USADA - Bruyneel, Celaya, Garcial del Moral, Ferrari, Marti

[thehog]

What about Bruyneel's classic,

We Might As Well Win: On the Road to Success with the Mastermind Behind Eight Tour de France Victories

I saw it at the 99-Cent Store.

Bookended with Walsh's new book?

 

[Hugh Januss]

And what is the truth? tell us the truth. If Bruynnel say something you dont like wont be the truth for you, I think.

He is the only person, if I have understand well his interview that I have read tell today there are not a lot of changes, nor Lance, nor Hamilton,.. any people, he is the only one... but, why to trust someone like him?

WTF does that even mean? Do not try to troll in a language you do not even understand.


BTW. To make it simple, the truth is whatever Breynnel(sp) is denying.

 

[ShawnB]

Apologies; late to the party, but serious question to ChewbaccaD and others who continued an earlier line of inquiry:
In this exchange...

<snip>

Evidently, JV is responsible for the systematic USPS doping program...

...why is OG Hog not referring to Och? (not JV).

Does he not fit Hog's American team manager requirement, and also provide a seriously corrupt central figure who could be exposed in a throughgoing way leading back many decades?

Would it not in fact likely be true that all roads (in American cycling) legitimately lead back to Och -- via doping, all the central money men, USAC administrators, the doping of juniors in the 80's and 90's -- all the way back to the '84 Olympics?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something -- just seemed like reflexively assigning his pointed finger to JV was focusing on today's players and thus possibly barking up the wrong tree. Hog is a 90's-early 2000's dope fiend. Not to mention that he (perhaps purposely) didn't address Race Radio's implicit assumption, but talked around it -- which leaves the door open in my mind that he has a bigger house to burn down than JV's...if someone don't er..get to convincing him otherwise, $$ee..

Thanks for any clarifications on this, or other thoughts.
Cheers,
-Shawn

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Apologies; late to the party, but serious question to ChewbaccaD and others who continued an earlier line of inquiry:
In this exchange...



...why is OG Hog not referring to Och? (not JV).

Does he not fit Hog's American team manager requirement, and also provide a seriously corrupt central figure who could be exposed in a throughgoing way leading back many decades?

Would it not in fact likely be true that all roads (in American cycling) legitimately lead back to Och -- via doping, all the central money men, USAC administrators, the doping of juniors in the 80's and 90's -- all the way back to the '84 Olympics?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something -- just seemed like reflexively assigning his pointed finger to JV was focusing on today's players and thus possibly barking up the wrong tree. Hog is a 90's-early 2000's dope fiend. Not to mention that he (perhaps purposely) didn't address Race Radio's implicit assumption, but talked around it -- which leaves the door open in my mind that he has a bigger house to burn down than JV's...if someone don't er..get to convincing him otherwise, $$ee..

Thanks for any clarifications on this, or other thoughts.
Cheers,
-Shawn

Actually, I think your assessment might be spot on...and I don't think anyone would shed a tear if JB took down Och...but JB pretending that he was just some innocent by-stander is just more of his idiotic trolling. I think BPC is JB.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Actually, I think your assessment might be spot on...and I don't think anyone would shed a tear if JB took down Och...but JB pretending that he was just some innocent by-stander is just more of his idiotic trolling.

Och at least getting a lifetime ban would be a good step forward. The details of the story need to be well covered. A swift ban doesn't do enough. Too many years of cheating going waaaaaaayyyyyy back to his racing days.
http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/dopestrong.htm

I was able to calibrate Jim's integrity when I first met him at the 1978 Red Zinger Stage Race where he was competing and I served as chief timer. In the race on July 11 from Aspen to Vail, Colorado, Jim came off the back of the peloton and was not seen again until he finished third, well ahead of the peloton.

This one is cool, but a little complicated. It is why the money is good inside an IOC federation:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2004...es-ochowicz-in-conflict-of-interest-case_7182


Keep fighting JB!!! Don't quit without taking the *real* dopers down! Some of us right thinking fellows know you are just an innocent victim....

 

[Oldman]

Apologies; late to the party, but serious question to ChewbaccaD and others who continued an earlier line of inquiry:
In this exchange...



...why is OG Hog not referring to Och? (not JV).

Does he not fit Hog's American team manager requirement, and also provide a seriously corrupt central figure who could be exposed in a throughgoing way leading back many decades?

