Valverde 2012?

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
Libertine Seguros said:
ACF's just scared because he remembers many years of poor Evans scrambling for a new excuse for being beaten by Valverde yet again.

I remember somebody posting something about great photos, and ACF posted a picture of the Valverde-Sánchez-Sagan-Evans break, with Valverde placed first and Evans 2nd. I noted that it was nice to see Evans in his traditional place - behind Valverde. ACF went schiz.

Oh, good times, good times.
:mad: - Scrambling for a new excuse? Evans doesn't have to scramble for an excuse because he is better than Valverde.
nobilis said:
yeah, this is the only way you hope he gets beaten.
no I just think it would be funny to see the roles reversed. Alejandro 'Scum' Valverde started riding much harder after Cadel had that puncture. Shouldn't of not even been riding many of those events because of his crafty lawyers. I say he should be stripped of his Vuelta crown.
 
luckyboy said:
lol Valverde is a good climber with a kick and a good TT.

He was the best all-rounder, but he's not the Merckx of our time. He's only a GT winner because of a neutral service car.
Again, yet again, Evans did not lose the time he lost the GT by to that neutral service car. He chased back onto Samu's group, then was dropped by the Asturian. He lost the Vuelta by 1'32", but on that stage he lost 1'18" to Valverde, plus Valverde took 8" of bonuses. Evans took absolutely nothing out of Valverde in the first 2 ITTs and the first half of the final one; Valverde eased up a bit and played it safe on the way back into Toledo with the win secured, and Evans took about 20 seconds from him there.

That puncture was stupid and it held Evans up, but it didn't lose him the Vuelta. If you really want a scapegoat, blame David de la Fuente for sitting up and cruising to the line in Xorret del Catí - it meant Valverde was sprinting for 3rd instead of 4th and took the bonus seconds that got him the maillot oro. If Evans had still been in gold when the puncture occurred, he might not have acted so resignedly when things didn't go his way later on (he didn't so much as try to attack the gold jersey later on, despite never being more than 2 minutes back), and maybe the contenders might have thought twice about leaving him.
 
Aug 2, 2010
1,502
0
0
El Pistolero said:
Miguel Indurain broke the world hour record back when modern bikes were still allowed. ChrIs Boardman broke Big Mig's record with a modern bike as well. The UCI decided to make these records unofficial and everyone now has to use the same bike Merckx used. Chris Boardman broke Merckx his record finally with only a few meters better. So someone who beat Big Mig in the time trial could only barely beat the record of a guy who already won the Giro/Tour that season and before his big injury(Merckx had a very nasty crash in '69 and was never his former self again). Chris Boardman prepared his entire season for the Hour record. Merckx of course did not and already had a long season behind him.

Yeah, amateur huh ;)
again you are showing how obtuse a human being (?) can be.
merckx wasn't the amateur. 99,9999% of his opponents were.

what does hour record as to do about talent? showing that a modern rider that never trained in those bikes without being able to eat boxes of anphetamines plus alcohol and steroids until they can't sleep for days and almost ending dead on the road without interest in a "hype" event without valour does not want to try it?
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
Libertine Seguros said:
Again, yet again, Evans did not lose the time he lost the GT by to that neutral service car. He chased back onto Samu's group, then was dropped by the Asturian. He lost the Vuelta by 1'32", but on that stage he lost 1'18" to Valverde, plus Valverde took 8" of bonuses. Evans took absolutely nothing out of Valverde in the first 2 ITTs and the first half of the final one; Valverde eased up a bit and played it safe on the way back into Toledo with the win secured, and Evans took about 20 seconds from him there.

That puncture was stupid and it held Evans up, but it didn't lose him the Vuelta. If you really want a scapegoat, blame David de la Fuente for sitting up and cruising to the line in Xorret del Catí - it meant Valverde was sprinting for 3rd instead of 4th and took the bonus seconds that got him the maillot oro. If Evans had still been in gold when the puncture occurred, he might not have acted so resignedly when things didn't go his way later on (he didn't so much as try to attack the gold jersey later on, despite never being more than 2 minutes back), and maybe the contenders might have thought twice about leaving him.
It certainly did lose him the vuelta, I find it hard to believe that Cadel wasn't going to be able to hang onto the Valverde group all the way to Sierra Nevada. Anyway, Sierra Nevada is not a very steep climb which makes it difficult to get a gap. Just because he didn't take that much time out of Valverde in the TT doesn't mean he didn't have the ability to win the overall still. I also don't agree that Valverde played it safe on the way back. Evans is still much superior to Valverde in the TT and it was a course that suited Alejandro a fair bit. The fact that he only lost 36s to Millar in the Toledo TT and Gilbert was featuring in the tt says a lot about the course.

