USAPCC Stage 3: Vail ITT 16.1km (25/8/2011)

[patrick767]

Yeah all hail the americans, kings of the 4% climbs...

If it's so easy, then why are some of cycling's best having trouble keeping up? I wanted a harder course too. I wanted a true MTF. I think the organizers wasted opportunities to have a truly epic stage or two.

Nevertheless, it's clear that the high altitude is having an impact and those that are more accustomed to it are performing. Little things like living at altitude in Colorado help.

 

[theyoungest]

funny that the low-landers usually ignore this aspect when belittling this race...

Well, I gotta say that the effect this was supposed to have is kind of disappointing... apart from the fact that maybe they ride a little slower and are more afraid of attacking and blowing up.

The only "star" who really can't handle it seems to be Andy Schleck... quelle surprise.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

In a related note, given that the organizers did put in the hardpack of Cottonwood Pass, if this race is successful I'm sure we will see other less traditional routes. There are plenty of dirt roads to the top of summer-time lift accessed ski stations - you know, like this one:

That is doing it backwards. Most people would make a good route in order to make the race successful, not wait until the race was successful before making a good route.

 

[Deagol]

funny that the low-landers usually ignore this aspect when belittling this race...
...

I've got to say, the look on some of the riders faces on Stage 2 was pretty grimm. And also, suprising I guess, some of the Gobernacion guys were actualy quite far off the back and looked to be hurting.

Regarding the road pitches: imagine Independence Pass or any other local one with a steep grade, what a death-trap that road would be when icy. Not to mention, even automobiles have a hard time if you had BOTH steep grade and altitude. Considering how much semi-traffic we have on the roads in this country, not a wise choice.

This is not to say I think we should fall into the trap of trying to compare these races to Euro races. We should enjoy them for what they are. It's like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

No one's denying that 10% gradient roads in icy conditions are stupid.

But to try and pretend that 4% climbs make for good racing takes about 15 rather stupid leaps of logic.

 

[hfer07]

what time the so called "broadcasting" starts -i'm on eastern time

 

[Deagol]

Well, I gotta say that the effect this was supposed to have is kind of disappointing... apart from the fact that maybe they ride a little slower and are more afraid of attacking and blowing up.

The only "star" who really can't handle it seems to be Andy Schleck... quelle surprise.

A few things: If they really wanted that effect, they probably would have had more MTFs since that would cause the stages to be ridden differently. No one seems to take the KOM competition anywhere near as seriously as the overall. The efffect they really seem to be after is to bring in $$$ to the stage host towns, course design being secondary (which sucks for us fans, but is better for the local merchant).

If Independence was a MTF, we would have seen different dynamics, if it was ridden from the other side, we would have seen a heck of a lot more seperation.... but the Town of Aspen would not have liked that.

I guess it comes down to this: the towns, people, and organizations behind this race have more input into the course design than fans watching on TV or the internet.

 

[Lanark]

If it's so easy, then why are some of cycling's best having trouble keeping up? I wanted a harder course too. I wanted a true MTF. I think the organizers wasted opportunities to have a truly epic stage or two.

Nevertheless, it's clear that the high altitude is having an impact and those that are more accustomed to it are performing. Little things like living at altitude in Colorado help.

Because for most non-Americans this is either an obligation to their sponsor that wants them to start in the US, or it's that they're just using this race to prepare for goals later this season (Italian classics).

I've got to say, the look on some of the riders faces on Stage 2 was pretty grimm. And also, suprising I guess, some of the Gobernacion guys were actualy quite far off the back and looked to be hurting.

Regarding the road pitches: imagine Independence Pass or any other local one with a steep grade, what a death-trap that road would be when icy. Not to mention, even automobiles have a hard time if you had BOTH steep grade and altitude. Considering how much semi-traffic we have on the roads in this country, not a wise choice.

This is not to say I think we should fall into the trap of trying to compare these races to Euro races. We should enjoy them for what they are. It's like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

Boring? I don't see how comparing Euro races to American races is like comparing apples to oranges. People are just calling a spade a spade. This is a pretty boring race, with a boring course.

 

[just some guy]

Velo boys are talking live

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I've got to say, the look on some of the riders faces on Stage 2 was pretty grimm. And also, suprising I guess, some of the Gobernacion guys were actualy quite far off the back and looked to be hurting.

That may have been the look of boredom.

This is not to say I think we should fall into the trap of trying to compare these races to Euro races. We should enjoy them for what they are. It's like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

The Tour of Utah did not have a problem fashioning a great course, and Utah has a lot less road options than Colorado.

 

[benpounder]

Well, I gotta say that the effect this was supposed to have is kind of disappointing... apart from the fact that maybe they ride a little slower and are more afraid of attacking and blowing up.

The only "star" who really can't handle it seems to be Andy Schleck... quelle surprise.

I've said it a number of times, and I will say it again. Unless you have experienced going into oxygen debt at altitude, you have no idea how long it takes to recover. It is essentially going anaerobic with out doing anything. When you feel it coming on, you dial back to a less threatening aerobic level of riding, and it is a whole lot slower.

Decades ago, when I lived in Durango I was invited by several friends to do the Durango-Silverton-Durango century. Two of these guys were Cat 1/2's. And while I was one of the stronger Mtn bikers in town, I made the mistake of trying to follow up and over Coal Bank Pass (10640 ft./3243 m.). For the last two miles it was all I could do to pinball the rest of the way up. Not a bonk because with their encouragement (and indulgence), I finished the century (over Molas to Silverton, and back over Molas and Coal Bank).

