USADA - Armstrong

[ChewbaccaD]

I'm not worried about Armstrong v. Tygart and USADA.

Next, a UCI/USAC lawsuit vs. USADA/WADA is possible. But why hasn't that happened already? UCI might not want discovery obligations in such a case, plus they might not want to irrevocably break with WADA.

Other than such a lawsuit, nothing is going to disturb USADA.

Then, there's CAS, where anything can happen.

Then I expect the UCI and USAC to do everything possible to undermine and suppress the outcome.

Then, I hope there will be a big leak.

Intervening in Armstrong's case would be a PR nightmare for the UCI. Any air of impartiality that they are pretending to have would evaporate even if legally it would not necessarily indicate any shared front against the USADA. They are much better off instigating such a proceeding and keeping Armstrong as a 3rd party who is not intertwined with their case (if such a case comes, and I honestly think it will) in any way. Armstrong is toxic, and ultimately, I am sure they know that the evidence is overwhelming. Why get wrapped up with someone like that. Armstrong is becoming a pariah the longer this goes on, I mean, even the politicians are running for cover.

 

[thehog]

Intervening in Armstrong's case would be a PR nightmare for the UCI. Any air of impartiality that they are pretending to have would evaporate even if legally it would not necessarily indicate any shared front against the USADA. They are much better off instigating such a proceeding and keeping Armstrong as a 3rd party who is not intertwined with their case (if such a case comes, and I honestly think it will) in any way. Armstrong is toxic, and ultimately, I am sure they know that the evidence is overwhelming. Why get wrapped up with someone like that. Armstrong is becoming a pariah the longer this goes on, I mean, even the politicians are running for cover.

I would agree. It's also sets precedence. The UCI are in a right muddle right now.

The funniest thing is if they were handed the case I'm not sure they'd know what to do.

 

[argyllflyer]

I would agree. It's also sets precedence. The UCI are in a right muddle right now.

The funniest thing is if they were handed the case I'm not sure they'd know what to do.

 

[Oldman]

If they had wished to muddy the waters for Sparks J Armstrong & cohorts would have, behind the scenes, from the outset arranged for UCI and USAC to file briefs as court acceptable amicus curiae in challenging USADA's position.

Armstrong's lawyers must have had supreme confidence in their strategy to delay and beat USADA into submission with longer pockets not to exercise all delaying options.

And we all know that UCI has a cache of substantial funds off balance sheet with the Japanese Keiran crowd from that Olympic bribe so as not to call up a further donation from LA (a la Vrijman Report in 2006).

Ah, but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful tool!

At last! We know what Armstrong's donations were for...except that he'll need to keep donating.

 

[Oldman]

Intervening in Armstrong's case would be a PR nightmare for the UCI. Any air of impartiality that they are pretending to have would evaporate even if legally it would not necessarily indicate any shared front against the USADA. They are much better off instigating such a proceeding and keeping Armstrong as a 3rd party who is not intertwined with their case (if such a case comes, and I honestly think it will) in any way. Armstrong is toxic, and ultimately, I am sure they know that the evidence is overwhelming. Why get wrapped up with someone like that. Armstrong is becoming a pariah the longer this goes on, I mean, even the politicians are running for cover.

I would agree about the toxic nature of defending him and their bleatings to this point might be just trying to stay vital enough to defend themselves. UCI's #1 and former #1 probably know everything that is already in USADA's hands; unless they couldn't keep track of all the dealings.

 

[Pazuzu]

I would agree. It's also sets precedence. The UCI are in a right muddle right now.

The funniest thing is if they were handed the case I'm not sure they'd know what to do.

Well we all know what the outcome would be -- Lance absolved of all wrong doing. The only question would be how long they'd "deliberate" before issuing a ruling and what they'd base their ruling on. They wouldn't have the luxury of simply dropping the investigation without comment on Super Bowl weekend.