Would it not in fact likely be true that all roads (in American cycling) legitimately lead back to Och -- via doping, all the central money men, USAC administrators, the doping of juniors in the 80's and 90's -- all the way back to the '84 Olympics?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something -- just seemed like reflexively assigning his pointed finger to JV was focusing on today's players and thus possibly barking up the wrong tree. Hog is a 90's-early 2000's dope fiend. Not to mention that he (perhaps purposely) didn't address Race Radio's implicit assumption, but talked around it -- which leaves the door open in my mind that he has a bigger house to burn down than JV's...if someone don't er..get to convincing him otherwise, $$ee..

Thanks for any clarifications on this, or other thoughts.
Cheers,
-Shawn

My point earlier. His only reason to appeal is to sell his non-testimony in one last extortion round. There will be some "I don't recall" moments and who those moments give comfort to will be the payees.

 

[ShawnB]

RE: Dirtyworks' quote on Och's integrity (lack of) via L.Earnest...

Sure. And of course there's the Swart testimony we all know -- his statements under oath that Och was running a team-directed medical/PED/doping program and introducing his riders to EPO when he was managing Motorola in the early 90's. ...when of course a certain young rider by the name of Mister Lahnce Ahmstrong had joined that very select group.

So having hooked up w/ COTHO directly after Motorola and the two of them surely having used the Och-facilitated doping plans to springboard off of in their next, uh..stab..at the process together, this is how Hog plans to spin it: He didn't dope Armstrong first, and Och was grandfather of all modern doping in the U.S.

Fits too Hog's pattern of deflection of blame, minimizing his own sins, and practicing mindful self-forgiveness.
Lance did the thing you're upset about with someone else first guys; I only inherited the problem...and tried what I could to be low-key and conservative about it and with the other men in my care (I could not stop them). I could only manage the situation, yet despite my efforts, we inadvertently won 13 GT's, merely as a result of the obstinacy of competitive young men, and the heartbreaking need to keep up with the Joneses conspiring against us in a beautiful sport they were forcing to be dirty.


So if indeed the motives above all fit better than a relatively pointless fingering of JV (what hard evidence is he going to have on JV-complicity post-06? Hmm.), then I suspect Johan has not gotten what he wants from the Weasel, Fraysee, Plant, Och, circle -- and plans to drop a dime on Och.
Else why would he be dropping his hint so publicly?

They have been warned: Last chance I think.


EDIT to add: Agree w/ Oldman's subtle take on it that appeared above while I was posting. It's going to be cute, that deposition.

 

[thehog]

My point earlier. His only reason to appeal is to sell his non-testimony in one last extortion round. There will be some "I don't recall" moments and who those moments give comfort to will be the payees.

I'm most uncomfortable with the view that Bruyneel shouldn't appear at the hearing.

He has the right to be heard, innocent or guilty.

Due process should play out.

 

[sniper]

I'm most uncomfortable with the view that Bruyneel shouldn't appear at the hearing.

He has the right to be heard, innocent or guilty.

Due process should play out.

bruyneel has a lot to tell.
recall it was probably bruyneel who threw contador under the bus with that anonymized HUMO interview, so he's well-versed in the area of bean spilling.

 

[ChrisE]

RE: Dirtyworks' quote on Och's integrity (lack of) via L.Earnest...

Sure. And of course there's the Swart testimony we all know -- his statements under oath that Och was running a team-directed medical/PED/doping program and introducing his riders to EPO when he was managing Motorola in 1995. ....

FTFY. You're welcome.

 

[Berzin]

bruyneel has a lot to tell.
recall it was probably bruyneel who threw contador under the bus with that anonymized HUMO interview, so he's well-versed in the area of bean spilling.

That HUMO article died the death it deserved.

Nothing came of it because no one stepped forward.

Bruyneel's goose is cooked because his main rider admitted to doping. No way he can go into the arbitration hearing stating he knew nothing of it when his main cash cow was seeing Ferrari and handing out doping products to other riders while he, the team director, remained completely in the dark.

As for Bruyneel having any information on any other riders and/or team directors, it's all too little too late. The impending arbitration is about what HE was complicit in, and he either has to defend himself or stand down.

If Bruyneel says he's done with cycling then good, because cycling is done with him. And good riddance to one of the most amoral and corrupt riders/director sportifs that ever lived. What a putrid legacy to leave behind.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

What about Bruyneel's classic,

We Might As Well Win: On the Road to Success with the Mastermind Behind Eight Tour de France Victories

I saw it at the 99-Cent Store.

They're clearing those out to make room for the updated non-fiction version.

 

[sniper]

That HUMO article died the death it deserved.

Nothing came of it because no one stepped forward.