Redlining on a mountain bike at altitude is much more stark (and yes, I've done this a number of times primarily due to the fact that to clean a particular section, you have to go anaerobic. The bottom line is that you really have to mete out your efforts wisely. As someone mentioned upthread, will be no hiding today - we will know who went out too quickly - and there will be some large time gaps.

 

[Deagol]

Because for most non-Americans this is either an obligation to their sponsor that wants them to start in the US, or it's that they're just using this race to prepare for goals later this season (Italian classics).

Boring? I don't see how comparing Euro races to American races is like comparing apples to oranges. People are just calling a spade a spade. This is a pretty boring race, with a boring course.

Funny thing is, many on this forum called the TDF this year boring. Heck, the Giro had the hardest route in a long time and they called that boring, too (due to AC's domination)


Some people are just never happy. But, whatever. No body is forcing anybody to watch this race.... feel free to focus on the Vuelta.

 

[benpounder]

3 minutes to the first rider, Kai Applequist of Team Energy's start. He will need it.

 

[benpounder]

This is not to say I think we should fall into the trap of trying to compare these races to Euro races. We should enjoy them for what they are. It's like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

Excellent point, I hope our friends across the oceans will take the converse as well...

 

[benpounder]

Coverage up!

Click on my signature for it...

 

[benpounder]

Funny thing is, many on this forum called the TDF this year boring. Heck, the Giro had the hardest route in a long time and they called that boring, too (due to AC's domination)


Some people are just never happy. But, whatever. No body is forcing anybody to watch this race.... feel free to focus on the Vuelta.

It is as if some think the world of road cycling is a zero-sum game. In order for their favorite race to be really great, some other race must necessarily really suck.

Then again, there are a few jac__sses here that just want to cause a scene.

 

[this_is_edie]

I do wish commentators didn't feel the need to fill every second with words.

 

[benpounder]

I do wish commentators didn't feel the need to fill every second with words.

That is why they are called commentators, and not commentors.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

It is as if some think the world of road cycling is a zero-sum game. In order for their favorite race to be really great, some other race must necessarily really suck.

Then again, there are a few jac__sses here that just want to cause a scene.

Zoiks! As if ACF94 was not bad enough, we now have CCF94, Colorado Cycling Fan, who takes offense at any bit of unpleasant truth about "his" race.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Zoiks! As if ACF94 was not bad enough, we now have CCF94, Colorado Cycling Fan, who takes offense at any bit of unpleasant truth about "his" race.

Bizzare isn't it.

Admitting that this race has been really dull is not about bigging up other races.

I don't think I've ever seen Eurosport commentators apologise for the tedium of what we're watching so much.

It's not an insult to your no doubt lovely part of the world - the race director made a dull route - don't take the truth so personally.

 

[thirteen]

I've said it a number of times, and I will say it again. Unless you have experienced going into oxygen debt at altitude, you have no idea how long it takes to recover. It is essentially going anaerobic with out doing anything. When you feel it coming on, you dial back to a less threatening aerobic level of riding, and it is a whole lot slower.

you can say this till you're blue in the face and they're still not going to get it, unfortunately. i think, maybe, you have to have experienced it to know how truly devastating it can be.

some of the riders may have underestimated this as well... intellectualizing and the actuality are two completely different things.

(i am now drooling for a crêpe from the crêpe wagon at the bottom of the mountain that probably no longer exists... drool... and, as always, it amazes me how mellow this road looks in the summer.)

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

you can say this till you're blue in the face and they're still not going to get it, unfortunately. i think, maybe, you have to have experienced it to know how truly devastating it can be.

some of the riders may have underestimated this as well... intellectualizing and the actuality are two completely different things.

(i am now drooling for a crêpe from the crêpe wagon at the bottom of the mountain that probably no longer exists... drool... and, as always, it amazes me how mellow this road looks in the summer.)

If your argument is that racing at altitude is so fundamentally difficult that the racing will always be turgid then -

a) They might as well give up now with this race, because if it's this dull next year it will be a laughing stock.

b) the Vuelta a Colombia seems to beg to differ.



No one cares about how difficult it is. They care about time gaps and genuine racing, rather than the entire thing riding on a TT.

 

[Descender]

The altitude effect is overrated, a 4% climb offers lots of slipstream at sea level as well as on altitude.

I have to agree with those who say this course is not that great and it´s too soft, but I do like the concept of having mountain stage finish after a descent. I hope the organisers learn from their mistakes and next year we see a better, more challenging course.

 

[Deagol]

Bizzare isn't it.

Admitting that this race has been really dull is not about bigging up other races.

I don't think I've ever seen Eurosport commentators apologise for the tedium of what we're watching so much.

It's not an insult to your no doubt lovely part of the world - the race director made a dull route - don't take the truth so personally.

Sounds like you guys need to start your own complaint thread. Again, if it is so boring, why not focus on another race?

I don't think anyone is taking your complaints personally, as we were not involved in planning this route. We have said time and time again that this is not the route we would have chosen, if it were up to us. However, we are glad the race is happeneing and don't feel the need dwell on the fact that the course isn't as good as what you (or even we) think it should be.

Simple enough....
Isn't there a Vuelta stage today? Seriously ???

 

[roundabout]

Altitude is good. Without it there would have been more people finishing together yesterday.

As such the course is a bit too much in favour of strong time trialists that can climb and the purer climbers don't really have a chance to gain time back. That's about the biggest problem I have with this course.

Edit: and I guess having the GC pretty much settled on day 4 with 3 stages to go but that can be down to geography.