 

[eleven]

But you are celebrating by misinterpreting that the Fed investigation was dropped through lack of evidence to prosecute and not the real cause - political intervention arising from Livestrong's hard fought funds being misdirected to create a favor for Armstrong.

No, Velodude. That's you speculating on why it might have been dropped. In both cases.

The fact is it was dropped.

An agreement as you propose between USADA and The Dept of Justice would almost certainly be illegal.

 

[eleven]

I would be as equally shocked. I just can't see anyway the court has jurisdiction. I hope I'm not missing something.

I've read a fair amount and I see no obvious route to a judge deciding the court should have jurisdiction over an issue that both sides agreed to arbitrate. It just doesn't add up.

With the caveat: Stranger things have happened.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I've read a fair amount and I see no obvious route to a judge deciding the court should have jurisdiction over an issue that both sides agreed to arbitrate. It just doesn't add up.

With the caveat: Stranger things have happened.

That they have. You just never know.

 

[Oldman]

I've read a fair amount and I see no obvious route to a judge deciding the court should have jurisdiction over an issue that both sides agreed to arbitrate. It just doesn't add up.
With the caveat: Stranger things have happened.

Unless one side entered into the relationship with a clear and provable intent to defraud; casting the contractural obligations of the other party into doubt. But wait. Is that what Lance's attorneys would suggest...about whom? Failure to arbitrate by one party usually ends up in an unfavorable judgement against that party. The damage consequences are usually resolved in civil court and potentially resolved by a judge or settlement.
It would be a warp of logic not seen even in Texas for that to happen.

 

[Turner29]

That seems like the very last thing Lance would ever want to reveal as that means admitting a positive test.
Perhaps his end game plan is to go down fighting, having made the point that USADA's investigation is a witch hunt and that they were out to get him all along. Eventually loosing some or all of his tour wins after a closed arbitration hearing, which he finally agrees to, but only with the caveat that the records stay sealed. He can then continue with a certain large part of public opinion still on the side of his being railroaded and wrongfully stripped of his wins.
Maybe not a great outcome as far as he's concerned, but much better than actually having to confess all.

Only the arbitration decision is made public. Detailed testimony is not.

More important, the USADA is not going negotiate arbitration "rules" with Armstrong -- they already exist.

Assuming that Sparks rules in favor of the USADA, Armstrong has two choices:

1) Arbitrate in with the established USADA procedures;

2) Accept the charges and penalty without mediation.

 

[Turner29]

I've read a fair amount and I see no obvious route to a judge deciding the court should have jurisdiction over an issue that both sides agreed to arbitrate. It just doesn't add up.

With the caveat: Stranger things have happened.

95% of us seem to agree with you...

 

[thehog]

Well we all know what the outcome would be -- Lance absolved of all wrong doing. The only question would be how long they'd "deliberate" before issuing a ruling and what they'd base their ruling on. They wouldn't have the luxury of simply dropping the investigation without comment on Super Bowl weekend.

I read on Judge Sparks's Twitter feed that it was poker night at his house tonight. He mentioned they dispensed with the cards and himself and follow judge friends read out loud the UCI's letters. They all got a right royal laugh out of Pat's writing style which look to be written on an iPhone keyboard at the pub. Sparks said its like they were written by a 4 year old but then he realized that was offensive to all the four year olds out there.

One of the Judges detected the writing style and believed it was very similar to Brandi from the Yellow Rose. She's a good girl.

 

[Cal_Joe]

But you are celebrating by misinterpreting that the Fed investigation was dropped through lack of evidence to prosecute and not the real cause - political intervention arising from Livestrong's hard fought funds being misdirected to create a favor for Armstrong.

No, Velodude. That's you speculating on why it might have been dropped. In both cases.

The fact is it was dropped.

I am not sure it is appropriate to destroy a Clinic Myth. Mr. Eleven, you are asking for trouble.

More Clinic Myths -

USADA was as shocked as was everyone involved in the investigation.

I would be interested if Velodude or Race Radio could back up either of their claims.

