and ingenuous as to have consented to having the guy paid 1 mil from the public kitty to participate in the first place? The human tendency to believe in and fawn over its "heroes" and stars whenever business and publicity (propaganda) are involved is appalling, a fact that was only made grotesque by the politicians being photographed with the Texan. The Giro did likewise, though not with public money and purely cynically: that is nobody in the race organization actually believed he was clean, which makes it twice as appalling.

“This all leaves me a bit cold now. I’ve taken myself out of that world completely,” he said. “I just can’t understand how justice has taken this long. There was always evidence, but nothing was done. Is what they've got that much more crushing now? Armstrong was allowed to do whatever he wanted for years. He was a superhero, untouchable. Now this. I suppose it just shows how the balance has shifted; before, I think there were forces greater than our understanding working to protect him; now there’s probably also a reason why they’ve decided to take him down.

“We’ll see how it goes,” Simeoni summed up. “I prefer not to dwell too much, because I have too many regrets if I do. This whole business really cut me down in my prime. Now it’d be nice to just get justice, although I still fear that this could rumble on for months if not years.” - Filippo Simeoni

Simeoni says here what I have been saying for years. It's all about money and the market. This is why the sport, all pro sport, has become a farce. Ethical sport. Please.

 

[rata de sentina]

SSDD
Cancer shield at 110% captain, I don't think she'll take anymore.

Nice work although I'd suggest "She cannae take much more o' this captain."

 

[rata de sentina]

and the derailment is complete. this thread is now about trolling and nothing to do with the topic at hand

I blame Maserati who just can't help but bait it. Sure it's fun for a bit but Dr M just goes on and on......

 

[TubularBills]

“We’ll see how it goes,” Simeoni summed up. “I prefer not to dwell too much, because I have too many regrets if I do. This whole business really cut me down in my prime. Now it’d be nice to just get justice, although I still fear that this could rumble on for months if not years.”[/B] - Filippo Simeoni

Simeoni says here what I have been saying for years. It's all about money and the market. This is why the sport, all pro sport, has become a farce. Ethical sport. Please.

~ It is Born ~

Here, I came to the boundaries

where nothing needs to be said,

everything is learned with weather and ocean,

and the moon returned

with its lines silvered

and each time the shadow was broken

by the crash of a wave

and each day on the balcony of the sea

wings open, fire is born

and everything continues blue as the morning.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



If each day falls

Inside each night,

There exists a well

Where clarity is imprisoned.

We need to sit on the rim

Of the well of darkness

And fish for fallen light

With patience.

~ Neruda

We shall prevail. Persistence & Truth conquers evil.

 

[TexPat]

Thank you.

 

[joe_papp]

Yes but how could the Aussies have been so stupid and ingenuous to have consented to have paid the guy 1 mil from the public kitty to participate in the first place? The human tendency to believe in and fawn over its "heroes" and stars ...

I hear what you're saying, and at the same time, it doesn't seem that complicated to me - at least not from my perspective. Power is attractive. Witness the "media" fawning over Obama and the invited Hollywood guests at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, when they're supposed to represent this great "adversarial" body that holds those very elites (especially Obama) accountable - but they don't.


See Glenn Greenwald's "Dog-training the press corps"http://www.salon.com/2012/04/30/dog_training_the_press_corps/ for a scathing criticism of this dynamic:

"This weekend, the annual White House Correspondents’ Dinner was held, and it is — as Gawker‘s Hamilton Nolan explained in the best analysis ever of that event — the purest expression of the total blending of political power, media subservience, and vapid celebrity in one toxic, repulsive, and destructive package. It’s imperial rot — the Versailles virus — in its most virulent form. Of course, Stephen Colbert, in the best political speech of the last decade, used his appearance at that banquet in 2006 to clearly set forth the rules by which they function:

But, listen, let’s review the rules. Here’s how it works. The President makes decisions. He’s the decider. The press secretary announces those decisions, and you people of the press type those decisions down. Make, announce, type. Just put ‘em through a spell check and go home. Get to know your family again. Make love to your wife. Write that novel you got kicking around in your head. You know, the one about the intrepid Washington reporter with the courage to stand up to the administration? You know, fiction!

None of that has changed. When I first began writing about politics, I mistakenly thought that the bias of the Bush-worshipping establishment media was a pro-GOP bias. It isn’t (and it’s obviously not a “liberal bias”). That’s not how they function. They aren’t nearly so substantive as to be driven by any sort of belief or ideology or anything like that. Their religion is the worship of political power and authority (or, as Jay Rosen says, their religion is the Church of the Savvy). Royal court courtiers have long competed with one another to curry favor with the King and his minions in exchange for official favor, and this is just that dynamic. Political power is what can give them their treats — their “exclusive” interviews and getting tapped on their grateful heads to get secret documents and invited to White House functions and being allowed into the sacred Situation Room – so it’s what they revere and serve.

There are many words for this behavior. “Adversarial,” “independent,” and “watchdog” are, manifestly, not among them. But it produces many personal rewards for them..."


Soooo... Absent an effective system of checks and balances that forces personal accountability, you have humans making high-profile decisions like paying the appearance fee... (a real cynic might try to argue that said fee may have been paid despite the gov't's having an understanding of the allegations surrounding LA, and that the gov't elite(s) who could approve the expenditure did so hoping to capitalize in the short term off of associating w/ such celebrity - who knows...)

 

[ninja.]

"Leave Lance Armstrong Alone Already!!!! He gets off his **** and uses his "GO TIME" to mean something to the World. He inspires us to get out of our comfort zone and make your days EPIC. Can you say this for the Anti-doping Agency? What can you say to the Cancer patients worldwide. What Lance Armstrong has done for the History of Cycling has elevated to a place of ultimate human endurance . Look at Peter Sagan and his historic rise, are you going tho badger him like Lance. Remember Lance Armstrong at Leadville 100 in Colorado, ride a flat tire to the finish line for 6 miles. Its GO TIME for real heoes, not clowns of the government.!!!"

AHHH SHADDAP ABOUT YOUR GO TIME

 

[fatsprintking]

"Leave Lance Armstrong Alone Already!!!! He gets off his **** and uses his "GO TIME" to mean something to the World. He inspires us to get out of our comfort zone and make your days EPIC. Can you say this for the Anti-doping Agency? What can you say to the Cancer patients worldwide. What Lance Armstrong has done for the History of Cycling has elevated to a place of ultimate human endurance . Look at Peter Sagan and his historic rise, are you going tho badger him like Lance. Remember Lance Armstrong at Leadville 100 in Colorado, ride a flat tire to the finish line for 6 miles. Its GO TIME for real heoes, not clowns of the government.!!!"

AHHH SHADDAP ABOUT YOUR GO TIME

Light up another spliff and go back to chillin out to your muse records I reckon...

 

[TubularBills]

Thank you.

Thank you;

For playing an essential & integral part in unveiling this epic tragedy, despite great personal cost and sacrifice.

Heroic.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Off-topic or what?

Suspensions are being handed out.

Further off-topic discussions will entail an immediate suspension. No mercy.

Susan

 

[pastronef]

is his ban from IronMan thriathlons effective from NOW?

has there been an official ban handed from the USADA? can they do it before June 24 (Nice IronMan)?

IronMan is not Olympic sport

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

is his ban from IronMan thriathlons effective from NOW?

has there been an official ban handed from the USADA? can they do it before June 24 (Nice IronMan)?

IronMan is not Olympic sport

The USADA has not banned hm from Ironman. The Ironman organizers have banned him from their triathlons, effective immediately.

Susan