USADA - Armstrong

[senatorrick]

That 465,000 is as good as Monica's stained dress. He should call slick Willy for advise.

 

[Boeing]

If $465,000 is the going price for interval training plans, Carmichael Training Systems really needs to rethink their pricing structure.

Chris Comical is one guy close to lance i'd like to see fall

did you know that light weight and high reps and lots of water are the key to lance's success? yea and it's in my book...

 

[Boeing]

That 465,000 is as good as Monica's stained dress. He should call slick Willy for advise.

red alert, scott has a sock puppet account

 

[mastersracer]

if you're watching Tour de Suisse right now - pretty strange Levi withdrew his name from Olympic consideration...

 

[Merckx index]

Has this been posted yet? Response of LA’s attorney Luskin to the charges:

http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2012/0614/armstrongbockIIltrfinal.pdf

I can't copy and paste from this document.

Main points:

1) Luskin claims he had been willing to meet with USADA to discuss the scope of the investigation
2) Notes that usually the process begins with a positive test, and the athlete has all the relevant facts for that. Whereas here, they are not allowed to know anything about the identity of the witnesses and the specific charges.
3) The charge of suspicious blood parameters requires laboratory documentation which should have been sent to them
4) Hellebuyck is not a valid precedent, in particular, Hellebuyck admitted he doped prior to the end of the SOL.

Also briefly summarized here:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...strong-lawyers-want-evidence-names-usada-case

But Armstrong's team is taking a chapter from Roger Clemens' narrative: Those unnamed witnesses supported a version of the truth they were forced to tell in order to receive some sort of immunity for their own transgressions. They could either say Armstrong doped, or they could be targeted for doping accusations supported by the testimony of Armstrong's former teammates and accusers, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton.

"We're focused on what we understand to be a corrupt bargain USADA made with other riders and said, essentially, 'Here's the script, and if you cooperate, you get a complete pass,'" said Robert Luskin, one of Armstrong's attorneys. "And if you refuse, we'll use Landis and Hamilton against you and you'll never ride again."

Luskin sent USADA a letter Wednesday night demanding any laboratory or documentary records, and the names of the witnesses against him, in advance of the review panel hearing. Luskin said they are concerned with a specific USADA accusation that blood tests taken in 2009 and 2010 are "fully consistent with blood manipulation, including EPO use and/or blood transfusions."

"They refer to 2009, 2010 tests -- he passed them. If there's a document, share it," Luskin said Thursday. "If he doped over 14-, 16-year period, tell us when he doped and with whom. How do you reconcile that with never failing a test?"

 

[Boeing]

if you're watching Tour de Suisse right now - pretty strange Levi withdrew his name from Olympic consideration...

wow interesting point.

 

[thehog]

Has this been posted yet? Response of LA’s attorney Luskin to the charges:

http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2012/0614/armstrongbockIIltrfinal.pdf

I can't copy and paste from this document. It's summarized here:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...strong-lawyers-want-evidence-names-usada-case

The letter is dreadfully written.

My theory is they'll attempt to discredit USADA to the point they of the hearing. Then withdrawal claiming its s sham and Armstrong won't receive a fair hearing.

I'm assuming USADA will release full details of the evidence once the hearing is complete?

 

[mastersracer]

The letter is dreadfully written.

My theory is they'll attempt to discredit USADA to the point they of the hearing. Then withdrawal claiming its s sham and Armstrong won't receive a fair hearing.

I'm assuming USADA will release full details of the evidence once the hearing is complete?

they'll release a judgment but not full details. Landis requested that his hearing be public, which is the only reason the testimony was disclosed publicly.

 

[Polish]

You guys are hilarious with the Ferrari routine. It never gets old. Alpe that picture is so funny. Have no idea who it is - but it is funny.

Of course Lance has always been up front about Ferrari. Since before Greg was disappointed waawaa up to the present. Old news. Up front. Lance was upfront before SCA. Discussed during SCA. "Paid Ferrari sure". Discussed plenty of times since.

But it is still funny harhar.

And of course as we have discussed many times - not against the law for Lance to pay Ferrari. Lance has been open about payments to Ferrari for a long long time. Ferrari has to properly show it as taxable income, sure, but Lance does not give the good doctor advice on Italian tax law I bet.