Bruyneel's goose is cooked because his main rider admitted to doping. No way he can go into the arbitration hearing stating he knew nothing of it when his main cash cow was seeing Ferrari and handing out doping products to other riders while he, the team director, remained completely in the dark.

As for Bruyneel having any information on any other riders and/or team directors, it's all too little too late. The impending arbitration is about what HE was complicit in, and he either has to defend himself or stand down.

If Bruyneel says he's done with cycling then good, because cycling is done with him. And good riddance to one of the most amoral and corrupt riders/director sportifs that ever lived. What a putrid legacy to leave behind.

his humo interview (although anonymous) as well as some of his tweets taken together suggest he's willing to smear people, which might be amoral but that's exactly what we want, innit
if he's gonna write a book (i heard he's planning one), it might actually be revealing.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

hif he's gonna write a book (i heard he's planning one), it might actually be revealing.

Here's an advance copy.

 

[onceuponatime]

Time, venue and access for Bruyneel arbitration?

If the arbitration hearings in London really are going ahead this month, then shouldn't there be details by now on where, when and access? Will they be live-streamed, or just a press / public box? Would love to pop in on lunch breaks...

 

[42x16ss]

his humo interview (although anonymous) as well as some of his tweets taken together suggest he's willing to smear people, which might be amoral but that's exactly what we want, innit
if he's gonna write a book (i heard he's planning one), it might actually be revealing.

I think this is how he's going about it

 

[Morbius]

If the arbitration hearings in London really are going ahead this month, then shouldn't there be details by now on where, when and access? Will they be live-streamed, or just a press / public box? Would love to pop in on lunch breaks...

Bumping this question again. There's been remarkably little news about this considering it is supposed to start tomorrow. Velonews say they have heard nothing, and there is no information on the USADA site.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...neel-case-ahead-of-arbitration-hearing_310990

 

[neineinei]

Bumping this question again. There's been remarkably little news about this considering it is supposed to start tomorrow. Velonews say they have heard nothing, and there is no information on the USADA site.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...neel-case-ahead-of-arbitration-hearing_310990

Race Radio tweeted December 10 that the hearing wouldn't be open. https://twitter.com/TheRaceRadio/status/410629043231285248

Presumably Bruyneel, Celaya and/or Marti has asked for it to not be public.

 

[Oldman]

Bumping this question again. There's been remarkably little news about this considering it is supposed to start tomorrow. Velonews say they have heard nothing, and there is no information on the USADA site.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...neel-case-ahead-of-arbitration-hearing_310990

Considering Armstrong has now thrown Weisel into the limelight on a bigger dollar matter it seems plausible that USADA would consider any information Bruyneel could contribute as valuable.
Bruyneel is still shopping his testimony and, if he doesn't suggest Weisel knows anything we'll know where his retirement nest egg comes from. My guess is he'll clam up, lay it on Armstrong and take his lifetime ban.
That Cayman account will pay for froofy drinks and bad fashion choices for a few years....

 

[Benotti69]

Considering Armstrong has now thrown Weisel into the limelight on a bigger dollar matter it seems plausible that USADA would consider any information Bruyneel could contribute as valuable.
Bruyneel is still shopping his testimony and, if he doesn't suggest Weisel knows anything we'll know where his retirement nest egg comes from. My guess is he'll clam up, lay it on Armstrong and take his lifetime ban.
That Cayman account will pay for froofy drinks and bad fashion choices for a few years....

I did get the impression that Bruyneel was 'selling' his silence to Weisel, Stapleton and knaggs.

Isn't Bruyneel part of the Qui Tam case as a tailwind owner?

 

[blackcat]

Considering Armstrong has now thrown Weisel into the limelight on a bigger dollar matter it seems plausible that USADA would consider any information Bruyneel could contribute as valuable.
Bruyneel is still shopping his testimony and, if he doesn't suggest Weisel knows anything we'll know where his retirement nest egg comes from. My guess is he'll clam up, lay it on Armstrong and take his lifetime ban.
That Cayman account will pay for froofy drinks and bad fashion choices for a few years....

bad or good strippers as wives choices too? which of that dichotomy? dont conflate Yellow Rose please. They are high class there
Johan's entry into the Eurovision music awards. not to be confused with Eurotrash. Well, eh, confuse away

but i am just throwing this out there, was this the reason the Spanish real-estate bubble burst?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I thought wearing a white suit barefoot was a crime.

Ave Maria...

 

[D-Queued]

Cheeze is not restricted to Vegas.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

Cheeze is not restricted to Vegas.

Dave.

what happens in Vegas, nee Ibeza
stays in Ibeza

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Enough of that line of discussion.

Susan