USADA - Armstrong

[spetsa]

What makes that a desperate statement from Lance?


That is below the belt.

No, below the belt is hiring PI's to follow those around whom you are afraid are going to ruin you, so you can attempt to ruin them first. Not only below the belt, but borderline psychotic. Definetly paranoid.

 

[college]

I would think an innocent man would simply provide counter-arguments to the evidence against him. But it would seem he decided not to do that when asked. I hope you're incorrect and slandering those involved isn't his only recourse, as surely that would only serve to confirm his guilt?

I can understand how you took my post as me promoting slander. That is not what I was pointing out. Whenever you accuse someone who has the money and resources that Lance has you should expect that Lance will not just go away.
No one here has said that they support the fact that one of these guys might be a sexual predator. If the alleged assault is true then wouldn’t that put a different face on the integrity of the review panel member?

 

[red_flanders]

Well not having the two on the case might make it more believable considering Floyd and Tyler are not exactly model citizens.

Well, in terms of cycling, I can't see where either did anything more than most other riders. They both doped and lied about it, but that's really not unique, is it? Floyd went beyond ballistic and while everything he said about the doping has been supported by the facts and by other riders, he is someone who can be painted as having exposed the situation out of bearing a grudge. However that doesn't exactly refute what he has to say, does it?

As far as Tyler, I can't see anything he's said or done that would make him any more or less a model citizen that any other cyclist. So he doped. I'm glad he finally came clean, the lie was too big for him to sustain.

I don't think there's any fear that the case rests on one or both of their stories, and I'm confident it's all been corroborated by other testimony and other facts. That's an opinion.

I sure hope we hear the entire case at some point, but somehow I don't see Armstrong wanting the full story made public.

 

[Polish]

Lemond? Hinault? You are making stuff up.

Lemond will no doubt show up at the Tour to take his traditional annual Dump on Lance. And this year Greg will be plugging his new book too. So charming.

Jeez, I hope Hinault is in the studio that day. Runs over and wrestles Greg to the floor. Then yells "STFU Greg".

That would be a cool Badger Moment.
Classic Badger Grrrrr.

BTW, is the accused Indecent Exposure Guy still on the quasi governent payroll at the USADA? If so, maybe a quasi-whistle blower lawsuit could be launched?

 

[henryg]

I was not putting these two separate situations together like you have.
Once Lance’s private investigators get finished with the gentlemen at usada they will understand what it means to play hardball.

Really? You believe that's what LA is up to? If Armstrong's only defense is to smear the private lives of anyone involved in the investigation and hearings (rather then disprove the evidence) then all he will accomplish is to prove himself to be a low-life scumbag as well as a doper.

So he has no defense and instead will rely on intimidation? Class act. Good luck with that.

 

[red_flanders]

I can understand how you took my post as me promoting slander. That is not what I was pointing out. Whenever you accuse someone who has the money and resources that Lance has you should expect that Lance will not just go away.
No one here has said that they support the fact that one of these guys might be a sexual predator. If the alleged assault is true then wouldn’t that put a different face on the integrity of the review panel member?

I took your post as rooting for slandering anyone involved in going after Armstrong, surely that's what you meant? No I would not expect Lance to go away. I think it's shameful that he resorts to attacking a member of the review board (not the arbitration board) and seems to have no argument for the facts in the case. It makes him more unbelievable to me. I think it's sleazy what he's doing and you seem to be indicating we should expect more of it.

Not sure what is meant by "No one here has said they support the fact that one of these guys might be a sexual predator..."

Well, what someone might be isn't really a fact, is it? I'm not sure what there is to support one way or another. Seems like really bad form for USADA to let someone with a dodgy past be involved.

But again, none of this has anything to do with the case against Armstrong, it's simple character assassination. When I see that, all kinds of flags go up. It's just like in a forum when one member starts insulting the other one, I figure they've run out of argument. It's childish and ineffective in my view.

 

[college]

Really? You believe that's what LA is up to? If Armstrong's only defense is to smear the private lives of anyone involved in the investigation and hearings (rather then disprove the evidence) then all he will accomplish is to prove himself to be a low-life scumbag as well as a doper.

So he has no defense and instead will rely on intimidation? Class act. Good luck with that.

