USADA - Armstrong

[spetsa]

Some are following him on twitter? If you do not like him why would you follow his twitter account?

So I can regulary be amazed at the volume of utter BS and nonsense can be spewed in only 150 characters

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No thank you.

I am going to leave this thread alone as it appears that I am only being baited and flamed by people who have their minds made up.

I didn't bait you - you made a comment that USADA are corrupt, I merely asked you to articulate your opinion - hardly the question of someone who has their minds made up.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion - but I would be interested to know how you came to it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You mean you're.

At any rate people without any sense of irony, or the paradoxical, let alone sarcasm, satire and hyperbole usually respond as you have done here. However one wishes to paint the picture.

Cheers

Slow today? Didn't get the joke on the "your"? The bold was a clue

In the future how about more fact checking and less drama queen !! Lmao

 

[Polish]

This USADA smearjob/witchunt/selfpromo is such a joke. Why won't they hand over the blood values obtained from the UCI that are consistent with doping huh?

Do they even exist?

Or worse yet - are these the blood values the were dicussed in blogs and forums and media smearjob articles? SmearJob Blood Values, not offical chain of custody protected blood values?

What is going on here?
(That is a rhetorical question lol. We all know what is going on.)

 

[andy1234]

Cheating corruption and lies is not legislated. It is a contract of humanity which binds us together. It is called morals. Innate god given morals.

I wondered how long it would take for God to come into this.
If God does "give" us morals, I'm not sure how impressed he (or she) would be with the retribution being demanded by some.

 

[cleanmarine]

This USADA smearjob/witchunt/selfpromo is such a joke. Why won't they hand over the blood values obtained from the UCI that are consistent with doping huh?

Do they even exist?

Or worse yet - are these the blood values the were dicussed in blogs and forums and media smearjob articles? SmearJob Blood Values, not offical chain of custody protected blood values?

What is going on here?
(That is a rhetorical question lol. We all know what is going on.)

Polish I believe you are a court jester. Solely here to produce debate. You do a great job. For every post you make there are multiple return hits. Some on which is new story line. Keep up the good work!

 

[cleanmarine]

I wondered how long it would take for God to come into this.
If God does "give" us morals, I'm not sure how impressed he (or she) would be with the retribution being demanded by some.

God came into from Lance when he professed his athiest views. Return serve

 

[WinterRider]

Man. Go away for awhile and look what happens.

I haven't read the entire thread yet (stopped at page 20, out of 118), so someone else may have pointed this out:

It was a tall, somewhat troublesome, expensive order, even for the U.S. Justice Department, to prosecute a case against the handsome 7-time Tour winner and full time cancer fighter. He had success written all over him, with a charity that drummed up millions of dollars a year to "defeat this terrible disease, and ease the suffering of so many." He had large corporations behind him, and politicians in his pocket - not to mention the UCI, past and present. He was extremely well funded and loved by a very large number of people the world over.

So why take all that on? If you don't have to, I mean.

Why not hand off the evidence gathered to USADA and others, where the bar of proof is lower, if only slightly, and the stakes not quite so high, seemingly. Let them do their thing, resulting in a thoroughly discredited athlete who has been stripped of all racing titles from 1998 onwards; an athlete who has consequently been chewed up in the press and whose charitable organization has long since jettisoned his name or else itself been held up to unfavorable scrutiny; an athlete, moreover, whose support has dwindled to little or nothing and whose coffers have been all but dried up by the effort to fight and survive.

Result? A soft(er) target.

The Justice Department has already done most of the heavy lifting with its investigation. Now it hands the evidence off to USADA, which handles matters from a sporting end and chops our hero down to size. When in the process certain matters of a criminal nature are brought to light, the Justice Depart is justified and indeed obligated to start a new investigation (or, if you prefer, to restart this one). When they do, it will be against a broke, discouraged, discredited person who is proven to be a liar and conspirator, one who, moreover, has few if any genuine athletic accomplishments to his name, no charity to call his own, no corporation or politician willing to go to bat for him, and far fewer fans than before.

In an interview around the time of the Men's Journal article, Armstrong said he wasn't going to contest anything anymore; and if that meant giving up a Tour title or two, that was an outcome he'd be happy with. With this, he was signaling USADA that he'd make a deal, thereby saving them the expense and trouble of a full-court press. Their response is seen in this letter: we don't want a Tour title or two in exchange for going away. We want it all. The figure standing in shadows around the corner is none other than Jeff Novitsky and the U.S. Justice Department. At least, that's how I think it will play out.

The theory has appeared in the thread, but not so clearly written. I like this take on the legal case, and I hope that you are correct. I would really like to see all the evidence they compiled come out in open court, so that we can finally see all the cards on the table.

I don't think we'll get that from the USADA proceedings, as apparently their hearings are closed to the public.

 

[Anonymous]

No thank you.

I am going to leave this thread alone as it appears that I am only being baited and flamed by people who have their minds made up.

