USADA - Armstrong

[JA.Tri]

I know the perfect spot.

http://cachecache.com/

Would be lovely...however my budget would be stretched and more importantly...I think we would be booted out...if they accepted our reservation in the first place.

 

[Deagol]

Would be lovely...however my budget would be stretched and more importantly...I think we would be booted out...if they accepted our reservation in the first place.

Those really fancy, snooty places are over-rated anyway..

 

[johnnycash]

In 5 years there won't be a Livestrong.

In 2 years he'll be close to broke.

In 1 year there won't be a 7 time Tour champion.

Big price to pay for being "clean".

Why?

The only person that can oust Lance, is in my eyes, himself. Even if Bruyneel said he was doing it, without evidence, whats the point?

If we get a Valverde style charge, with continued denial, then what will anybody gain?

We need a full-blown confession and that will never ever happen. There is still the possibility that he's clean too, I don't believe that but you have to say there is doubt.

 

[thehog]

Why?

The only person that can oust Lance, is in my eyes, himself. Even if Bruyneel said he was doing it, without evidence, whats the point?

If we get a Valverde style charge, with continued denial, then what will anybody gain?

We need a full-blown confession and that will never ever happen. There is still the possibility that he's clean too, I don't believe that but you have to say there is doubt.

He’s currently banned from any type of formalized sport. It’s the isolation which dements athletes. As I’ve said before he’s been fighting this for 2 years. Regardless of the outcome of USADA he has another 3-4 years of legal battles on tax, criminal and civil fronts. What gets people in the end is not the outcomes but the constant and slow turning wheel of legal fighting. You turn up to a legal meeting expecting some form of an outcome and its gets deferred to another meeting with further documents to be submitted. All of this costs money at a per day, per hour rate. Its soul destroying. Normal life does not continue when you’re in these types of disputes.

That’s what leads to confessions. People just can’t keep up with a legal position of withholding the truth. It’s so hard to do for extended periods of time. It’s hard to do when you’ve already told the truth.

It will break him. It already has.

Vanity Fair was such a long time ago.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Would be lovely...however my budget would be stretched and more importantly...I think we would be booted out...if they accepted our reservation in the first place.

Has the irony been lost on the lot of you.....?? Jeez, what's a guy gotta do to get a laugh around here......

 

[Berzin]

Somewhere inside..a little voice is urging me to suggest that we should plan a location and venue for a group Clinic celebration...
but I don't want to put a jinx on all the positive direction this is headed...:D

Listen to that little voice.

I vote for New York City as the venue for the gathering.

We could do a couple of laps around Central Park, and I'll be happy to point out all the dopers for you guys.

But I also agree that we should not count our chickens before they hatch. Right now anything can happen, and my sense is there is still a chance that a spanner will get thrown in the works and Armstrong walks away from this scot-free.

 

[D-Queued]

Has the irony been lost on the lot of you.....?? Jeez, what's a guy gotta do to get a laugh around here......

I think he got it... hence the 'getting booted out' part.

Dave.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

Why?

The only person that can oust Lance, is in my eyes, himself. Even if Bruyneel said he was doing it, without evidence, whats the point?

If we get a Valverde style charge, with continued denial, then what will anybody gain?

We need a full-blown confession and that will never ever happen. There is still the possibility that he's clean too, I don't believe that but you have to say there is doubt.

There is doubt for people who believe in tooth fairies and Scientology.

 

[Irish2009]

If it is ever heard, if Bruneel says "yes Lance took epo on x date and doctor Del Moral was there as was Big George" and big George and Moral also confirm the incedent then it dosent matter what Armstrong does or says, there if evidence in the form of corroberated eye witness testemony, I would assume that this is the way US law would work?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Listen to that little voice.

I vote for New York City as the venue for the gathering.

We could do a couple of laps around Central Park, and I'll be happy to point out all the dopers for you guys.

But I also agree that we should not count our chickens before they hatch.

That shouldn't be the end of the game for anyone. We can be pretty sure this will go to CAS. Hopefully, CAS won't cook something up as generically forgiving as the Contador conclusion. AFTER CAS is when the real fun begins.

As RaceRadio states, it will be a slow, expensive grind for him from here on out. The end goal should be felony indictments for Tailwind members because I think it isn't a controversial idea that Wonderboy was the talent and he had a team actually build the myth.

We haven't even touched upon hopeful consequences at the UCI due to the strong link Wonderboy has with Hein/Pat. USAC is untouched as of right now and we know they are in it up to their necks. A very long way to go yet.

I'll celebrate much later. Ideally, the competitive sport is cleaner by then and many fewer kids coming up will have no trouble saying no to a doping program. That's when I'll celebrate.

 

[Race Radio]

It is unfortunate that the only media in the courtroom were "Reporters" with long time ties to propping up the myth.

