USADA - Armstrong

[Turner29]

Lance was in Leadville on Friday / sat ...he was the guest speaker before the group of Leadville 100-ites...how inspirational...

Doping pointers?

 

[Turner29]

You are celebrating at 1/2 time again. Don't worry, your hero's entanglements with the Federal government are far from over

To use another football term, the Feds merely punted.

However, after all is said and done, I do not think they are going to prosecute him, one reason being that juries are easily manipulated -- re: USA vs. Clemmens.

Being humiliated, stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, paying back millions, plus fees and interest to SCA Promotions, and countless other civil suits will be enough punishment in their eyes.

 

[thehog]

That is exactly what happened. They stalled and stalled, then in the arbitration, played more games. My biggest mistake was not having a pre-agreed figure with my attorneys; instead, I was put into on the spot pressure of having to accept less than my minimum. If I only knew then what I now know...

I’m sorry to hear that. All companies have a minimum payout. They prefer to pay up front than go to arbitration. But depending on the type of case they’ll do what you describe and draw it out as much as possible. Especially if the person is no longer working or suspended. The isolation is what kills them. I’ve seen people who know the game and have been let go put in a case for unfair dismissal (when clearly it wasn’t) then accept a minimum payment before arbitration. Others fight. And fight and fight knowing they’ve been wronged to get a 60k payment after spending 40k on lawyers and not working for 12 months. Seeing lawyer statements roll through the door not only charging you the hourly rate but for paperclips and photocopying starts to grate when you’ve already dropped significant amounts of money.

 

[MarkvW]

To use another football term, the Feds merely punted.

However, after all is said and done, I do not think they are going to prosecute him, one reason being that juries are easily manipulated -- re: USA vs. Clemmens.

Being humiliated, stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, paying back millions, plus fees and interest to SCA Promotions, and countless other civil suits will be enough punishment in their eyes.

The USPS criminal stuff is dead. That stuff is ancient now.

The qui tam is apparently not dead (and could cause gargantuan problems for Lance). There may be other federal criminal investigations that touch Lance (and there has been a slight hint of one when Johan was met at the airport by maybe feds in CA), but that's pure speculation.

 

[Turner29]

I’m sorry to hear that. All companies have a minimum payout. They prefer to pay up front than go to arbitration. But depending on the type of case they’ll do what you describe and draw it out as much as possible. Especially if the person is no longer working or suspended. The isolation is what kills them. I’ve seen people who know the game and have been let go put in a case for unfair dismissal (when clearly it wasn’t) then accept a minimum payment before arbitration. Others fight. And fight and fight knowing they’ve been wronged to get a 60k payment after spending 40k on lawyers and not working for 12 months. Seeing lawyer statements roll through the door not only charging you the hourly rate but for paperclips and photocopying starts to grate when you’ve already dropped significant amounts of money.

Thankfully, I was on a contingency, so I did not have to pay fees out of pocket.

By a minimum, I mean one agreed to by myself and my lawyers, before the arbitration. For example -- suppose I am aiming for suing for $1 MM, hoping for $750K, but in the end would take $500K as a bare minimum. That last figure should have been agreed with my lawyers before the day of. Anything less then $500K and we walk -- at least as a negotiating tactic.

Instead, on the spot I needed to decide on their 'last and final" offer, which was below my minimum. From this, I learn about the downside of contingency. Lawyers make business decisions and sometimes theirs -- a quick $100K+ for not a whole lot of work, was right for them.

But Lance is different, his stalling tactics work in a different fashion. Perhaps he thinks he has more money than the USADA. Time means the opportunity garner more public support -- showing up at the Leadville 100. It also means more opportunity to obfuscate, as with the UCI "clouding" the jurisdiction question.

 

[Race Radio]

To use another football term, the Feds merely punted.

However, after all is said and done, I do not think they are going to prosecute him, one reason being that juries are easily manipulated -- re: USA vs. Clemmens.

Being humiliated, stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, paying back millions, plus fees and interest to SCA Promotions, and countless other civil suits will be enough punishment in their eyes.

There is more then one way to skin a cat. Doesn't have to be jail, could be $$$'

The public hate it when rich people get special treatment. Doesn't matter if it is paying on the UCI or getting his political pals to make lots of phone calls

It will all come out, and it will be ugly

 

[eleven]

You are celebrating at 1/2 time again. Don't worry, your hero's entanglements with the Federal government are far from over

Uh huh. I'm not sure what's more absurd: The "hero" claim or your ongoing prediction.

Hemassist anyone?

 

[Deagol]

how was his reception by the crowd at Leadville ?

 

[eleven]

To use another football term, the Feds merely punted.

However, after all is said and done, I do not think they are going to prosecute him, one reason being that juries are easily manipulated -- re: USA vs. Clemmens.

Being humiliated, stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, paying back millions, plus fees and interest to SCA Promotions, and countless other civil suits will be enough punishment in their eyes.

How was the jury "manipulated" in the Clemens case? The most reliable piece of evidence was "DNA evidence" stored in a beer can for years.

