USADA - Armstrong

[Race Radio]

Deflection tactic?

So firstly, you dont think there's something wrong with being charged for something 12 or 13 years AFTER the offence?

13 years? Math is not your strength is it?

collected blood samples from Armstrong in 2009 and 2010 that were “fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.”

& secondly, there was obviously someone on the inside in USADA who helped with the initial cover ups of Lances "so called" positive EPO test in the first place... hows that going to make them look?

They're throwing mud in their own faces if he does in fact get found guilty!

Which tests are you referring to? 1999? 2001? USADA had no oversight over cycling until August 2004, how could they cover up those positives?

The UCI did have oversight and the next few months should further expose their coverups.

 

[cleanmarine]

“The Devil himself, which is the author of confusion and lies.”
Robert Burton

 

[Microchip]

Oh, I forgot one of the best things still to come

The story of how Wonderboy came to "Own" Hein Verdruggen. It's a good one, and it did not start in 2001

The anticipation is going to wear me down!

 

[WindLessBreeze]

Doctor, Doctor, Mister MD!

Was Dr. Ferrari, Dr. Fuentes, or Dr. Whatever....Licensed to practice medicine at the time? Yes, they were........Is the public, laymen at best, suppose to forgo the advised of licensed professionals when in fact, the States' which are suppose to grant their work permits and look after the Public Health issues don't think there's anything wrong with the way they practice their chores?..........C'mom folks.......It's a vendetta against the Heroes who placed cycling amongst the top sports revenue'wise, market'wise, and public'wise......

 

[arthurvandelay]

Al Capone

(in reply to cleanmarine, post#1430)
I do believe that this is what finally landed Al Capone and many other mobsters subsequent to him in the slammer. Lance has certainly shown he is not shy about sucking up vast sums of money, some of which may have been obtained under less than honorable means. (See; Livestrong, SCA productions).

I have no doubt that the IRS is watching all of this unfold very carefully.

 

[Race Radio]

We should also have a rule that dopers and drug trafficers should be banned for life from the clinic.

Just a thought.

Hey look, Goober is back!

What's up with the leaks Goober? What ever happen to the big conspiracy you talked about?

Is it still "Over" or is this USADA case all part of Lance's big plan to catch the real dopers

It's over and USADA is over as it relates to Lance and doping. Time for everyone to move on...

 

[cleanmarine]

I do believe that this is what finally landed Al Capone and many other mobsters subsequent to him in the slammer. Lance has certainly shown he is not shy about sucking up vast sums of money, some of which may have been obtained under less than honorable means. (See; Livestrong, SCA productions).

I have no doubt that the IRS is watching all of this unfold very carefully.

Bingo. The IRS. They never lose. You can not buy off the IRS. It is black and white. Either cheated on taxes or didn't

 

[thehog]

Strange that usada can go along for years and come up with nothing. Then years later ….Bamm they got the good’s?
Who pays the bills for usada? It is time to cut the funding to an apparent waste of time and money.

I think that would be an excellent idea. Cut all of their grants (not funding) so they can’t do their job. Brilliant. If USADA were so bad where was the choruses of disapproval before this Armstrong was under investigation? Why only now are they a problem? The “anti-doping” part in USADA might give you a hint at their remit. Armstrong himself said he looked forward to being vindicated in January last year if USADA investigated him. What’s change now? If indeed innocent then he’d have no problems in being proved innocent.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Was Dr. Ferrari, Dr. Fuentes, or Dr. Whatever....Licensed to practice medicine at the time? Yes, they were........Is the public, laymen at best, suppose to forgo the advised of licensed professionals when in fact, the States' which are suppose to grant their work permits and look after the Public Health issues don't think there's anything wrong with the way they practice their chores?..........C'mom folks.......It's a vendetta against the Heroes who placed cycling amongst the top sports revenue'wise, market'wise, and public'wise......

A vendetta? You are correct, this is about the people who created an enormous amount of attention for a sport that was off the radar in the strongest economy on the planet in terms of buying power. The companies that found fortune (Trek, Oakley, Nike, etc, etc, etc), and the revenue for European companies and cycling itself increased massively because of Mr. Armstrong. That was his real leverage point with the UCI and to a lesser extent ASO. He was able to bring money to the table at a level never before seen. The problem is that it was all perpetrated on a lie. It was all perpetrated on a systematic doping program instituted by medical staff. This isn't about a vendetta, this is about the fact that several people who were in on the fraud decided to let the cat out of the bag. I thank Mr. Landis for that most of all. He tore the bandage off the festering, puss filled wound of systematic doping, and some people with ethics started to listen to what he said (instead of branding him just some angry doper who was in it for a book deal) and look to see if there was something to what he said. Once that happened, they found out that there were others willing to tell honestly what they witnessed and did themselves. You can't put a cat like that back in a bag no matter how hard you try.