A bit of chatter on Twitter lately regarding a simile to religion versus a more objective, or unemotional, analysis (in other words, posters pushing wish lists, promoting Myths, etc. as Undoubtedly The Way Things Happened).

Some here think that social media may have the power to change things with cycling; I think that SM is a viable force and that effecting change through SM can happen. But when myths are propagated and can be dismissed as possible wish lists, that does not do anything to advance the changes cycling needs.

 

[Race Radio]

I am not sure it is appropriate to destroy a Clinic Myth. Mr. Eleven, you are asking for trouble.

More Clinic Myths -



I would be interested if Velodude or Race Radio could back up either of their claims.

A bit of chatter on Twitter lately regarding a simile to religion versus a more objective, or unemotional, analysis (in other words, posters pushing wish lists, promoting Myths, etc. as Undoubtedly The Way Things Happened).

Some here think that social media may have the power to change things with cycling; I think that SM is a viable force and that effecting change through SM can happen. But when myths are propagated and can be dismissed as possible wish lists, that does not do anything to advance the changes cycling needs.

It has been a hard year Joe.....not my fault your boy is in trouble

the agencies involved in the investigation, the FBI, the FDA, the US Postal Service, there is surprise, even shock and anger about the US Attorney’s decision,” he said on today’s NPR sports news. “Those agencies reportedly only got about a half hour notice that the decision was going to be announced. And this was after there had been indications that prosecutors were preparing to indict Armstrong and others on federal crimes, including mail fraud, drug distribution, wire fraud, witness tampering.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...nvestigation-lance-armstrong-looks-suspicious

The prosecutors in Birotte's office had prepared a formal written recommendation on the evidence that supported the suggested charges. Sources familiar with the agents' work told ESPN.com that the prosecutors and agents were interviewing witnesses as late as last Thursday and Friday, as Birotte scheduled his announcement. They were anticipating an indictment in a few weeks and had no idea that their two years of work was about to come to a sudden end.

the agents and prosecutors were caught by surprise when Birotte announced - just as the nation's sporting press was focused on the final preparations for Super Bowl XLVI between the Giants and the Patriots in Indianapolis -- that he has closed the investigation.

Interesting how close to accurate that article was at the time. Going to be fun when the real story of the political, and other, pressure comes out.

 

[MarkvW]

It has been a hard year Joe.....not my fault your boy is in trouble





http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...nvestigation-lance-armstrong-looks-suspicious





Interesting how close to accurate that article was at the time. Going to be fun when the real story of the political, and other, pressure comes out.

You are spinning such B.S. with this post. The evidence points just as much to an honorable prosecution as it does to the silly conspiracy/influence theory you are assiduously promoting.

Hate to tell you, but cops get disappointed with prosecutors ALL THE TIME. That's not news.

Keep on spinning your myth that Lance Armstrong defeated a federal prosecution, but please spin the myth in a thread where that myth is on topic.

 

[Race Radio]

You are spinning such B.S. with this post. The evidence points just as much to an honorable prosecution as it does to the silly conspiracy/influence theory you are assiduously promoting.

Hate to tell you, but cops get disappointed with prosecutors ALL THE TIME. That's not news.

Keep on spinning your myth that Lance Armstrong defeated a federal prosecution, but please spin the myth in a thread where that myth is on topic.

Don't worry Mark. I will not hold you to this post.

 

[Turner29]

Don't worry Mark. I will not hold you to this post.

Honestly, I cannot believe that Barack Obama would consider prosecution of Lance Armstrong as a potential political threat. I would even find it hard to believe he was following the case at all.

Again, most likely once the DA found there was enough evidence to bring charges against Armstrong, he did the smart thing: let the USADA do its job first.

Nothing prevents the DA from reopening the case should Armstrong be found guilty of doping by the USADA. In fact, such is a smart, very smart prerequisite, given Clemens' acquittal and the slap on the wrist to Bonds, both far less popular athletes than Armstrong.

