USADA - Armstrong

[Leopejo]

LOL.

Then again, I guess Pantani is revered as a people's hero too.

He is, and for me rightfully.

 

[GotDropped]

Wow. I haven't logged in here in months. I must say, the back and forth here is pretty f'ing disappointing. Shouldn't be too surprised, I suppose, based on the downward spiral that this forum has been over the past year or so.

Congratulations to the gate keepers, and especially to those who just can't resist responding to every, single, daily, *** display of idiocy.

Anyway, I'll just leave you with a little observation of my own. You're welcome.

(Actually, Thank You, RR)

No sign of RaceRadio for over 21 hours. I really hope he didn't die before he heard the news. Where are you RR? Enlighten us with your information!

 

[GJB123]

Well I guess the shlt now really has hit the proverbial fan.I can't begin to imagine what the fall out is going to be for existing pro teams, pro riders, DS's, etc.

This will make the Contador-case look like a walk in the park.

Regards
GJ

 

[Benotti69]

Well I guess the shlt now really has hit the proverbial fan.I can't begin to imagine what the fall out is going to be for existing pro teams, pro riders, DS's, etc.

This will make the Contador-case look like a walk in the park.

Regards
GJ

they have no one to blame but themselves. Who are the 'clean' teams supposed to be Garmin and Sky? they all have been part of the Arsmtrong/EPO era!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I don't know cycling is great to watch but a ruling that will have lance stripped of all titles will hurt the sport. Mostly Americans will be turned off from watching pro cycling but that doesn't mean it'll turn them off from participating in cycling.

A lance guilty ruling would mean a lot of people in he USA won't watch cycling. It'll hurt the ratings and maybe sponsorship revenue long term but it won't kill the sport it just won't be aired over here as much which is a raw deal for us americans rooting for the true people's champion denis menchov. Boxing is far more corrupt than cycling. Worst case scenario cycling will continue to be one of those cult sports to watch.

Regardless say what you want about lance but he put cycling on the map. He made the sport popular on a global scale.

If he's guilty I hope he does get his titles stripped. But if the guilty verdict lies mainly with the eyewitness testimonies of dirty riders who have lied in the past, then it will ruin the sport. It sets a precedent that riders can be banned just by pointing the finger at them. Lance is a brash and obnoxious character who has undoubtedly made enemies in the sport. Let's face it he's a cocky American bad asse that put the smack down on all European riders for a decade. If your in the sport as long as lance has been you are bound to have enemies. So I'm not surprised there are witnesses...and that's why you can't rely on witnesses especially if they are the people that have tested positive for doping.

Well then the good news for you (I read the letter for you since it's obvious you didn't actually take the time. I guess all the spinning made you dizzy.) is that there will be testimony from team employees! Spin spin spin. Spin spin spin. Yep, still 10 teammates (some of whom never tested positive either I suspect) AND TEAM EMPLOYEES!!!! Man, it must be a good day for you to find out this wonderful information. It will certainly shorten the time it takes you to write your next troll!

Hold me closer tiny dancer.

 

[GJB123]

they have no one to blame but themselves. Who are the 'clean' teams supposed to be Garmin and Sky? they all have been part of the Arsmtrong/EPO era!

I am not making excuses for anyone. Far from it!! I am just musing what the ramifications will be and they will be humongous, me thinks. That's all.

For example, I can't imagine that Contador is sleeping tightly tonight. This could have serious ramifications for him and he is not the only one by any means.

This can be so huge it is actually hard to get your head around it all.

Regards
GJ

 

[hughmoore]

Where does the USADA charge letter state that it relies on testimony of Landis? Or is every American cyclist who rode for USPS/Disco now a liar too? Did they also lie to USADA when interviewed by them?

Ok, doesnt say that specifically.

"but it says riders who confessed to doping"

Im not sure if any of these riders denied they doped previously as that would make them liars.

Maybe they are not liars, thats right, Landis is not a liar, he wrote a book saying he didnt doped and now he says he did.

"Did they also lie to USADA when interviewed by them" Who knows, one day they are not dopers and the next day they are, maybe tommorrow they wont dopers.

Sounds a bit wishy washy to me.


Hugh

 

[GJB123]

Ok, doesnt say that specifically.

"but it says riders who confessed to doping"

Im not sure if any of these riders denied they doped previously as that would make them liars.

Maybe they are not liars, thats right, Landis is not a liar, he wrote a book saying he didnt doped and now he says he did.

