USADA - Armstrong

[aphronesis]

Beyond rules of law and societal framework? I would be largely against it.

Much like finance of the last decade, it remains to be seen that either of those strictures can be seen to have been transgessed--proven that is. On topic: as with broader, more manifold and devastating violations of some social contract, it may be that the onus is on people to be inquiet sooner.

If they can truthfully claim that they have issue.

@merckx, separate thread: no chance of usada sticking uci for conspiracy

 

[Race Radio]

Lance just posted this link on twitter. He thinks it exonerates his wacky blood values. a few options

#1 He is an idiot
#2 He thinks his fans are idiots and will not read it, just assume it exonerates him
#3 His Twitter account was hacked

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated

"What we know from our research is that during periods of hard activity, like in the Tour de France, we normally see a drop in these blood values. We don't see this with Armstrong,"

“His blood profile contradicts what we see and what we know from international studies during the last few decades,” he said in a phone interview. “His blood values are not acting as we would expect, so that is highly unusual.”

there is no significant difference between those two blood markers at the start and end of the race, and secondly, the values rise on two occasions during the event, around the time of the two rest days. In addition to that, they say that his reticulocyte (new red blood cell) levels are below expected levels, something which Mørkeberg and Belhage state can also be an indication of blood doping.

"It could be that he received some blood transfusions,”

the picture is inconsistent with what we normally see. Armstrong's levels are unchanged from the first to the last test, and normally we expect a decrease. We saw this fall in his levels during the Giro d'Italia a couple of months earlier, but not during the Tour."

“I am completely in agreement with Jakob about his interpretation of the results,” he told Cyclingnews. “They are not normal, not dropping when you should expect them to drop. And on the other hand, the reticulocytes are dropping when they shouldn’t

“What we can say is that there are some similarities to our test subjects in the laboratory when we had given them external blood.”

 

[rhubroma]

Pious zealots don't go down much better in history. It seems clear that there's an argument to made here for an aggressive transformation of cycling that took place during the past decade. One part of this is due to the impartial violence of capitalization, but another due the subjective manipulation of that process. It might help if all the respondents got clear on their stakes in those particular incidences. Otherwise you might as well be weather vanes.

@scott how 'bout big govt. telling people how to live?

I think though, aphronesis, there is a margin of maneuverability between being a "pious zealot" and the "anti-Christ," something like the space between Venus and Mars.

It would be interesting I think to many here, myself included, for you to indulge in explaining to us the relationship you have identified between the "impartial violence of capitalization" and the "subjective manipulation of that process."

My interpretation will undoubtedly be too elementary: something like the more big money gets poured into competition, there will always be some King Midas to provide for the industry's insatiable appetite for gold. Hence transforming all the corrupted base metals into something pure they are not.

PS: I don't believe the messages of either.

 

[thehog]

Lance just posted this link on twitter. He thinks it exonerates his wacky blood values. a few options

#1 He is an idiot
#2 He thinks his fans are idiots and will not read it, just assume it exonerates him
#3 His Twitter account was hacked

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated

The funny part is he has been kicking the crap out of VeloNews and CyclingNews an now he is quoting them?

C

 

[cleanmarine]

Playing it out in public.
Trying to rally the sheep.
Incite the masses.
Step in the ring Lance.

Does anyone with a half a brain and a dash of common sense believe this garbage from his PR stormtroopers?

Come on Lance. Show them what you got on June 22nd. Explain it all away for us. Make the dream real.

 

[Kennf1]

Lance just posted this link on twitter. He thinks it exonerates his wacky blood values. a few options

#1 He is an idiot
#2 He thinks his fans are idiots and will not read it, just assume it exonerates him
#3 His Twitter account was hacked

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated

What's also funny is he's linking to quotes from Damsgaard, who said at the time (September 2009) "There is currently no scientifically accepted method accepting that such fluctuations in a blood profile can be attributed to blood transfusions."

Two years later, Pellizotti and Caucchioli were banned for fluctuations in blood profiles.

 

[function]

Lance just posted this link on twitter. He thinks it exonerates his wacky blood values. a few options

#1 He is an idiot
#2 He thinks his fans are idiots and will not read it, just assume it exonerates him
#3 His Twitter account was hacked

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/analysis-armstrongs-tour-blood-levels-debated

It seems his thinking is that the below quote "proves" that it's all speculation and uses ashendons seat on the panel as further proof.

Personally, I am very much in line with other experts that in the recent days (have) declared that circumstantial evidence constitute a real threat to the individual athletes “rule of law,” since athletes have no real option to disprove such accusations.”

 

[thehog]

The funny part is he has been kicking the crap out of VeloNews and CyclingNews an now he is quoting them?

I would add its actually very sad to watch. I don’t think he’s behaving normally. It’s sad because even now he’s still preying on the emotions of his supporters. He would probably be better off not saying anything. By continuing to push the lie will just make him look more and more ridiculous. I’m not sure what he hopes to achieve by this?