 

[MarkvW]

Honestly, I cannot believe that Barack Obama would consider prosecution of Lance Armstrong as a potential political threat. I would even find it hard to believe he was following the case at all.

Again, most likely once the DA found there was enough evidence to bring charges against Armstrong, he did the smart thing: let the USADA do its job first.

Nothing prevents the DA from reopening the case should Armstrong be found guilty of doping by the USADA. In fact, such is a smart, very smart prerequisite, given Clemens' acquittal and the slap on the wrist to Bonds, both far less popular athletes than Armstrong.

The USPS stuff is ancient now. There may be other criminal stuff (or the qui tam), but not USPS contract fraud stuff or USPS doping stuff.

 

[eleven]

It has been a hard year Joe.....not my fault your boy is in trouble





http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...nvestigation-lance-armstrong-looks-suspicious





Interesting how close to accurate that article was at the time. Going to be fun when the real story of the political, and other, pressure comes out.

wait...the prosecutors in a federal case were shocked (SHOCKED I tell ya!) that their case wasn't viable?

Color me surprised.

Mr Clemens, please report to room seven.

 

[Cal_Joe]

It has been a hard year Joe.....

Sorry RR - another RR Fail. Any time you would actually present anything that could back up this assertion -

USADA was as shocked as was everyone involved in the investigation.

I am sure that the clinic readers would love it. You can post links that do not have anything to do with everyone involved in the investigation, but to use your own words, it appears that the (RR) obfuscation machine is geared up.

Damn, I feel like I am invoking a dreaded vortex on someone.

Again - can you give us any info regarding the shock felt by everyone involved in the investigation.

FYI, everyone is an all encompassing word. I would be very disappointed if this was another clinic myth.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Sorry RR - another RR Fail. Any time you would actually present anything that could back up this assertion -



I am sure that the clinic readers would love it. You can post links that do not have anything to do with everyone involved in the investigation, but to use your own words, it appears that the (RR) obfuscation machine is geared up.

Damn, I feel like I am invoking a dreaded vortex on someone.

Again - can you give us any info regarding the shock felt by everyone involved in the investigation.

FYI, everyone is an all encompassing word. I would be very disappointed if this was another clinic myth.

You know Joe, you seem to be a pretty intelligent guy. Why not stop doing drive-by personal attacks and maybe contribute something substantive. I for one would appreciate knowing what you think of what is happening now that we do know about. This is a sincere request, so if you feel the need to flame, know that I am not trying to be snarky in any way.

 

[Velodude]

Sorry RR - another RR Fail. Any time you would actually present anything that could back up this assertion -



I am sure that the clinic readers would love it. You can post links that do not have anything to do with everyone involved in the investigation, but to use your own words, it appears that the (RR) obfuscation machine is geared up.

Damn, I feel like I am invoking a dreaded vortex on someone.

Again - can you give us any info regarding the shock felt by everyone involved in the investigation.

FYI, everyone is an all encompassing word. I would be very disappointed if this was another clinic myth.

Joe, true to form you are continuing to nit pick around the fringes.

Markvw, you putting your name up as a moderator?

 

[Cal_Joe]

Joe, true to form you are continuing to nit pick around the fringes.

Sorry Velodude - another Velodude fail. The question of why the Fed investigation was ended has never been a "fringe" topic in these here parts.

And your failure to back up your recent posts on this topic speaks volumes.....

No, Velodude. That's you speculating on why it might have been dropped. In both cases.

The fact is it was dropped.

Do you have anything you can add to that response? Please don't tell me your post was another clinic myth.

Damn, dropping another vortex. They make me dizzy.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You know Joe, you seem to be a pretty intelligent guy. Why not stop doing drive-by personal attacks and maybe contribute something substantive. I for one would appreciate knowing what you think of what is happening now that we do know about. This is a sincere request, so if you feel the need to flame, know that I am not trying to be snarky in any way.

I would bet real money he is not up to it.