"Did they also lie to USADA when interviewed by them" Who knows, one day they are not dopers and the next day they are, maybe tommorrow they wont dopers.

Sounds a bit wishy washy to me.


Hugh

Actually what you are saying is that having lied once, someone cannot be trusted to speak the truth ever again even if corroborated by evidence and statements of those who have never lied. That is a nice and simple world you live in, although isn't a colorless world (i.e. black and white) rather boring after a while?

Regards
GJ

 

[Benotti69]

I am not making excuses for anyone. Far from it!! I am just musing what the ramifications will be and they will be humongous, me thinks. That's all.

For example, I can't imagine that Contador is sleeping tightly tonight. This could have serious ramifications for him and he is not the only one by any means.

This can be so huge it is actually hard to get your head around it all.

Regards
GJ

It can only be huge if the media get on with really doing it's job properly and i doubt that is going to happen in Spain. Maybe the Italians/CONI will ban Contador like Valverde, but will other Europeans federations follow up on this?

Proof will be what happens now to Bruyneel and the Doctors by European federations. Ferrari was banned from working in sports for life by the Italians so can he go to jail for breaking that, i hope so.

Will McQuaid stand down, i doubt it. Be great if he spilled all the beans but he wont. Maybe IOC will throw him under the bus, but then he will hang out Verbruggen and that is not going to happen.

If this creates a dominio effect to reach all the way to IOC level it would be fantastic. But it needs the media to do it's job and mostly they have long ago given up the founding principals of journalism for soundbites and freebies. Will Walsh, Kimmage and people like Ballestre who have fought the long battle of doping be enough this time? I am not sure! I hope so.

 

[Euskaltel!]

About f**king time

 

[hughmoore]

Actually what you are saying is that having lied once, someone cannot be trusted to speak the truth ever again even if corroborated by evidence and statements of those who have never lied. That is a nice and simple world you live in, although isn't a colorless world (i.e. black and white) rather boring after a while?

Regards
GJ

No, but people who lie are less reliable witnesses than those who dont.

Where is this corroboration you speak of?


Hugh

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I know this question has probably been asked 100 times before but...

...with all that's lined up against him here, is there any chance that Armstrong coughs to the whole lot ?

 

[User Guide]

I know this question has probably been asked 100 times before but...

...with all that's lined up against him here, is there any chance that Armstrong coughs to the whole lot ?

No,
(10 chars)

 

[mwbyrd]

I think I read somewhere, that the federal investigation began just after Floyd came out, and went on for a long time, during that time USADA said that they would wait for the federal investigation to end before they made procedings of their own. That could be the reason for the delay, and maybe before Floyd came out they didn't have the proof (in regards to witnesses and testimony) in order to pursue a case.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

But I have to question this. The federal investigation should not have any effect on the USADA determining if someone doped or not. If they had evidence of doping, it should have been made public. Heck, Floyd basically knew 3 days after the tour. Contador within 30 days. And now LA finds out 2 years later??

USADA's job is to enforce doping and providing for clean sport. I don't see how they did their job if they knew about it before the federal investigation ended.

 

[hughmoore]

But I have to question this. The federal investigation should not have any effect on the USADA determining if someone doped or not. If they had evidence of doping, it should have been made public. Heck, Floyd basically knew 3 days after the tour. Contador within 30 days. And now LA finds out 2 years later??

USADA's job is to enforce doping and providing for clean sport. I don't see how they did their job if they knew about it before the federal investigation ended.

That's because Lance is dominating Tri/Ironman and they are jealous, bring it out now to stop him winning the Kona.


Hugh

 

[yourwelcome]

He is, and for me rightfully.

How wonderful for you. Worrying about logic won't be keeping you awake at night.

 

[GJB123]

No, but people who lie are less reliable witnesses than those who dont.

Where is this corroboration you speak of?


Hugh

You have gotta be joking. People who come clean (even after having lied) and effectively implicating themselves are as trustworthy as pieces of shlt like Lance Armstrong. But I will leave you to your own devices in your litte LA-fanboi bubble.

Oh and corroboration. The letter speaks of at least 10 former riders and/or employees who have testified against your big hero. Now will that only be people who have lied before, so you summarily dismiss their testimony at your own convenience. Wake up and smell the coffee! Your wonder boy is going down in a blaze of fire.

Regards
GJ

 

[yourwelcome]

I know this question has probably been asked 100 times before but...