I am not sure you are saying that I have said Lance’s only defense is to smear someone but I have not made that assertion.
Lance will have a thorough defense. It will not be centered around smearing people. Additionally if some of these guys have something to hide or have questionable integrity issues surrounding them then why would they be in the position to make judgement decisions?

 

[college]

I took your post as rooting for slandering anyone involved in going after Armstrong, surely that's what you meant? No I would not expect Lance to go away. I think it's shameful that he resorts to attacking a member of the review board (not the arbitration board) and seems to have no argument for the facts in the case. It makes him more unbelievable to me. I think it's sleazy what he's doing and you seem to be indicating we should expect more of it.

Not sure what is meant by "No one here has said they support the fact that one of these guys might be a sexual predator..."

Well, what someone might be isn't really a fact, is it? I'm not sure what there is to support one way or another. Seems like really bad form for USADA to let someone with a dodgy past be involved.

But again, none of this has anything to do with the case against Armstrong, it's simple character assassination. When I see that, all kinds of flags go up. It's just like in a forum when one member starts insulting the other one, I figure they've run out of argument. It's childish and ineffective in my view.

This is not a sporting match.
First of all I am not rooting for Lance to slander someone. What I am trying to say is that it is predictable that Lance would have his resources take a look at the people who are accusing him. Rooting?
The alleged sexual predator comment was because in the end it brings up integrity issues for that review board member.
Where have I called anyone names? It has happened to me before on this thread but I never called anyone anything.

 

[spetsa]

This is not a sporting match.
First of all I am not rooting for Lance to slander someone. What I am trying to say is that it is predictable that Lance would have his resources take a look at the people who are accusing him. Rooting?
The alleged sexual predator comment was because in the end it brings up integrity issues for that review board member.
Where have I called anyone names? It has happened to me before on this thread but I never called anyone anything.

If in all 50 states, criminals (felons in 1/3 of the states) can sit on a "jury of your peers" to determine one's guilt or innocence in a criminal matter, why is this any different? Lance seems to be crying about the fact that the process isn't that of a criminal matter.

Let's start a list of the USADA process's similarities with the judicial system.

1- see above

 

[henryg]

I am not sure you are saying that I have said Lance’s only defense is to smear someone but I have not made that assertion.
Lance will have a thorough defense. It will not be centered around smearing people. Additionally if some of these guys have something to hide or have questionable integrity issues surrounding them then why would they be in the position to make judgement decisions?

So should the USADA be looking into Armstrong's private life separate from his professional behavior? Any visits to strip clubs, how he treated his girlfriends, wives, kids, friends and any other dirt they can dig up that has absolutely nothing to do with the case?

Are you kidding? So you are telling me he will have a defense and he will also be smearing them. That makes it OK then... I hope Armstrong can take it as well as dish it out. Because all of the character assassination he engaged in will be coming round. Can you say Karma?

If he is found guilty of doping and stripped of any titles the press will go into a feeding frenzy. There is nothing they like better then a scandal with a high profile celebrity. Everything he has ever done will be red meat for the tabloids. He'll be on the receiving end of what he is has been dishing out times 10.

 

[Big Doopie]

Lance will have a thorough defense.

and you know this precisely how...?

It will not be centered around smearing people.

all evidence points to the opposite.

Additionally if some of these guys have something to hide or have questionable integrity issues surrounding them then why would they be in the position to make judgement decisions?

really...?

the problem with every single one of your arguments is that armstrong is 100% guilty of every accusation cited by the usada.

armstrong is a fraudulent, lying sociopath who has done terrible harm to many, many honest individuals. i, for one, am not ashamed to wish him every ill that might come from a usada judgment. he deserves it.

 

[frenchfry]

I wouldn't think it was an innocent coincidence that Armstrong's team knew who the members of the review board were and had information on the private life of one of them, and all this in a very short time after the review board's decision being known.

On the other hand, what the heck is someone with this kind of problem doing involved with Armstrong's case. Hopefully USADA will be more careful in the future (unless they weren't aware of the situation).

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

...No I would not expect Lance to go away. I think it's shameful that he resorts to attacking a member of the review board (not the arbitration board) and seems to have no argument for the facts in the case. It makes him more unbelievable to me. I think it's sleazy what he's doing and you seem to be indicating we should expect more of it.