Anyway, the fact that Valverde was racing just shows how he didn't deserve to win the Vuelta that year.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
:mad: - Scrambling for a new excuse? Evans doesn't have to scramble for an excuse because he is better than Valverde.


no I just think it would be funny to see the roles reversed. Alejandro 'Scum' Valverde started riding much harder after Cadel had that puncture. Shouldn't of not even been riding many of those events because of his crafty lawyers. I say he should be stripped of his Vuelta crown.
Evans can point at his yellow jersey now, but for a number of years he did a very good job of coming second to Valverde over and over again. Evans has always been the better GT rider, though.

I don't recall Valverde riding any harder after the puncture actually. He didn't have to, he had the gold jersey. He only upped the pace once Gesink and then Mosquera attacked. Evans lost the race by 1'32", 1'26" of which was in that stage - but not all of that was lost in that puncture. He rejoined Samuel Sánchez's group, which at that time was 43" behind Valverde's group. So part of the loss was Evans' own doing.

Mind you, given that the stripping of Valverde's 2010 results was so nonsensical even CAS themselves made clear to point out they thought there was no reason to do it, taking away his Vuelta would be no more ridiculous. But just so you know, Samuel Sánchez was 2nd in that race, so Cadel still hasn't won a three week race.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
0
0
auscyclefan94 said:
It certainly did lose him the vuelta, I find it hard to believe that Cadel wasn't going to be able to hang onto the Valverde group all the way to Sierra Nevada. Anyway, Sierra Nevada is not a very steep climb which makes it difficult to get a gap. Just because he didn't take that much time out of Valverde in the TT doesn't mean he didn't have the ability to win the overall still. I also don't agree that Valverde played it safe on the way back. Evans is still much superior to Valverde in the TT and it was a course that suited Alejandro a fair bit. The fact that he only lost 36s to Millar in the Toledo TT and Gilbert was featuring in the tt says a lot about the course.

Anyway, the fact that Valverde was racing just shows how he didn't deserve to win the Vuelta that year.
Evans didn't wait up for Contador either when he had a flat tire at the first mountain stage of the Tour 2007.
 
Aug 2, 2010
1,502
0
0
auscyclefan94 said:
It certainly did lose him the vuelta, I find it hard to believe that Cadel wasn't going to be able to hang onto the Valverde group all the way to Sierra Nevada. Anyway, Sierra Nevada is not a very steep climb which makes it difficult to get a gap. Just because he didn't take that much time out of Valverde in the TT doesn't mean he didn't have the ability to win the overall still. I also don't agree that Valverde played it safe on the way back. Evans is still much superior to Valverde in the TT and it was a course that suited Alejandro a fair bit. The fact that he only lost 36s to Millar in the Toledo TT and Gilbert was featuring in the tt says a lot about the course.

Anyway, the fact that Valverde was racing just shows how he didn't deserve to win the Vuelta that year.
then...

why cadel deserves to win something? why should he race?
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
Libertine Seguros said:
Evans can point at his yellow jersey now, but for a number of years he did a very good job of coming second to Valverde over and over again. Evans has always been the better GT rider, though.

I don't recall Valverde riding any harder after the puncture actually. He didn't have to, he had the gold jersey. He only upped the pace once Gesink and then Mosquera attacked. Evans lost the race by 1'32", 1'26" of which was in that stage - but not all of that was lost in that puncture. He rejoined Samuel Sánchez's group, which at that time was 43" behind Valverde's group. So part of the loss was Evans' own doing.

Mind you, given that the stripping of Valverde's 2010 results was so nonsensical even CAS themselves made clear to point out they thought there was no reason to do it, taking away his Vuelta would be no more ridiculous. But just so you know, Samuel Sánchez was 2nd in that race, so Cadel still hasn't won a three week race.

Put it this way, would you agree that Evans would of been with all the favourites if he hadn't had the puncture on Sierra Nevada?

imo, yes. Therefore he would of not lost time to Sanchez who was dropped but he would of gained time on him. Without that puncture Sanchez would of not finished ahead of Evans. In saying that, I can not be definetly sure about that therefore imo Samuel Sanchez was the winner of the Vuelta a Espana.

Look at the Vuelta contenders in 2009

Valverde - shouldn't of been competing, didn't ride the tour.
Sanchez - didn't ride the tour.
Evans - rode the tour and a heavy race program all year.
Mosquera - didn't ride the tour
Gesink - had some bad luck during the Vuelta which possibly cost him a podium place.