The judge only brought up the lack of specificity in the charging letter once. Once Bock explained why it was written that way the judge never revisited it. Conversely the judge brought up multiple times throughout the hearing that Armstrong had signed an agreement.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If it is ever heard, if Bruneel says "yes Lance took epo on x date and doctor Del Moral was there as was Big George" and big George and Moral also confirm the incedent then it dosent matter what Armstrong does or says, there if evidence in the form of corroberated eye witness testemony, I would assume that this is the way US law would work?

Arbitration is different than criminal or civil procedure. So, "evidence" and burden of proof and all that are substantially different and seem to be much lower. You've reached the end of my legal expertise.

I think your example is sufficient evidence in arbitration. IANAL though.

 

[Stingray34]

It is unfortunate that the only media in the courtroom were "Reporters" with long time ties to propping up the myth.

The judge only brought up the lack of specificity in the charging letter once. Once Bock explained why it was written that way the judge never revisited it. Conversely the judge brought up multiple times throughout the hearing that Armstrong had signed an agreement.

What was Armstrong's counsel's response to this?

I've seen some AAP reports that feature quotes exclusively from the LA camp and lend credence to the perception of a witch hunt.

EDIT: I understand Lance was there. What was his demeanor?

 

[Turner29]

Its soul destroying. Normal life does not continue when you’re in these types of disputes.

I was on the winning side of an arbitration dispute with a former employer. While in the end I won a substantial amount, I can attest to the stress of such disputes, especially as they drag on.

Time is the biggest ally of a guilty party. My former employer dragged things on and on, one reason of course being to get into a statute of limitations issue.

 

[D-Queued]

What was Armstrong's counsel's response to this?

I've seen some AAP reports that feature quotes exclusively from the LA camp and lend credence to the perception of a witch hunt.

EDIT: I understand Lance was there. What was his demeanor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V65uOA_k7ZI&feature=relmfu

Dave.

 

[Race Radio]

What was Armstrong's counsel's response to this?

I've seen some AAP reports that feature quotes exclusively from the LA camp and lend credence to the perception of a witch hunt.

EDIT: I understand Lance was there. What was his demeanor?

They responded with the same babble as their filings

AP report was by a fanboy who has propped up the myth for years

Lance was not there

 

[thehog]

I was on the winning side of an arbitration dispute with a former employer. While in the end I won a substantial amount, I can attest to the stress of such disputes, especially as they drag on.

Time is the biggest ally of a guilty party. My former employer dragged things on and on, one reason of course being to get into a statute of limitations issue.

Correct. Time is the killer

I've seen good people just break under the stress and give in. It bakes them and their families. They just can maintain the formalised approach to legal proceedings. I've seen people remortgage their homes thinking they’re about to settle and they’ll pay back the money to see it go on another 6-12-18-24 months and burn through the remortgage and more.

When you’re defending the un-defendable as Armstrong is its particularly stressful. Especially when you have nothing else to do.

 

[red_flanders]

The only person that can oust Lance, is in my eyes, himself. Even if Bruyneel said he was doing it, without evidence, whats the point?

Eyewitness testimony is evidence.

 

[red_flanders]

There is doubt for people who believe in tooth fairies and Scientology.

Great user name! I have engaged in that particular masochism more than a few times myself.

 

[snackattack]

Lance was not there

¿Why should he, it's a win-win anyway !

 

[eleven]

Herman is a joke, he is consistently been one of the weakest parts of Wonderboy's team of paid liars. Fail is his specialty

You were making similar claims during the federal investigation. How'd that work out for ya?

 

[mewmewmew13]

They responded with the same babble as their filings

AP report was by a fanboy who has propped up the myth for years

Lance was not there

Lance was in Leadville on Friday / sat ...he was the guest speaker before the group of Leadville 100-ites...how inspirational.
Then it appears he swung over to Steamboat for his rout of the locals in the trail marathon...

 

[Race Radio]

You were making similar claims during the federal investigation. How'd that work out for ya?

You are celebrating at 1/2 time again. Don't worry, your hero's entanglements with the Federal government are far from over

 

[snackattack]

You are celebrating at 1/2 time again. Don't worry, your hero's entanglements with the Federal government are far from over

This pathetic fallacy was over before it even began.

** deleted by mod ***

 

[Turner29]

Correct. Time is the killer

I've seen good people just break under the stress and give in. It bakes them and their families. They just can maintain the formalised approach to legal proceedings. I've seen people remortgage their homes thinking they’re about to settle and they’ll pay back the money to see it go on another 6-12-18-24 months and burn through the remortgage and more.

When you’re defending the un-defendable as Armstrong is its particularly stressful. Especially when you have nothing else to do.

That is exactly what happened. They stalled and stalled, then in the arbitration, played more games. My biggest mistake was not having a pre-agreed figure with my attorneys; instead, I was put into on the spot pressure of having to accept less than my minimum. If I only knew then what I now know...