Anyway, carry on with the hilarity please. Truly amusing.

 

[mastersracer]

You guys are hilarious with the Ferrari routine. It never gets old. Alpe that picture is so funny. Have no idea who it is - but it is funny.

Of course Lance has always been up front about Ferrari. Since before Greg was disappointed waawaa up to the present. Old news. Up front. Lance was upfront before SCA. Discussed during SCA. "Paid Ferrari sure". Discussed plenty of times since.

But it is still funny harhar.

And of course as we have discussed many times - not against the law for Lance to pay Ferrari. Lance has been open about payments to Ferrari for a long long time. Ferrari has to properly show it as taxable income, sure, but Lance does not give the good doctor advice on Italian tax law I bet.

Anyway, carry on with the hilarity please. Truly amusing.

Where is a single disclosure from Armstrong that he was working with Ferrari past 2004? Why did they go to such lengths to conceal their relationship if it was fully disclosed?

 

[Kennf1]

they'll release a judgment but not full details. Landis requested that his hearing be public, which is the only reason the testimony was disclosed publicly.

Having watched the Landis arbitration, you know Armstrong won't make the mistake of demanding a public hearing. They will be attacking the whole procedural apparatus, rather than refute the testimony/evidence directly. This dovetails into his previous statements about "not fighting it anymore." Add the phrases "mockery," "Kangaroo court," and "due process" to the talking points.

The average fan will continue to confuse the USADA process with criminal procedure, and these points will resonate.

 

[Polish]

Where is a single disclosure from Armstrong that he was working with Ferrari past 2004? Why did they go to such lengths to conceal their relationship if it was fully disclosed?

Are you trying to be funny too?
I think you would be better off using a petrol or monica punchline.
Or maybe a silly picture lol. Love those.

 

[Ferminal]

Interesting that the $465k payment evidence was found after the FDA criminal investigation closed. No one should assume the criminal investigation might not reopen as new evidence comes to light.

I think it was found last year. There was a big story out of Italy about many riders having funds caught up in Switzerland/Italy in dealings with Ferrari. These seem like the exact details coming out now.

 

[Master50]

Commenting from the headlines is a little premature too. The last lines in the post on cycling news says LA paid a company alleged to belong to Ferrari. The connection needs more proof to be considered as evidence. As for paying Ferrari there is a ruling that considers this a violation as Anyone found to be working with Ferrari is violating a prohibition Whether this ban took effect after 2006 or before I do not recall.

 

[mastersracer]

Are you trying to be funny too?
I think you would be better off using a petrol or monica punchline.
Or maybe a silly picture lol. Love those.

yes, they were just friends after 2004. The illegal cash transfers wasn't money laundering, just presents and gifts. What an innocent scene of Vino, Menchov, and Armstrong hanging out in a mobile lab over the holidays, just kicking back and relaxing. Ferrari is such a fun guy that his friends gave him $30M Euros for the pleasure of his company, or his son, or a conversation on a prepaid cell phone. The only joke is that you'd think someone is stupid enough to believe you...

 

[Jack Ruby]

Took me a while to get my account, the test question to join the forum was something like "Did Lance Armstrong win the Tour or France?"

Good point Polish. Lance was really upfront about his relationship with Ferarri.
Read pages 39 and 43 from the deposition.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony


Some gems there:

"Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say that of those advisors that Doctor Ferrari was the most significant one to you?

A. I don't -- I don't think -- I don't think that would be fair to say.

Q. Okay. Can you give me one who you felt -- an advisor who you felt was more significant to your training --

A. Well, it just depends. I mean, you could say somebody -- the -- you know, the people at the wind tunnel who design the position and the equipment in and around the time trials, they're the most important in terms of true cost and true savings."

 

[hfer07]

"Apparently, everybody in that sport was cheating. I mean everybody was cheating. So do I hold it against him? No. Do I think he did it? Yeah, I think he did do it."

&#8220]But do I think he cheated? Yes, I think he cheated. I think the same thing about Roger Clemens, and I like Roger Clemens. … First of all, every cyclist the last 10 to 15 years has gotten busted, every single person on his team has gotten busted. The chances of him being the only clean guy, I think, is a little unrealistic[/B].”

 

[Benotti69]

I think when Charles Barkeley calls you a doper the average Joe American is gonna say ok yep now that i think about it it doesn't add up.