When you make accusations (on multiple occasions) regarding corruption at USADA (without one scintilla of evidence to back up your claim/opinion) you are inviting being questioned.

Its not baiting to ask you to put up or shut up.

 

[andy1234]

God came into from Lance when he professed his athiest views. Return serve

I have no idea what you mean.

 

[cleanmarine]

To rephrase- Lance is a proud atheist. He sparked religious debate. Surely you know his views?

 

[MarkvW]

Pr management?

Armstrong has retained expensive PR people and he knew that there was a strong possibility that USADA would be coming after him. He even talked about that in the recent article.

My assumption is that Armstrong had a PR contingency plan for when the USADA charges were brought. The PR people always preach advance planning and 'staying ahead of the curve.'

If the contingency plan was nonparticipation in the USADA proceedings, then why didn't Lance make the big 'I'm outta here' statement earlier? If he's going to stay aloof, it would make tons more sense for him to get his message out quickly and start being aloof, rather than unnecessarily prolonging the media drama.

And if Lance was going to fight, then why hasn't he sounded off with the defiant "'I'm coming at you with everything I've got!"

Lance has no message. Saying that he's "weighing his options" is not good PR. EVERYTHING that has happened thus far is something that could easily be anticipated and planned for. If there is a contingency plan (and for the money that Lance was paying, there ought to have been many contingency plans covering all the possibilities), then Lance is not following it.

It does seem possible that Lance is 'off script' right now.

 

[WinterRider]

One thought I had after reading the New York Times piece linked above, is that there has been some debate about the precedent being used to go beyond the 8 year SOL.

In the Hellenbuyck ruling:

http://www.usada.org/uploads/hellebuyckaaaruling.pdf

It was his perjury that was the deciding factor that allowed them to go further back. And in Lance's case at least, the same is true. If you go and look at his deposition given in the SCA case:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2011/armstrong-sca-deposition-videos

Even though he trys to avoid stating he never did drugs, instead using language like this "If I never doped, then how could there be evidence of my doping", he does state under oath that he did not dope. This is what will open up everything beyond the SOL. The only difference to the Hellenbuyck case is his testimony was in a separate court proceeding, instead of directly to a USADA hearing board.

I know there was debate about this in the thread, but I haven't seen a statement of why Hellenbuyck applies. I think what I have outlined above is the likely means used. Of course this only applies if he is found to have doped, where as Hellenbuyck later confessed, but an analytical finding based on eye witnesses will work just as well. And of course since they are alleging a conspiracy, Lance's testimony in the SCA case will likely be an important factor in extending the sanction timeline for the 5 co-conspirators as well.

 

[function]

"What he was trying to do". A bit rich from a troll such as yourself. Obviously you can still think that what someone has to say is going to be interesting even if you don't like it. I'm not personally very keen on the present government of my country, but I'm not going to ignore everything they say just because of this. Now, back to your cave.

Why stoop so low as to call someone a troll, can't your comment stand on its own merit? He just doesn't agree with you as he (assuming he's really Korioth) has more invested personally in Armstrong.

 

[Maxiton]

The theory has appeared in the thread, but not so clearly written. I like this take on the legal case, and I hope that you are correct. I would really like to see all the evidence they compiled come out in open court, so that we can finally see all the cards on the table.

I don't think we'll get that from the USADA proceedings, as apparently their hearings are closed to the public.

Thanks for that response. I don't think the hearings being closed will have much bearing on the outcome, of either those hearings or what comes after. For one thing, there will be leaks. And for another, the final disposition - stripping of titles, lifetime ban - and the reasons for it, will presumably be enumerated. Those things alone will be sufficient to get the snowball rolling.

 

[Polish]

Armstrong has retained expensive PR people and he knew that there was a strong possibility that USADA would be coming after him. He even talked about that in the recent article.

My assumption is that Armstrong had a PR contingency plan for when the USADA charges were brought. The PR people always preach advance planning and 'staying ahead of the curve.'

If the contingency plan was nonparticipation in the USADA proceedings, then why didn't Lance make the big 'I'm outta here' statement earlier? If he's going to stay aloof, it would make tons more sense for him to get his message out quickly and start being aloof, rather than unnecessarily prolonging the media drama.

And if Lance was going to fight, then why hasn't he sounded off with the defiant "'I'm coming at you with everything I've got!"

Lance has no message. Saying that he's "weighing his options" is not good PR. EVERYTHING that has happened thus far is something that could easily be anticipated and planned for. If there is a contingency plan (and for the money that Lance was paying, there ought to have been many contingency plans covering all the possibilities), then Lance is not following it.

It does seem possible that Lance is 'off script' right now.

Lance was bluffing. Been known to do that.
"I won't fight any charges. I don't care"

"He is not going to fight?" thinks the USADA.
"Lets add on a few more pages to this powerpoint"
"Lets rush it out before the TdF and the French Tri-Race"

The USADA gets sloppy.
Lance attacks.

Beautiful.

 

[WinterRider]

Armstrong has retained expensive PR people and he knew that there was a strong possibility that USADA would be coming after him. He even talked about that in the recent article.