...with all that's lined up against him here, is there any chance that Armstrong coughs to the whole lot ?

Yes, if at some point it rationally stacks up in his favour to do so.

imho.

 

[The Valley]

Ah, today's already a good day, and this is the icing on the cake!

I can't believe he's still coming out with the same transparently childish nonsense about "waste of taxpayers' money" as a defence.

His claim to have never failed a doping test is a well-known lie, as he failed a test during the Tour for corticosteroids - I guess he's relying on the casual sports fan not knowing about this.

He's claiming that USADA are acting out of "spite". Why would an organisation launch an expensive charge out of "spite"? Makes no sense.

And finally regarding his attempt to suggest that as he's been tested hundreds of times and never failed a test (which as we know is a lie), he must be innocent...well, we know what a crock that is. Did Bjarne Riis ever test positive? No! Then he must be innocent, right? Did Virenque ever return a positive test? No! Then he must be innocent, right? The absence of evidence does not imply evidence of absence.

I think Armstrong is finally - FINALLY - going to get ripped a new one.

 

[mwbyrd]

Oh, please do not bring up the tax payer dollars issue. Take your Lance marching orders elsewhere. We blow money on all kinds of crap in the US and blowing a few million to prove that Armstrong is a doper is just fine with me!

Sorry, it was a play on words. It was a poke at the government and their wasteful spending. But I am surprised you are OK with the Govt. wasting your money on LA. I'm not happy about it. Nor am I happy with the Govt. wasting money on MLB.

Consistent with is not proof. I think the point is that all of his "passed" tests, are consistent with doping, but were not enough to prove it.

When taken in conjunction with all of the eyewitness testimony though, they must feel it adds value to the case.

How would you like to be found guilty on a 'maybe' he was doing it kind of result and 'Mary and John' said he did it? This whole thing doesn't add up. For a group to be able to destroy someone (and I mean anyone) based on conjecture is horrible.

The reason they didn't act in 2010 was because of the Federal Investigation. They stated this at the time. That they'd wait for its conclusion before acting.

USADA have also being interviewing riders since 09/10 and collecting evidence. They have also been in touch with "bodies" in Europe whom have also passed on evidence.

Lets not get silly here.

See above remark. If the above is true, the problem is much bigger than LA. It means that USADA has no idea what it's doing and the testing is worthless - especially if they are claiming he doped his whole career.

I disagree. If they could have acted they would.

I suspect that when they say the samples are consistent with doping, they do not mean that they prove doping by themselves. So they likely do not classify as positive tests.

Thanks for agreeing. I know I'd hate to be an athlete these days. There isn't any way to prove your innocence. If USADA is successful, they will be telling every athlete 'We are in total control of our lives. We can decide what we want'.

I wonder how their case will hold up in court if LA takes it that far?

 

[The Gnome]

"The Fanboys will never believe it unless Lance admits it in a video recording."

Even then I highly doubt that they would believe it...they would say he was railroaded or forced into it...an innocent man, christlike even, takes fall in order to continue to save cancer patients blah blah blah...I would put nothing past them...

 

[noddy69]

That's because Lance is dominating Tri/Ironman and they are jealous, bring it out now to stop him winning the Kona.


Hugh

You are having a laugh. He had a string of mediocre results for a man who wanted to win the worlds against guys who wouldnt stand a chance. He did win the florida 70.3 event alright but dominate is delusional.

As for my take on the issue. I am glad the case has been taken after all these years whatever the outcome. There is no witch hunt , just evidence to suggest doping was practised, therefore it must be investigated for the good of cycling.
Nobody is bigger than or has a right to be bigger than the sport, no matter what good they do outside of it( and there are some dubious practises there)
Yes its late and should have happened years ago. But It didnt. Its happening now. Whether you believe he did or he didnt is a side issue. Hopefully it will all be cleared up and cycling can move on from an era of mass cheating in the pelaton.

 

[Bavarianrider]

So Ullrich will be a 4 time Tour de France winner, soon. Great

 

[Stingray34]

really, where is RR? I'm starting to worry

 

[Berzin]

Really, where is RR? I'm starting to worry.

I was thinking the same thing all of yesterday afternoon and this morning.

I hope he's OK.

Oh and corroboration. The letter speaks of at least 10 former riders and/or employees who have testified against your big hero.

Regards
GJ

Actually, what I got from reading the USADA accusations is that they had 10 riders testify and others who were not riders.

So it is more than ten in total who testified, but ten of whom were teammates.