Evans would of not gone into that GT overly fresh. If he did then he would of crushed the rest of that competition anyway.

Valverde's stripping of results was common sense. He shouldn't of been competing. He was later found to be guilty even though his legal team manipulated the system a fair bit. It is really that simple.
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
El Pistolero said:
Evans didn't wait up for Contador either when he had a flat tire at the first mountain stage of the Tour 2007.
I assume you are reffering to the stage to Tignes?

Did Evans once set the pace on that stage or send a team mate to the front? no. Contador punctured very late into the stage when the attacks were going, it is unreasonable to think that the riders would wait then.


c&cfan said:
then...

why cadel deserves to win something? why should he race?
Because he was not up on charges with CAS and I don't think you can really compare the suspicion around Valverde with Evans.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
0
0
auscyclefan94 said:
I assume you are reffering to the stage to Tignes?

Did Evans once set the pace on that stage or send a team mate to the front? no. Contador punctured very late into the stage when the attacks were going, it is unreasonable to think that the riders would wait then.




Because he was not up on charges with CAS and I don't think you can really compare the suspicion around Valverde with Evans.
Did anyone wait for Contador when he had a flat tire at Briancon at the Tour of 2007? Well they didn't because he was ahead of them all, and they only came back because of the flat. Shouldn't they have stopped as well?

Did Evans wait for Contador after he got stuck behind Frank Schlecks crash in the Tour of 2010? Or this year in the first stage?

The thing is, Contador wins races despite losing time because of mechanicals.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Put it this way, would you agree that Evans would of been with all the favourites if he hadn't had the puncture on Sierra Nevada?

imo, yes. Therefore he would of not lost time to Sanchez who was dropped but he would of gained time on him. Without that puncture Sanchez would of not finished ahead of Evans. In saying that, I can not be definetly sure about that therefore imo Samuel Sanchez was the winner of the Vuelta a Espana.

Look at the Vuelta contenders in 2009

Valverde - shouldn't of been competing, didn't ride the tour.
Sanchez - didn't ride the tour.
Evans - rode the tour and a heavy race program all year.
Mosquera - didn't ride the tour
Gesink - had some bad luck during the Vuelta which possibly cost him a podium place.


Evans would of not gone into that GT overly fresh. If he did then he would of crushed the rest of that competition anyway.

Valverde's stripping of results was common sense. He shouldn't of been competing. He was later found to be guilty even though his legal team manipulated the system a fair bit. It is really that simple.
Do you use the preposition "of" as a verb on purpose to annoy people or is it a genuine mistake? (sorry for commenting on grammar, but I mean, you did it 6 times in 1 post) :p
 
Aug 2, 2010
1,502
0
0
auscyclefan94 said:
I assume you are reffering to the stage to Tignes?

Did Evans once set the pace on that stage or send a team mate to the front? no. Contador punctured very late into the stage when the attacks were going, it is unreasonable to think that the riders would wait then.




Because he was not up on charges with CAS and I don't think you can really compare the suspicion around Valverde with Evans.
what you or I think isn't relevant. suspicion means 0.
there are some rules around here but those same rules support hypocrisy as yours and i don't like that.

Do you read and see everything and the big picture or do you just read and see what you want?

Valverde has a family, friends,life and behaves like a normal man in public and in private (as far as i know). he is a unique athlete that (as science proves) has to play with the same rules in order to be in the same "level".

As far as i know, evans is a very good athlete that does not behave like a normal man and can be stupid, uneducated and hypocrite as a huge number of situations have shown us.

again, by your unappropriated rules, why should evans be allowed to race? because he is better liar? because he pays more? what is the justification of your accusation?
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Put it this way, would you agree that Evans would of been with all the favourites if he hadn't had the puncture on Sierra Nevada?

imo, yes. Therefore he would of not lost time to Sanchez who was dropped but he would of gained time on him. Without that puncture Sanchez would of not finished ahead of Evans. In saying that, I can not be definetly sure about that therefore imo Samuel Sanchez was the winner of the Vuelta a Espana.
Did anybody wait for Samuel Sánchez when he crashed before Xorret del Catí? You know what? They didn't.

Even taking out that Sierra Nevada stage, Evans is 6" behind Valverde. Hence why I say you should blame de la Fuente for sitting up in the sprint at Xorret del Catí allowing Valverde to take those 8 bonus seconds more than Valverde. Valverde didn't accelerate after Evans was dropped - he didn't need to. The pace was already high because they'd dropped Sánchez and didn't want to let him back on. If Sánchez hadn't been dropped, maybe they wouldn't have been so callous when Evans had his puncture.