My assumption is that Armstrong had a PR contingency plan for when the USADA charges were brought. The PR people always preach advance planning and 'staying ahead of the curve.'

If the contingency plan was nonparticipation in the USADA proceedings, then why didn't Lance make the big 'I'm outta here' statement earlier? If he's going to stay aloof, it would make tons more sense for him to get his message out quickly and start being aloof, rather than unnecessarily prolonging the media drama.

And if Lance was going to fight, then why hasn't he sounded off with the defiant "'I'm coming at you with everything I've got!"

Lance has no message. Saying that he's "weighing his options" is not good PR. EVERYTHING that has happened thus far is something that could easily be anticipated and planned for. If there is a contingency plan (and for the money that Lance was paying, there ought to have been many contingency plans covering all the possibilities), then Lance is not following it.

It does seem possible that Lance is 'off script' right now.

I think he is very much on script. My sense is that USADA probably have an airtight case and he knows it. If this is true, then his only chance is to muddy the waters of public perception as much as possible to keep his machine running.

Again, assuming USADA has a good case, there will be a ruling, and it will be against him. If he knows this, then his only game plan is to get people doubting the verdict he knows is coming.

And if you look at all their communication thus far, that is exactly what they are doing. I think they have had this scripted for months. Every tweet he makes on the subject was written months ago, and is being tweeted as part of the overall plan. Or at least that's my reading of the whole sordid affair.

 

[andy1234]

To rephrase- Lance is a proud atheist. He sparked religious debate. Surely you know his views?

Yes, I know his views, but I don't understand the relevance?

 

[MacRoadie]

Lance was lying through his teeth. Been known to do that.

There you go...semantics and all.

 

[Microchip]

Just commenting about the posts that mention how 'nobody cares', meaning the vast majority:

Many of us cycling fans care about cleanness and fairness in the sport. Further, we don't need support from all corners of the globe to validate that we want to see those who cheat, dealt with. We have our own backbone, and it doesn't need propping up with large numbers and vast majorities.

So if 99% of people (in the US) don't care whether LA cheated, they are entitled to their opinion and to care more about golf, tennis, or motorsports.

The remaining 1% are just happy that USADA is pursuing this.

 

[Maxiton]

I think he is very much on script. My sense is that USADA probably have an airtight case and he knows it. If this is true, then his only chance is to muddy the waters of public perception as much as possible to keep his machine running.

Again, assuming USADA has a good case, there will be a ruling, and it will be against him. If he knows this, then his only game plan is to get people doubting the verdict he knows is coming.

And if you look at all their communication thus far, that is exactly what they are doing. I think they have had this scripted for months. Every tweet he makes on the subject was written months ago, and is being tweeted as part of the overall plan. Or at least that's my reading of the whole sordid affair.

I pretty much agree with this.

 

[Polish]

I think he is very much on script. My sense is that USADA probably have an airtight case and he knows it. If this is true, then his only chance is to muddy the waters of public perception as much as possible to keep his machine running.

Again, assuming USADA has a good case, there will be a ruling, and it will be against him. If he knows this, then his only game plan is to get people doubting the verdict he knows is coming.

And if you look at all their communication thus far, that is exactly what they are doing. I think they have had this scripted for months. Every tweet he makes on the subject was written months ago, and is being tweeted as part of the overall plan. Or at least that's my reading of the whole sordid affair.

I agree that Lance has anticipated the USADA charges ever since he was cleared by the Feds and the USADA angrily and petulantly vowed to turn over every stone waa.

But I disagree on the "airtight case".
The USADA case is wobbly.
Wobbly WarHead of a case. KaBoom

 

[spetsa]

Armstrong has retained expensive PR people and he knew that there was a strong possibility that USADA would be coming after him. He even talked about that in the recent article.

My assumption is that Armstrong had a PR contingency plan for when the USADA charges were brought. The PR people always preach advance planning and 'staying ahead of the curve.'

If the contingency plan was nonparticipation in the USADA proceedings, then why didn't Lance make the big 'I'm outta here' statement earlier? If he's going to stay aloof, it would make tons more sense for him to get his message out quickly and start being aloof, rather than unnecessarily prolonging the media drama.

And if Lance was going to fight, then why hasn't he sounded off with the defiant "'I'm coming at you with everything I've got!"

Lance has no message. Saying that he's "weighing his options" is not good PR. EVERYTHING that has happened thus far is something that could easily be anticipated and planned for. If there is a contingency plan (and for the money that Lance was paying, there ought to have been many contingency plans covering all the possibilities), then Lance is not following it.

It does seem possible that Lance is 'off script' right now.

When you know that the script that you paid for s*cks...put your old buddy College back to work.

 

[cleanmarine]

Yes, I know his views, but I don't understand the relevance?

Trace backwards. Report back

 

[Captain Sensible]

? It is time to cut the funding to an apparent waste of time and money.

would this not make ir easier for people to get away with drug taking than it is now?.