USADA - Armstrong

[MarkvW]

Lance's point was:

so the assumption is that the bill of indictment was presented.

Or that Lance is blowing smoke about what happened in the GJ just like everybody else was blowing smoke.

 

[BotanyBay]

The investigation was not before the GJ?

Gotta love obfuscation, eh?

GJs hear evidence. That's one thing. Sometimes that is all they're asked to do and they go home, never to hear another peep.

Other times, they're asked to DO something in reaction to the evidence. That didn't happen, but the former DID happen.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Gotta love obfuscation, eh?

GJs hear evidence. That's one thing. Sometimes that is all they're asked to do and they go home, never to hear another peep.

Other times, they're asked to DO something in reaction to the evidence. That didn't happen, but the former DID happen.

Exactly. This should be the end of this endlessly stupid argument.

 

[BotanyBay]

Actually, the denuding of slander laws and international internet sites, for the moment, allows you to slander away...for the moment. Free speech, does not excuse slander. The distruction of reputation in false light is a old trick. Sometimes it may be based on some truth, but as the gossip grows it is spiced up with salt in the wound.

That's where one should gaurd against the hypocracy of going to any means to win. Especially in regards to doping in sport and your stance.

What were the southern state's were all about in the Amercian Cival War? "We're fight'en for are rites!" "We got rites."

Actually, the proper term is libel, but you being so adept at legalese, you probably already knew that.

You probably were just waiting to see who pointed out that slander is a term used for the spoken word, and not the written one.

 

[BotanyBay]

Unfortunately, unless a Mod chooses to step in, the world in which people like you are allowed to slander at will is a sad state. Victory at any cost is exactly what you say your on a conquest against, and yet you use any means yourself? Do you realise your calling rider A completely clean with no absolute proof, while convicting rider B with evidence yet to be seen.

You'll find no better collection of total cycling doping knowledge anywhere else but right here in the clinic. We tend to remember situations and facts. Wish you could drop an a-bomb right here, eh?

 

[JRTinMA]

Well said. Apologies warranted & needed to heal the sport.

The greatest apology would be to Hincapie for tainting his entire career.

People like you remind me that very few of the clinic care about a clean sport. Every last doper should be run out of cycling. Most of you tools only want the blood of Armstrong. I want every last doper out, from andreau to zabriskie and every doper in between. Blow it up and start over.

 

[TexPat]

People like you remind me that very few of the clinic care about a clean sport. Every last doper should be run out of cycling. Most of you tools only want the blood of Armstrong. I want every last doper out, from andreau to zabriskie and every doper in between. Blow it up and start over.

I think you're very very wrong on the first part, but couldn't agree more with the last.

 

[Race Radio]

People like you remind me that very few of the clinic care about a clean sport. Every last doper should be run out of cycling. Most of you tools only want the blood of Armstrong. I want every last doper out, from andreau to zabriskie and every doper in between. Blow it up and start over.

Says the guy who defends wonderboy every chance he gets

Doping has never been the sole measure of a person. Vaughters, Aldag, Andreu, and a few others, have worked hard to change the sport and given opportunities. Tossing them out is myopic and would only damage the sport further.

 

[Race Radio]

Good news! the Petition to save America's hero, Lance Armstrong, from the USADA witch hunt, is now up to 901 signatures!

Only 24,099 to go!

Guess we know were America stands on the Myth

 

[Love the Scenery]

I want every last doper out, from andreau to zabriskie and every doper in between.

I think that, like many others, you fail to distinguish between levels of doping, levels of involvement in doping, and of course different types of action from stupidity to sheer evil. Every doper should be found out and receive an appropriate sanction, but the lifetime ban is a punishment reserved for those who commit the worst offenses against a sport. Read the USADA letter again. Armstrong is not merely accused of doping. He is accused of corrupting the entire sport. He is accused of distributing drugs to others, he is accused of using threats and coercion to enforce a code of silence, and he is accused of many years of an organized conspiracy to deceive antidoping authorities. It is also well known that he has been accused of improperly influencing the UCI with his monetary donations. Do you seriously want us to put Dave Zabriskie in the same category as Lance Armstrong? Has Dave Zabriskie made large contributions to the UCI? Has Dave Zabriskie chased down breakaways because they criticized his doctor? Has Dave Zabriskie been accused of not just doping, but of running a major organized multimillion dollar doping operation, coercing teammates into doping, coercing everybody into silence, using threats to enforce omerta? No, there are reasons why it is more important that Armstrong face justice than that Zabriskie or Hincapie face justice. If the allegations are true, Armstrong was not merely a drug consumer, he was a kingpin who bought wholesale and distributed to others.