The problem with people like you is that you think the money justifies lying and bullying and the institution of systematic doping to make it happen. "Lets just leave the whole thing alone" you say. "People will always dope (cheat)" you say. "Everyone else was doing it" you say. The excuses for dishonesty and fraud are not new. They have been around since the dawn of spoken language. Fortunately, throughout our history, there have been people who knew that you have to address the lies. People who know that, against all popular opinion, they must do the right thing and address and expose the deceit and fraud regardless of the reality that people will always cheat. They expose the truth regardless of the fact that others were doing the same thing. People like you make things like the fraud perpetrated by those men possible. People like you make that fraud massively profitable. People like you are the enemy of honesty and ethics. You have been around since the dawn of man, so I won't get too worked up about your protestations any longer. People like you just aren't worth it.

 

[aphronesis]

It is very tough to watch some make such accusations against Lance. Also this is all alleged since in the end Lance never gets his time before a jury of his peers. All that will happen is usada will pick someone, Lance will pick someone and those two “someone’s” will pick the third. In the end it is not a very good system but is what it is.
Now I am so happy that all the good people on this forum does not resort to calling people troll’s or nothing like that.

Well college, (and this refers back to your previous post), you might note that it was not politically desirable to chase LA back when-and even still at the fed criminal level, but now is the opportune time--esp with any case slated for November

 

[WindLessBreeze]

I did not say what you say I did

A vendetta? You are correct, this is about the people who created an enormous amount of attention for a sport that was off the radar in the strongest economy on the planet in terms of buying power. The companies that found fortune (Trek, Oakley, Nike, etc, etc, etc), and the revenue for European companies and cycling itself increased massively because of Mr. Armstrong. That was his real leverage point with the UCI and to a lesser extent ASO. He was able to bring money to the table at a level never before seen. The problem is that it was all perpetrated on a lie. It was all perpetrated on a systematic doping program instituted by medical staff. This isn't about a vendetta, this is about the fact that several people who were in on the fraud decided to let the cat out of the bag. I thank Mr. Landis for that most of all. He tore the bandage off the festering, puss filled wound of systematic doping, and some people with ethics started to listen to what he said (instead of branding him just some angry doper who was in it for a book deal) and look to see if there was something to what he said. Once that happened, they found out that there were others willing to tell honestly what they witnessed and did themselves. You can't put a cat like that back in a bag no matter how hard you try.

The problem with people like you is that you think the money justifies lying and bullying and the institution of systematic doping to make it happen. "Lets just leave the whole thing alone" you say. "People will always dope (cheat)" you say. "Everyone else was doing it" you say. The excuses for dishonesty and fraud are not new. They have been around since the dawn of spoken language. Fortunately, throughout our history, there have been people who knew that you have to address the lies. People who know that, against all popular opinion, they must do the right thing and address and expose the deceit and fraud regardless of the reality that people will always cheat. They expose the truth regardless of the fact that others were doing the same thing. People like you make things like the fraud perpetrated by those men possible. People like you make that fraud massively profitable. People like you are the enemy of honesty and ethics. You have been around since the dawn of man, so I won't get too worked up about your protestations any longer. People like you just aren't worth it.

I'm against doping. Look at my thread " Doping in the Lower Ranks".........But I'm also against self awarded the title of Self-Righteous Monsignors....LOL

 

[cleanmarine]

Most of the reaction from the pro-Lance crowd is currently derived from a growing sense of personal ignorance/stupidity. The 'Wow I really was fooled by Lance all these years, I feel really stupid' So they must continue to defend the fraud. Because if they face the music it is all too clear.

If it seems too good to be true it usually is. Best lesson my parents taught me.

If one removes the emotion from the equation the Lance ruse is almost comical. He almost got away with it by hiding in plain sight. That smirk. Only Mona Lisa does it better.

 

[zigmeister]

I think this sums up 99.999999999% of the public's opinion about this matter.


"Don't care."


But all of the people posting on the forum with their moral high ground and perfect lives they live will continue on, wishing they were something they weren't.

Carry on Joe Papp and the likes.

 

[Anonymous]

Most of the reaction from the pro-Lance crowd is currently derived from a growing sense of personal ignorance/stupidity. The 'Wow I really was fooled by Lance all these years, I feel really stupid' So they must continue to defend the fraud. Because if they face the music it is all too clear.

If it seems too good to be true it usually is. Best lesson my parents taught me.

If one removes the emotion from the equation the Lance ruse is almost comical. He almost got away with it by hiding in plain sight. That smirk. Only Mona Lisa does it better.

'Wow I really was fooled by Lance all these years, I feel really stupid'

That was me.

Difference being the gravity of what he was/is doing is so great... It took me a little while to understand... but I can't think of a criminal enterprise in sports that's bigger with the possible exception of fight fixing in pro boxing.

One can not point to Lance and say everything he's ever done is bad. But the size and scope of his fraud is mind blowing.

There can't be much of a soul there. I honestly don't know how the guy can look himself in the mirror.

 

[Anonymous]

I think this sums up 99.999999999% of the public's opinion about this matter.


