Usain Bolt/Carl Lewis

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Not if he is promoting Carl Lewis it doesn't!

When Carl Lewis opens his mouth he is talking about how he did it clean and he was the fastest etc....

Even after FoxyBrowns post does not exclude that Lewis might have started doping even younger, remember Armstrong was supposed to be on roids at 16 winning triathlons against adults.

Lewis aint so big calling out Bolt. The rest of the world is blind and stupid. Olympic field athletics is dirtier than cycling. It has to be to keep breaking records that the Olympics absolutely loves.

Sure, Lewis might have doped even before Ben Johnson (being at the same age as Lewis, his PB was 10.40, when Lewis already was world champ in 1983 & below 10 runner), coming out of nowhere in 1985, forced him to the edge. I am not naive to not consider this. But remember: There was no money for big programs in 1981. Hell, it wasn´t even professional. Still he managed to run a 10.00 at age 20. No comparison to Armstrong or the high tech dope of nowadays.

 

[Benotti69]

Sure, Lewis might have doped even before Ben Johnson (being at the same age as Lewis, his PB was 10.40, when Lewis already was world champ in 1983 & below 10 runner), coming out of nowhere in 1985, forced him to the edge. I am not naive to not consider this. But remember: There was no money for big programs in 1981. Hell, it wasn´t even professional. Still he managed to run a 10.00 at age 20. No comparison to Armstrong or the high tech dope of nowadays.

Lots dope, win Olympic golds in sports that barely get their faces on the screen for a few minutes every 4 years and it doesn't stop them.

Doping to win is not always about money.

Lewis was always about Lewis and the type of personality i read of him wouldn't surprise me if he was a young doper.

Yeah fair dues to calling out the Jamaicans, but as I said only the blind cant see their doped.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

only thing that gives bolt credit to me are his results at young age

200m - 19.93, 400m - 45.35 at 17yrs old

Talent, no question. But keep in mind Lewis was running 9.3 (100 yds = approx. 10.1 in 100 meters) at age 17 twice. No question here, same league as Bolt.

So still, there is no explanation why Bolt improved by 0.3/0.6 seconds in one year when being beyond age 20, while Lewis, Smith and other sprinters pre Ben-Johnson couldn´t even shave more than 0.1 seconds of their PB during long careers.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

only thing that gives bolt credit to me are his results at young age

200m - 19.93, 400m - 45.35 at 17yrs old

The major problem with Bolt is his big leap in performance that coincided with Jamaica becoming the dominant sprint nation. That reeks of team wide systematic doping.

And you have Conte claiming rumours of Jamaica going full BALCO program in the off-season before that breakthrough.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Lots dope, win Olympic golds in sports that barely get their faces on the screen for a few minutes every 4 years and it doesn't stop them.

Doping to win is not always about money.

Lewis was always about Lewis and the type of personality i read of him wouldn't surprise me if he was a young doper.

Yeah fair dues to calling out the Jamaicans, but as I said only the blind cant see their doped.

Yeah, i know he had his problems in USA. A deep contrast to europe. He was loved from the 1st day on here. I don´t know why. Europe is just different to USA, knows more (back then) about athletics, while USA was the big leagues only.
Anyway, i think you agree here: No money = no big scientic dope program = no big performance jumps out of the blue. Hell, even the top pro cyclists still were doing it amateurish back in 1983 (Peter Winnen´s book just comes to mind).

 

[D-Queued]

only thing that gives bolt credit to me are his results at young age

200m - 19.93, 400m - 45.35 at 17yrs old

Right with you.

Everyone knows that Jamaicans forbid doping for anyone under 18.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah, i know he had his problems in USA. A deep contrast to europe. He was loved from the 1st day on here. I don´t know why. Europe is just different to USA, knows more (back then) about athletics, while USA was the big leagues only.
Anyway, i think you agree here: No money = no big scientic dope program = no big performance jumps out of the blue. Hell, even the top pro cyclists still were doing it amateurish back in 1983 (Peter Winnen´s book just comes to mind).