Be interesting to see a graph of donations to liestrong over the next 12months as this drips into the news.

Will they have to get an intern CEO soon? Hard times ahead.

 

[Polish]

Took me a while to get my account, the test question to join the forum was something like "Did Lance Armstrong win the Tour or France?"

Good point Polish. Lance was really upfront about his relationship with Ferarri.
Read pages 39 and 43 from the deposition.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony


Some gems there:

"Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say that of those advisors that Doctor Ferrari was the most significant one to you?

A. I don't -- I don't think -- I don't think that would be fair to say.

Q. Okay. Can you give me one who you felt -- an advisor who you felt was more significant to your training --

A. Well, it just depends. I mean, you could say somebody -- the -- you know, the people at the wind tunnel who design the position and the equipment in and around the time trials, they're the most important in terms of true cost and true savings."

That test question WAS hard I suppose. Trick question?
Maybe it was aimed at weeding out deluuuusional posters?

Look Jack, Lance had MANY arrows in his Quiver of Awesomeness.
Truly unfair to point to any one arrow as "most significant".
Lance is many many things - but he is not deluuusional or unfair.

 

[Ferminal]

Took me a while to get my account, the test question to join the forum was something like "Did Lance Armstrong win the Tour or France?"

Good point Polish. Lance was really upfront about his relationship with Ferarri.
Read pages 39 and 43 from the deposition.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31833754/Lance-Armstrong-Testimony


Some gems there:

"Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say that of those advisors that Doctor Ferrari was the most significant one to you?

A. I don't -- I don't think -- I don't think that would be fair to say.

Q. Okay. Can you give me one who you felt -- an advisor who you felt was more significant to your training --

A. Well, it just depends. I mean, you could say somebody -- the -- you know, the people at the wind tunnel who design the position and the equipment in and around the time trials, they're the most important in terms of true cost and true savings."

I guess they bagged seven figures then?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Tbh I don't understand why you're on it. I'd like to know why and on what basis DW made that list.

Check your PM. If there's a question, just PM me.

 

[Kennf1]

Commenting from the headlines is a little premature too. The last lines in the post on cycling news says LA paid a company alleged to belong to Ferrari. The connection needs more proof to be considered as evidence. As for paying Ferrari there is a ruling that considers this a violation as Anyone found to be working with Ferrari is violating a prohibition Whether this ban took effect after 2006 or before I do not recall.

Ban was effective in 2002.

 

[Kennf1]

Fabiani in 2011:

Armstrong lawyer Mark Fabiani said earlier this month that Armstrong "has not had a professional relationship with Dr. Ferrari since 2004, but he remains friends with the doctor's family and sees them every once in a while. Lance last saw Dr. Ferrari about a year ago."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...armstrong-michele-ferrari-investigation_N.htm

Friendship is indeed pricey.

 

[thehog]

Who's this Luskin character?

I've not heard from him before... where's Fabani and the other lawyers like Daly?

Luskin appears cheap. Doesn't have enough firepower....

Has this been posted yet? Response of LA’s attorney Luskin to the charges:

http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2012/0614/armstrongbockIIltrfinal.pdf

I can't copy and paste from this document.

Main points:

1) Luskin claims he had been willing to meet with USADA to discuss the scope of the investigation
2) Notes that usually the process begins with a positive test, and the athlete has all the relevant facts for that. Whereas here, they are not allowed to know anything about the identity of the witnesses and the specific charges.
3) The charge of suspicious blood parameters requires laboratory documentation which should have been sent to them
4) Hellebuyck is not a valid precedent, in particular, Hellebuyck admitted he doped prior to the end of the SOL.

Also briefly summarized here:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...strong-lawyers-want-evidence-names-usada-case

 

[DirtyWorks]

Has this been posted yet? Response of LA’s attorney Luskin to the charges:

2) Notes that usually the process begins with a positive test, and the athlete has all the relevant facts for that. Whereas here, they are not allowed to know anything about the identity of the witnesses and the specific charges.

In reverse order:
Specific charges? I thought the letter was pretty clear.
Not allowed to know anything about the identities? So they can intimidate them.
There are OTHER rules to violate besides returning a positive.

But, this IS lawyers we're talking about... Sadly, I don't think Carmichael will get caught up in it. Too far back.