"Don't care."


But all of the people posting on the forum with their moral high ground and perfect lives they live will continue on, wishing they were something they weren't.

Carry on Joe Papp and the likes.

Like Lance?

No thanks.

And you are way off on your percentages.

 

[cleanmarine]

That was me.

Difference being the gravity of what he was/is doing is so great... It took me a little while to understand... but I can't think of a criminal enterprise in sports that's bigger with the possible exception of fight fixing in pro boxing.

One can not point to Lance and say everything he's ever done is bad. But the size and scope of his fraud is mind blowing.

There can't be much of a soul there. I honestly don't know how the guy can look himself in the mirror.

It was me as well that bought off on the act. Until one day I literally woke up with the crystal clear thought of 'how can this be'. So I dove into the numbers. I dove into the times. I approached it from science. Took the emotion out. Like a computer. Wow it is so appauling.

 

[MarkvW]

I know it's hard.

Floyd is to be given a lot of credit here. Blew a hole in the omerta big enough to expose Fraud Armstrong.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

 

[cleanmarine]

I think this sums up 99.999999999% of the public's opinion about this matter.


"Don't care."


But all of the people posting on the forum with their moral high ground and perfect lives they live will continue on, wishing they were something they weren't.

Carry on Joe Papp and the likes.

So you are saying 99.999999999% of humans do not care about honesty and integrity?

You have a very sad view on humanity. I feel very sorry for you.

Why don't you place your energy admiring the good and just people of this world.

Charlatans do not go down in history very well.

You want to be associated with one of the biggest in the history of sport?

 

[Race Radio]

I think this sums up 99.999999999% of the public's opinion about this matter.


"Don't care."


But all of the people posting on the forum with their moral high ground and perfect lives they live will continue on, wishing they were something they weren't.

Carry on Joe Papp and the likes.

Why would it be the lead story on all major news outlets if nobody cared?

 

[aphronesis]

So you are saying 99.999999999% of humans do not care about honesty and integrity?

You have a very sad view on humanity. I feel very sorry for you.

Why don't you place your energy admiring the good and just people of this world.

Charlatans do not go down in history very well.

You want to be associated with one of the biggest in the history of sport?

Pious zealots don't go down much better in history. It seems clear that there's an argument to made here for an aggressive transformation of cycling that took place during the past decade. One part of this is due to the impartial violence of capitalization, but another due the subjective manipulation of that process. It might help if all the respondents got clear on their stakes in those particular incidences. Otherwise you might as well be weathervanes.

@scott how 'bout big govt. telling people how to live?

 

[mewmewmew13]

So what is next?

Last weeks events were no surprise to those who read The Clinic....but what is next?

you will hear the phrase "take the shot or you do not start"
We will find out about an American rider who got his EPO confiscated by customs
Tyler was not the only guy who doped at the 2004 Olympics
Followed, hacked, and harassed. Yup. Lots of that.
Pictures
Tapes
Tenerife
and more good news coming from across the pond

Stay tuned kids. Last week was just the half time show. This quarter going to be fun!

Better than a Bollywood movie.

..and yes, many of us were expecting the pictures and tapes to come out eventually

 

[Anonymous]

@scott how 'bout big govt. telling people how to live?

Beyond rules of law and societal framework? I would be largely against it.

 

[andy1234]

That was me.

Difference being the gravity of what he was/is doing is so great... It took me a little while to understand... but I can't think of a criminal enterprise in sports that's bigger with the possible exception of fight fixing in pro boxing.

One can not point to Lance and say everything he's ever done is bad. But the size and scope of his fraud is mind blowing.

There can't be much of a soul there. I honestly don't know how the guy can look himself in the mirror.

I guess that's why I don't feel as strongly, as many, about Armstrong, I was convinced he was doping from July 3rd 1999, so I never felt let down by him.

I went through a stage of hating to watch him beat the likes of Ullrich etc, then moved on to a grudging admiration of his sheer dominance in the face of a similarly doped peloton.

His actions off the bike are clearly f**ked up, but the intererst I have in him doesn't last any further than the finishing line.

 

[cleanmarine]

Only guilty men act as such as he is. Come on big tough Texan. If you have nothing to hide come and get it.

The cool coniving ability to go on TV to lie
, the ability to print the lie
, the ability to his cancer victims to lie
, to his mom to lie, to his children to lie
, to lie in such a straight face in which even the best human behavior specialists were fooled.

When will the general poplulation begin to look at him as a historic level con artist?

 

[cleanmarine]

Pious zealots don't go down much better in history. It seems clear that there's an argument to made here for an aggressive transformation of cycling that took place during the past decade. One part of this is due to the impartial violence of capitalization, but another due the subjective manipulation of that process. It might help if all the respondents got clear on their stakes in those particular incidences. Otherwise you might as well be weathervanes.

@scott how 'bout big govt. telling people how to live?

Pious zealots do go down in history well. They are called heros.