Lewis is quite intelligent which is suppressed in interviews due to his ego, but he could've foreseen that when one takes something that makes you way better it will look suspicious so increase it at a pace that looks natural.

Enough of Lewis for me.

How many others will be training in Jamaica soon? TeamSky?

 

[TheInternet]

So still, there is no explanation why Bolt improved by 0.3/0.6 seconds in one year when being beyond age 20, while Lewis, Smith and other sprinters pre Ben-Johnson couldn´t even shave more than 0.1 seconds of their PB during long careers.

Except Jim Hines, who shaved his 100m PB by .23 seconds between 1967 and 1968.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The major problem with Bolt is his big leap in performance that coincided with Jamaica becoming the dominant sprint nation. That reeks of team wide systematic doping.

And you have Conte claiming rumours of Jamaica going full BALCO program in the off-season before that breakthrough.

Yes too much coincidences here:
1.) Back in the 80s the athlets with talent were going to USA or europe b/c of better infrastructure (coaching, facilities, universties, etc.). Now, when their domination started, all of a sudden they prefer to stay home.
2.) No NADA in jamaica until at least 2008. After that, still corruption and conflict of interest occur.
3.) Performance jumps by many athlets from the same group as never seen before.
4.) Small "poor" country out duels traditional weahlty country. Hell, a small training group out duels the biggest talent pool country in the world (every year thousands of high talented high skilled WR´s come out of high school to fight for 1 NFL career, the rest is ripe for an athletic career).
5.) If the athlets get tested positive for dope that can be detected, god knows what they take in preparation for which there is no test.

 

[TheInternet]

Hell, a small training group out duels the biggest talent pool country in the world.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Lewis is quite intelligent which is suppressed in interviews due to his ego, but he could've foreseen that when one takes something that makes you way better it will look suspicious so increase it at a pace that looks natural.

Enough of Lewis for me.

How many others will be training in Jamaica soon? TeamSky?

Not quiet. Actually he did not increase by more than a blink of an eye once grown up. He did a ton of interviews here in europe. Hell he was angry about Ben Johnson. He wouldn´t care less of big performance jumps if he only could beat Johnson (of which he didn´t after 1985 except once). So either he was a bad responder to steroids (of which i doubt, since his physics didn´t change trou the years) or just clean(ish). Or he experimented with them and did a Zabel a la "well, didn´t work, so i leave it".

Team Sky? Yeah, might be an improvement over Teneriffa. Going 1-2-3 next years TdF.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Except Jim Hines, who shaved his 100m PB by .23 seconds between 1967 and 1968.

Jim Hines 1967: 10.0 seconds
Jim Hines 1968: 9.9 seconds (9.95 electronic)

Electronic time was not common until the late 70s. That´s where the difference comes from...

 

[D-Queued]

Hell, a small training group out duels the biggest talent pool country in the world

Quoted for emphasis.

Sure. But that small group is just way more talented. There has been more genetic change in the last ten years in Jamaica than in the rest of the human population.

Dave.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Sure. But that small group is just way more talented. There has been more genetic change in the last ten years in Jamaica than in the rest of the human population.

Dave.

Yeah, how could i have missed that. Such things happen more often than all of us think. US-Postal-Land or Sky-Land come to mind.

 

[TheInternet]

Jim Hines 1967: 10.0 seconds
Jim Hines 1968: 9.9 seconds (9.95 electronic)

Electronic time was not common until the late 70s. That´s where the difference comes from...

His 1967 performance of 10.17 was automatically timed, as was his 9.95 performance in Mexico. It represents a substantial improvement in 100m performance, even by today's standards.

 

[roundabout]

His 1967 performance of 10.17 was automatically timed, as was his 9.95 performance in Mexico. It represents a substantial improvement in 100m performance, even by today's standards.

Altitude?