We can and we should make distinctions between different levels of involvement with doping. The best thing about this procedure is that finally the team manager and the doctors are targets too, not just the riders. I think the team manger who operates a doping system is far, far worse than most of the riders. I actually sympathize with some riders who might have doped.

 

[TexPat]

I think that, like many others, you fail to distinguish between levels of doping, levels of involvement in doping, and of course different types of action from stupidity to sheer evil. Every doper should be found out and receive an appropriate sanction, but the lifetime ban is a punishment reserved for those who commit the worst offenses against a sport. Read the USADA letter again. Armstrong is not merely accused of doping. He is accused of corrupting the entire sport. He is accused of distributing drugs to others, he is accused of using threats and coercion to enforce a code of silence, and he is accused of many years of an organized conspiracy to deceive antidoping authorities. It is also well known that he has been accused of improperly influencing the UCI with his monetary donations. Do you seriously want us to put Dave Zabriskie in the same category as Lance Armstrong? Has Dave Zabriskie made large contributions to the UCI? Has Dave Zabriskie chased down breakaways because they criticized his doctor? Has Dave Zabriskie been accused of not just doping, but of running a major organized multimillion dollar doping operation, coercing teammates into doping, coercing everybody into silence, using threats to enforce omerta? No, there are reasons why it is more important that Armstrong face justice than that Zabriskie or Hincapie face justice. If the allegations are true, Armstrong was not merely a drug consumer, he was a kingpin who bought wholesale and distributed to others.

We can and we should make distinctions between different levels of involvement with doping. The best thing about this procedure is that finally the team manager and the doctors are targets too, not just the riders. I think the team manger who operates a doping system is far, far worse than most of the riders. I actually sympathize with some riders who might have doped.

That was very well stated. I have divided them into three camps:
1. The sheep--DZ, etc
2. The jackasses--FL, Ullrich
3. The jackals-you know who, Ricco

The first two might deserve clemency after sanctions. The third deserve lifetime bans, especially repeat offenders.

 

[cleanmarine]

4. And New Jack City King-Lance

 

[BotanyBay]

Not sure if this has ever been mentioned here before, but I'd personally never seen anything in print confirming that Armstrong was totally in bed with WTC. And here it is:

Simultaneously, Armstrong's Livestrong foundation unveiled a partnership with the Ironman series that included fundraising for the foundation and Ironman's sponsorship of Livestrong events. Since then, Armstrong has competed in five half-Ironman events and has won the past two, in Florida and Hawaii. But under WTC qualifying rules, in order to be among the 50-man professional field at worlds, he must compete in a full Ironman event by the end of August, along with achieving a high-enough world ranking.

Find it here.

And now it makes total sense that Armstrong wasn't tested at his first event down in Panama. He's totally got a stake in the action.

And how many other pro triathletes got their own WTC board meeting to consider junking the rule that kept them out of competition pending their anti-doping cases? I'd hate to be is Messick's shoes right now. On one hand, he's got Lance giving him beat-downs over the phone, and on the other side, the world is watching. Messick ultimately chose to preserve his sport, even though he was banking on Lance to help bring it up to the next level.

 

[BotanyBay]

Time for a grass-roots effort to begin in The Clinic. Worldwide "Come out of the doping closet" day. They can't very well toss everyone from the sport if everyone crosses the line at the same time.

And yes, that is John Travolta in "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble" (1976). One day, he came out of the closet and left that bubble behind. Ironic, eh?

Seriously. A game of musical chairs is going on right now. Pro cyclists can either be part of the steamroller or part of the road. Choose.

 

[BotanyBay]

I think that, like many others, you fail to distinguish between levels of doping, levels of involvement in doping, and of course different types of action from stupidity to sheer evil. Every doper should be found out and receive an appropriate sanction, but the lifetime ban is a punishment reserved for those who commit the worst offenses against a sport. Read the USADA letter again. Armstrong is not merely accused of doping. He is accused of corrupting the entire sport. He is accused of distributing drugs to others, he is accused of using threats and coercion to enforce a code of silence, and he is accused of many years of an organized conspiracy to deceive antidoping authorities. It is also well known that he has been accused of improperly influencing the UCI with his monetary donations. Do you seriously want us to put Dave Zabriskie in the same category as Lance Armstrong? Has Dave Zabriskie made large contributions to the UCI? Has Dave Zabriskie chased down breakaways because they criticized his doctor? Has Dave Zabriskie been accused of not just doping, but of running a major organized multimillion dollar doping operation, coercing teammates into doping, coercing everybody into silence, using threats to enforce omerta? No, there are reasons why it is more important that Armstrong face justice than that Zabriskie or Hincapie face justice. If the allegations are true, Armstrong was not merely a drug consumer, he was a kingpin who bought wholesale and distributed to others.