They weren't manipulated. They were offered all of the facts as both sides saw them and they could not reach teh burden of proof.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You were making similar claims during the federal investigation. How'd that work out for ya?

The Fed investigation? If you think Herman is so good why did the Lance have to get some heavyweights lawyers with political clout on his team?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

How often must I say, everyone keep cool!

The most important thing to realize is that none of us really know what is going to happen. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their prediction.

Belittling or insulting someone for their opinion IS NOT allowed.

Susan

 

[snackattack]

There is more then one way to skin a cat. Doesn't have to be jail, could be $$$'

The public hate it when rich people get special treatment. Doesn't matter if it is paying on the UCI or getting his political pals to make lots of phone calls

It will all come out, and it will be ugly

- Not a penny !!!!!!!!!!!

- Lawstrong is Man of Mark to that same public, "to be on the high side" isn't it RR ....

- This blatant propaganda for own wallet is outthere for a decade now, it's inhumane and the general public is sick of it, what's so cool about taking Lawstrong hostage and demand ransom.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

- Not a penny !!!!!!!!!!!

- Lawstrong is Man of Mark to that same public, "to be on the high side" isn't it RR ....

- This blatant propaganda for own wallet is outthere for a decade now, it's inhumane and the general public is sick of it, what's so cool about taking Lawstrong hostage and demand ransom.

Uh....whuck?

 

[thehog]

How often must I say, everyone keep cool!

The most important thing to realize is that none of us really know what is going to happen. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their prediction.

Belittling or insulting someone for their opinion IS NOT allowed.

Susan

I know what's going to happen.

 

[Turner29]

There is more then one way to skin a cat. Doesn't have to be jail, could be $$$'

The public hate it when rich people get special treatment. Doesn't matter if it is paying on the UCI or getting his political pals to make lots of phone calls

It will all come out, and it will be ugly

Exactly. Coincidence that the USADA charged Armstrong only months after the US DA terminated the Grand Jury investigation?

I think not.

 

[mewmewmew13]

how was his reception by the crowd at Leadville ?

I'm not sure...my friend's husband was there as a rider. Will ask her in the morning "...

I'm guessing some fawning and some sneering...

 

[Racelap]

Somewhere inside..a little voice is urging me to suggest that we should plan a location and venue for a group Clinic celebration...
but I don't want to put a jinx on all the positive direction this is headed...

Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop, Austin TX. Or might that be rubbing it in a bit too much?

 

[mewmewmew13]

Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop, Austin TX. Or might that be rubbing it in a bit too much?

Hehe
No. I go crazy when I get around too much yellow and black

 

[Velodude]

You were making similar claims during the federal investigation. How'd that work out for ya?

But you are celebrating by misinterpreting that the Fed investigation was dropped through lack of evidence to prosecute and not the real cause - political intervention arising from Livestrong's hard fought funds being misdirected to create a favor for Armstrong.

But there could have been another reason which may now appear to be probable.

In February I wrote:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=785595&postcount=934

Have you ever considered there could be an arrangement between the US Attorney's office and USADA?

In the guidelines of the US Attorney's manual the US Attorney can decline criminal prosecution if an alternative exists as stated:

"There exists an adequate non-criminal alternative to prosecution."

USADA sanctions for non qualitative positives for doping would strip Armstrong of at least 3 TdF wins and up to all 7 wins, yellow jerseys and monetary prizes.

It was very noticeable that USADA responded very quickly to the US Attorneys Office's media release of 5.00pm Friday. WADA was a number of days behind.

 

[Deagol]

I'm not sure...my friend's husband was there as a rider. Will ask her in the morning "...

I'm guessing some fawning and some sneering...

Thanks, will be intereting to see how he was received.
(this is all assuming Ken gave the speech pre-race)


I remember the Leadville movie from Lance's victory year, Ken Chlouber was embarrassing himself drooling over Lance. He has an emotional investment in him
Ken was wearing shorts & mountaineering boots (the Mt Everest kind) at Silver Rush this summer. Strange taste that guy has…..

 

[Race Radio]

Exactly. Coincidence that the USADA charged Armstrong only months after the US DA terminated the Grand Jury investigation?

I think not.

USADA was as shocked as was everyone involved in the investigation.

 

[Velodude]

Mellow Johnny's Bike Shop, Austin TX. Or might that be rubbing it in a bit too much?

Nope, already read complaints about the quality of the coffee and service. It's popularity, if that exists, is because it serves primarily as a shrine.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Nope, already read complaints about the quality of the coffee and service. It's popularity, if that exists, is because it serves primarily as a shrine.

I have been there - coffee was fine (not fantastic, but not bad) service was very good and I used there free wifi to post on here

Anyhow, forget Cache Cache or Mellow Johnnies - we'll all meet at the Yellow Rose.

 

[Deagol]

Oh come on, there are female clinic members also who may not prefer the Yellow Rose, I propose the Small Echo Chamber Cafe

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

... we'll all meet at the Yellow Rose.

Yes yes, twould be noble of the clinicians to do their part to support single moms.