Agree 100%. Lance would be better off keeping his bleeping mouth shut and devoting his energies to his defense. The court of public opinion should not be his focus. I also agree he looks more sleazy attacking anyone and everyone publicly and that does make him appear more guilty. What he has to realize is that he's really not guilty yet until they can prove him guilty.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

This is not a sporting match.
First of all I am not rooting for Lance to slander someone. What I am trying to say is that it is predictable that Lance would have his resources take a look at the people who are accusing him. Rooting?
The alleged sexual predator comment was because in the end it brings up integrity issues for that review board member.
Where have I called anyone names? It has happened to me before on this thread but I never called anyone anything.

That even a someone accused of being a sexual predator can see that Lance is lying junkie scum should give you pause. For supporting someone even common criminals believe to be worse is certainly noteworthy. Exposing yourself is nothing compared to looking into the eyes of children and adults with cancer, and lying about your achievements. Worse yet is lying about your scheme to make a profit from your moneymaking website most people think is the same thing as your charity site, which it certainly is not. No, using other people's cancer to make a profit is one of the scummiest things I have ever seen. I wouldn't trust him around my children. Sad.

 

[red_flanders]

This is not a sporting match.
First of all I am not rooting for Lance to slander someone. What I am trying to say is that it is predictable that Lance would have his resources take a look at the people who are accusing him. Rooting?
The alleged sexual predator comment was because in the end it brings up integrity issues for that review board member.
Where have I called anyone names? It has happened to me before on this thread but I never called anyone anything.

You haven't that I've seen, it was an example. A comparison.

I would be concerned about the integrity of the board if it were an issue before Armstrong and company came into their sights, but I think most people can see it's a transparent attempt to shoot the messenger and get the press talking about anything but the facts in the case. Effective for the general public, and clearly that's the constituency they're trying to affect, so the strategy makes sense for them.

Anyone with any real understanding of the system, the sport and the principals involved has to wonder whether to laugh or cry, as the hero who so often has castigated others for "harming the sport" tries to drag down the sport in his final throes. Heck, it might work out for him, but it's selfish, cynical, bad for the sport and frankly (IMO) disgusting behavior.

The guy has too much to protect to walk away, but let's not pretend it's anything more than that.

 

[Silver]

So should the USADA be looking into Armstrong's private life separate from his professional behavior? Any visits to strip clubs, how he treated his girlfriends, wives, kids, friends and any other dirt they can dig up that has absolutely nothing to do with the case?

Are you kidding? So you are telling me he will have a defense and he will also be smearing them. That makes it OK then... I hope Armstrong can take it as well as dish it out. Because all of the character assassination he engaged in will be coming round. Can you say Karma?

Lance wins that one every time. We already know he stinks like a sewer rat. He'll just brush all the stuff that comes up as "old news".

How do you perform a character assasination on someone with no character?

 

[MarkvW]

No, below the belt is hiring PI's to follow those around whom you are afraid are going to ruin you, so you can attempt to ruin them first. Not only below the belt, but borderline psychotic. Definetly paranoid.

VERY bad PR too!

 

[KingsMountain]

It's very disappointing that the USADA would make this kind of misstep. Griffith was charged in March, and entered his Alford plea on June 12. As of the plea date, he assuredly should have been replaced on the review board. A comparison of his actions and Armstrong's is irrelevant. The USADA has to have and appear to have people of good judgement on the review board.

Armstrong is very unlikely to win on the facts of the case; here the USADA has needlessly given him points in a PR battle.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

It's very disappointing that the USADA would make this kind of misstep. Griffith was charged in March, and entered his Alford plea on June 12. As of the plea date, he assuredly should have been replaced on the review board. A comparison of his actions and Armstrong's is irrelevant. The USADA has to have and appear to have people of good judgement on the review board.

Armstrong is very unlikely to win on the facts of the case; here the USADA has needlessly given him points in a PR battle.

That's really all that matters.

 

[Kennf1]

On the other hand, what the heck is someone with this kind of problem doing involved with Armstrong's case. Hopefully USADA will be more careful in the future (unless they weren't aware of the situation).

I had the same thought. Assuming USADA was unaware of his issue, he should have declined the appointment, knowing that this is the highest profile case USADA has ever had. Needless distraction.

 

[Polish]

That even a someone accused of being a sexual predator can see that Lance is lying junkie scum should give you pause. Sad.