We can and we should make distinctions between different levels of involvement with doping. The best thing about this procedure is that finally the team manager and the doctors are targets too, not just the riders. I think the team manger who operates a doping system is far, far worse than most of the riders. I actually sympathize with some riders who might have doped.

Chapeau! +1

 

[benzwire]

And yes, that is John Travolta in "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble" (1976). One day, he came out of the closet and left that bubble behind. Ironic, eh?

Uhh, I think John Travolta is still in the closet. NTTAWWT

 

[mewmewmew13]

Uhh, I think John Travolta is still in the closet. NTTAWWT

Or...he came out of the closet 'beautifully dressed'

 

[Race Radio]

Not sure if this has ever been mentioned here before, but I'd personally never seen anything in print confirming that Armstrong was totally in bed with WTC. And here it is:



Find it here.

And now it makes total sense that Armstrong wasn't tested at his first event down in Panama. He's totally got a stake in the action.

And how many other pro triathletes got their own WTC board meeting to consider junking the rule that kept them out of competition pending their anti-doping cases? I'd hate to be is Messick's shoes right now. On one hand, he's got Lance giving him beat-downs over the phone, and on the other side, the world is watching. Messick ultimately chose to preserve his sport, even though he was banking on Lance to help bring it up to the next level.

WTC is owned by a PE group who want to expand it greatly, sell it, then pocket a bunch of cash.

They hired Messick, a big name in sports, they then bought a group of races in Australia. They then made the big mistake of getting into bed with Armstrong

It is too bad they banned him. I was looking forward to him messing up that sport too.

 

[jonny testaronny]

The 10

has it been sussed who the 10 riders are

Floyd
Tyler
Hincapie
Leipheimer
Vande Velde
Zabriskie
Andreu
Vaughters?
McCarty?
Danielson?
Barry?
Cruz?

I'd guess Livingstone over McCarty (never on the A-team) and Barry (not American). As a known Ferrari client, he almost certainly would have been called in for a chat--and all who talked to the USADA, talked to the USADA, reportedly.

 

[jonny testaronny]

Where's the Goobster?

By the way--whatever happened to that Goober guy, who claimed to have extra-special inside knowledge of the LA investigation, and insinuated charges were dropped because there was no evidence against LA to be found?

 

[Race Radio]

has it been sussed who the 10 riders are

Floyd
Tyler
Hincapie
Leipheimer
Vande Velde
Zabriskie
Andreu
Vaughters?
McCarty?
Danielson?
Barry?
Cruz?

Insert Jemison an Kevin L. Take out Berry, Cruz, and McCarty

 

[Race Radio]

By the way--whatever happened to that Goober guy, who claimed to have extra-special inside knowledge of the LA investigation, and insiuated charges were dropped because there was no evidence against LA to be found?

Good point. He also babbled about leaks and a massive conspiracy.....and then there is this classic

It's over and USADA is over as it relates to Lance and doping. Time for everyone to move on...

 

[MarkvW]

Not sure if this has ever been mentioned here before, but I'd personally never seen anything in print confirming that Armstrong was totally in bed with WTC. And here it is:



Find it here.

And now it makes total sense that Armstrong wasn't tested at his first event down in Panama. He's totally got a stake in the action.

And how many other pro triathletes got their own WTC board meeting to consider junking the rule that kept them out of competition pending their anti-doping cases? I'd hate to be is Messick's shoes right now. On one hand, he's got Lance giving him beat-downs over the phone, and on the other side, the world is watching. Messick ultimately chose to preserve his sport, even though he was banking on Lance to help bring it up to the next level.

Wow! He's a part owner of the events he's competing in? What a screaming conflict of interest.

 

[Anonymous]

Insert Jemison an Kevin L. Take out Berry, Cruz, and McCarty

Jemison??

Not surprised he's charged... Just surprised he made it through the interview without slugging somebody.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow! He's a part owner of the events he's competing in? What a screaming conflict of interest.

That can't surprise you.