 

[131313]

Lance just posted this link on twitter. He thinks it exonerates his wacky blood values. a few options

#1 He is an idiot
#2 He thinks his fans are idiots and will not read it, just assume it exonerates him
#3 His Twitter account was hacked

#4 The 6th grader who put together his "facts4lance" website is now in charge of his twitter account.

There really isn't much to say except "wow".

 

[college]

Some are following him on twitter? If you do not like him why would you follow his twitter account?

 

[MD FACG FACP]

As current as my last physical on a case thats 13 years old? how exactly?

& as for "self-acutalization you perform while looking at Lance's cover shot on Outdoor magazine"... come now dude; i voice my opinion about something & you come back at me with that? lol!

I wont lose sleep if he does get proven guilty & has TDF medals stripped... i just dont think this whole case is necessary, thats all.

Lance is the biggest cheater in the history of organized sports. I could careless if it goes back 13 years, good I'm glad he got to enjoy it for a while I'm sure it will suck more to have it all ripped away. And it shows that you ARE NOT to big to fail. If there is any evidence of doping I don't care bring it forward take away results I don't care who or when.

 

[Microchip]

Interesting article by Juliet Macur.

 

[mastersracer]

Armstrong's latest tweet: "And yes, Michael Ashendon was on the UCI's Biological Passport "expert" panel in 2009."


Ashendon interviewed in velonation about 99 Tour samples:

"There is no doubt in my mind these samples contain synthetic EPO, they belong to Lance Armstrong, and there's no conceivable way that I can see that a lab could've spiked them in a way that the data has presented itself. So there is no doubt in my mind he took EPO during the '99 Tour."

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Some are following him on twitter? If you do not like him why would you follow his twitter account?

Some people read a biography of Charles Manson what's your point?

 

[cleanmarine]

Quote:
Originally Posted by damsgaard
Personally, I am very much in line with other experts that in the recent days (have) declared that circumstantial evidence constitute a real threat to the individual athletes “rule of law,” since athletes have no real option to disprove such accusations.”


Don't let all the prisoners in jail hear this. They might get mad if they find out circumstantial evidence is a "threat"

Someone said this before but that is a gem.

Come on Lance is that the best you have?

 

[aphronesis]

Pious zealots do go down in history well. They are called heros.

martyrs often. as has been said, be careful what you wish for. the pastoral regime is not all it's claimed to be.

 

[Microchip]

... And it shows that you ARE NOT to big to fail. ...

True. Maybe his quest for bigness wouldn't stop and that's what brought the downfall.

I reckon that the reason for Comeback 2.0 was due to Contador. Contador had 3 TDFs and other GTs under his belt. Under Bruyneel's guidance, Alberto was a runaway train on its way to erasing Armstrong's record. He could not handle that, so he had to comeback.

 

[hfer07]

a comment about the local talk show on LA's current situation:

"Lance Armstrong is Irrelevant-he hasn't been on the news in years-Nobody cares about cycling-& with all the scandals in that sport-We should assume they all dope-everybody in sports dope -so I don't care about those doping allegations at all - I don't even care if the Red sox players are doping- I don't care if the Pats are doping at all- I'm bothered by all the money spent on those stupid investigations... I would let them all dope-as long as they play well!!!"

THAT'S WICKED !!

 

[cleanmarine]

martyrs often. as has been said, be careful what you wish for. the pastoral regime is not all it's claimed to be.

So anyone looking for truth is a martyr? Sweet Mary and Joeseph what has happened to humanity?

 

[college]

Some people read a biography of Charles Manson what's your point?

Do not try to bait me. I can see what you were trying to do.
I don’t understand why if someone does not like Lance they would still follow his twitter account.
I would never go out and buy a book on Charles Manson but like you said some people do.
Does usada have a twitter account? If so then I would not follow it.

 

[college]

a comment about the local talk show on LA's current situation:




THAT'S WICKED !!

That is funny.

It sums up what everyone besides this clinic forum thinks with respect to usada and the witch hunt.

 

[Caruut]

Do not try to bait me. I can see what you were trying to do.
I don’t understand why if someone does not like Lance they would still follow his twitter account.
I would never go out and buy a book on Charles Manson but like you said some people do.
Does usada have a twitter account? If so then I would not follow it.

"What he was trying to do". A bit rich from a troll such as yourself. Obviously you can still think that what someone has to say is going to be interesting even if you don't like it. I'm not personally very keen on the present government of my country, but I'm not going to ignore everything they say just because of this. Now, back to your cave.

 

[Caruut]

That is funny.

It sums up what everyone besides this clinic forum thinks with respect to usada and the witch hunt.

Ahhh, "Everyone". Was there a survey that I missed?

 

[cleanmarine]

That is funny.

It sums up what everyone besides this clinic forum thinks with respect to usada and the witch hunt.

So you admit he was a doper and a cheat. You bought right into that one. Do you read the statement? The shift is from never doped to never tested positive to everyone did it.

 

[badboygolf16v]

Do not try to bait me. I can see what you were trying to do.

Argue in a reasoned and logical manner?

I don’t understand why if someone does not like Lance they would still follow his twitter account.

I'm sure there's lots of things you don't understand. Wilfully or otherwise.