There were plenty of amazing (for that time) performances that year.

 

[TheInternet]

Altitude?

There were plenty of amazing (for that time) performances that year.

Certainly a possibility, but there is one common denominator to the majority of sprint performances...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

His 1967 performance of 10.17 was automatically timed, as was his 9.95 performance in Mexico. It represents a substantial improvement in 100m performance, even by today's standards.

I can´t control if the 10.0 was the same race as the 10.17. I highly doubt it. And even if; in 1967 Hines did a 9.1 in the 100 yards, equal to a 9.9 for a full 100 meter dash. No performance jumps between 67 & 68...

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Sure. But that small group is just way more talented. There has been more genetic change in the last ten years in Jamaica than in the rest of the human population.

Dave.

I believe the spin nowadays is [according the BBC] the Jamaican runners are from the elite slaves that came from the first ships out of Africa...

Bolt/Lewis? I know what is more believable. Cough medicine or not. At least Lewis wasn't a freak like we are seeing the last 20 years in the 100 metres. Bolt being the boldest of course. Didn't trust that Johnson 200 in Atlanta, bettering that is another ballgame.

Go Jamaica!!!

Really, a 1 2 3 in the 200's, laughing my *** of.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I believe the spin nowadays is [according the BBC] the Jamaican runners are from the elite slaves that came from the first ships out of Africa...

Bolt/Lewis? I know what is more believable. Cough medicine or not. At least Lewis wasn't a freak like we are seeing the last 20 years in the 100 metres. Bolt being the boldest of course. Didn't trust that Johnson 200 in Atlanta, bettering that is another ballgame.

Go Jamaica!!!

Really, a 1 2 3 in the 200's, laughing my *** of.

Good post. You said in one sentence what i tried to do in 200 or so posts (this thread + the dope olympics thread)...

 

[TheInternet]

I can´t control if...

Why do you take this personal? The only apples-to-apples comparison across the two years were those automatically-timed results. Had the Soviet Union outpaced the US by 26 medals, maybe we'd be discussing these results differently?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Why should i take it personally? It´s not Hines, Smith or Lewis posting here. It´s just annoying that you put up intentionally (wrong) numbers to leave the impression to the neutral reader that Bolt´s performance jumps are nothing odd. But they are. So much so that they cry out heavy doping.

 

[goggalor]

Now let's see if Lewis has the balls to publicly question that insane 4x100 m relay WR the US women ran tonight. Given the history of the old record, it's obvious what they're up to. Somehow I doubt he'll say anything, people tend to have a much harder time criticising their own countrywomen. Just look at John Leonard.

 

[TheInternet]

Why should i take it personally? It&#180]

What's interesting is that when presented information with no hint of bias one way or the other, you haven't a clue whether that information supports your own position or not.

Go back to your claim that such jumps in performance were not seen prior to Lewis and Johnson; look at Hines' increase in performance objectively (don't extrapolate 100yd performance; don't compare hand timing to auto timing; just compare auto-timing to auto-timing, because those are the only data that can be compared without bias); and, consider that increase in performance in the context of other US sprinters' performances, and our domination over the Soviets in the Olympics that year, and particularly that year. I would think you'd find more support for your argument...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Now let's see if Lewis has the balls to publicly question that insane 4x100 m relay WR the US women ran tonight. Given the history of the old record, it's obvious what they're up to. Somehow I doubt he'll say anything, people tend to have a much harder time criticising their own countrywomen. Just look at John Leonard.

Of course he will not. You wouldn´t, i wouldn´t. Unless he´s on a suicide attack...

Still, he´s right & the only one to have the guts. I mean if Bolt is that clean.... ahh leave it.

...

No you can´t compare electronic timing in the 60s when only two races in 24 months were done so. Imagine he did the only electronic timed race in 1967 injured, and the one in 1968 at full strength. You´d see crazy performance jumps. You know that. So stop it here. I am tired of your games. You are wrong.