It did not suprise ME. And the fact that a "review" board member was so excited about the case moving to the arbitrators speaks volumes too.

You know, watching the majesty of THE TdF this morning reminded me of what makes the sport of Cycling so great and grand. THE TdF started it all. The TdF is King. Eddy himself may be considered the King, but he is more like the Secretary of the State.

The Tour is much older than the UCI. The Tour is probably not even too aware of the UCI's naughty nephew the USADA.

The Tour decides who is on the Honor Roll of Awesome Victors. Not the UCI. Not the USADA lol. If anyone thinks the ASO will blindly follow any smear job sanctions from a pipsqueak gang of heinous budget money slurpers - they are sadly mistaken. Sadly boohoo.

PS....Shack Attack Yellow Jersey Smack.

PPS.....Vive le Tour!

 

[thehog]

That even a someone accused of being a sexual predator can see that Lance is lying junkie scum should give you pause. For supporting someone even common criminals believe to be worse is certainly noteworthy. Exposing yourself is nothing compared to looking into the eyes of children and adults with cancer, and lying about your achievements. Worse yet is lying about your scheme to make a profit from your moneymaking website most people think is the same thing as your charity site, which it certainly is not. No, using other people's cancer to make a profit is one of the scummiest things I have ever seen. I wouldn't trust him around my children. Sad.

100% +1.

Not that one should compare such incidents but the man does appear to have trouble recognising the sham that he is.\

At SCA trial he said he'd never dope for the 1000's of cancer suffers around the world. What sort of man is he?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

It did not suprise ME. And the fact that a "review" board member was so excited about the case moving to the arbitrators speaks volumes too.

You know, watching the majesty of THE TdF this morning reminded me of what makes the sport of Cycling so great and grand. THE TdF started it all. The TdF is King. Eddy himself may be considered the King, but he is more like the Secretary of the State.

The Tour is much older than the UCI. The Tour is probably not even too aware of the UCI's naughty nephew the USADA.

The Tour decides who is on the Honor Roll of Awesome Victors. Not the UCI. Not the USADA lol. If anyone thinks the ASO will blindly follow any smear job sanctions from a pipsqueak gang of heinous budget money slurpers - they are sadly mistaken. Sadly boohoo.

PS....Shack Attack Yellow Jersey Smack.

PPS.....Vive le Tour!

Yea, but now that everyone knows he's junkie scum (even his fans lol), it really is best that he be stricken from the rolls of honor. Take back those fancy porcelain plates too. Smash them maybe? Like Landis. Smash them. Or maybe sell them for drugs. Junkies do that. Gotta juice to win this new Tri series he is proposing. I wonder how many health people will want to win Junkie Tri. Maybe "J Dot" tattoos?

PS...Its RSNT. The Junkie master is missing though. Genius of junkies really. Too bad he was asked to leave. Would have liked to hear the interviews. "How did it feel to get served right off the plane?" "Have you hired private dicks too?" "Did you mean to leave the important chapters out of 'We Might As Well Win?"

PPS...Vive le Tour indeed!

 

[college]

Yea, but now that everyone knows he's junkie scum (even his fans lol), it really is best that he be stricken from the rolls of honor. Take back those fancy porcelain plates too. Smash them maybe? Like Landis. Smash them. Or maybe sell them for drugs. Junkies do that. Gotta juice to win this new Tri series he is proposing. I wonder how many health people will want to win Junkie Tri. Maybe "J Dot" tattoos?

PS...Its RSNT. The Junkie master is missing though. Genius of junkies really. Too bad he was asked to leave. Would have liked to hear the interviews. "How did it feel to get served right off the plane?" "Have you hired private dicks too?" "Did you mean to leave the important chapters out of 'We Might As Well Win?"

PPS...Vive le Tour indeed!

The word you should be looking for is alleged.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

100% +1.

Not that one should compare such incidents but the man does appear to have trouble recognising the sham that he is.\

At SCA trial he said he'd never dope for the 1000's of cancer suffers around the world. What sort of man is he?

He didn't dope for them. It's not about the bike. Busted his veins 6 hours a day. What are you on? He was apparently on a pretty complex cocktail. Every junkie's like a setting sun. But they don't want him on the volcano now. Nobody uses junkies as marketing shills. Junkies attract more junkies. Nobody wants to see that anymore. Well, except Armstrong fans. They like the junkies.