But either way - Samuel Sánchez finished just 20 seconds down on Valverde on that stage. Evans had been in Sánchez's group after the puncture. Yet Evans lost a further minute. Maybe Evans did his usual job of going too hard too long and blowing up, maybe Sánchez dosed his efforts better. But for better or worse, Sánchez actually halved his deficit to the leading quartet (Valverde, Gesink, Mosquera and Basso), whereas Evans' deficit doubled. It's like saying Chaingate won Contador the 2010 Tour because there was 39" between them on that stage - yes, but Schleck was only 17" down at the summit, he lost 22" by being a weaker descender than Contador. Similarly, Evans lost time to that mechanical, but was in a group 43" back shortly afterwards. But that doesn't account for the other 43" that he lost that day.

Look at the Vuelta contenders in 2009

Valverde - shouldn't of been competing, didn't ride the tour.
Sanchez - didn't ride the tour.
Evans - rode the tour and a heavy race program all year.
Mosquera - didn't ride the tour
Gesink - had some bad luck during the Vuelta which possibly cost him a podium place.


Evans would of not gone into that GT overly fresh. If he did then he would of crushed the rest of that competition anyway.

Valverde's stripping of results was common sense. He shouldn't of been competing. He was later found to be guilty even though his legal team manipulated the system a fair bit. It is really that simple.[/QUOTE]
 
May 23, 2010
292
0
0
El Pistolero said:
Did anyone wait for Contador when he had a flat tire at Briancon at the Tour of 2007? Well they didn't because he was ahead of them all, and they only came back because of the flat. Shouldn't they have stopped as well?

Did Evans wait for Contador after he got stuck behind Frank Schlecks crash in the Tour of 2010? Or this year in the first stage?

The thing is, Contador wins races despite losing time because of mechanicals.
So does Evans. Just did it in the 2011 Tour de France. The time he lost he made up before the end of the stage.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
0
0
Woody22 said:
So does Evans. Just did it in the 2011 Tour de France. The time he lost he made up before the end of the stage.
Evans had no mechanical or crash during this year's Tour.
 
May 23, 2010
292
0
0
c&cfan said:
what you or I think isn't relevant. suspicion means 0.
there are some rules around here but those same rules support hypocrisy as yours and i don't like that.

Do you read and see everything and the big picture or do you just read and see what you want?

Valverde has a family, friends,life and behaves like a normal man in public and in private (as far as i know). he is a unique athlete that (as science proves) has to play with the same rules in order to be in the same "level".

As far as i know, evans is a very good athlete that does not behave like a normal man and can be stupid, uneducated and hypocrite as a huge number of situations have shown us.

again, by your unappropriated rules, why should evans be allowed to race? because he is better liar? because he pays more? what is the justification of your accusation?
Wow. What an impressively idiotic post. And Valverde isn't even back racing yet.

Whatever you do, don't let reality get in the way of your posts will you.
 
May 23, 2010
292
0
0
El Pistolero said:
Evans had no mechanical or crash during this year's Tour.
I disagree. Stage 19 he had to change bikes on the first climb of the day and lost contact with Contador and Andy. But I know that all the Evans detractors don't accept that one.... he just cracked and was looking for an excuse wasn't he!! Amazing how well he recovered.

He certainly did have his fair share of luck in regards to not crashing though, and about time.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
0
0
Woody22 said:
I disagree. Stage 19 he had to change bikes on the first climb of the day and lost contact with Contador and Andy. But I know that all the Evans detractors don't accept that one.... he just cracked and was looking for an excuse wasn't he!! Amazing how well he recovered.

He certainly did have his fair share of luck in regards to not crashing though, and about time.
A mechanical with more than 90km to go is not the same. In the end, he was lucky to actually not have followed Contador there because it destroyed Andy and Voeckler. Andy made a big mistake there. Evans only followed when Andy reacted to Contador. Which was the correct thing to do.

Besides even if it was a mechanical, Contador distanced him and if Evans could really follow he would have gotten back on. Contador would have.

Contador may not have won the Tour this year, but he crowned the new king.
 
maltiv said:
Do you use the preposition "of" as a verb on purpose to annoy people or is it a genuine mistake? (sorry for commenting on grammar, but I mean, you did it 6 times in 1 post) :p
The guy is oblivious to people telling him about his *mistake*, in this case replacing *should have* for the phonetic form *should of*. The funny thing other people get contagious really quick and try to copy him :D
 
El Pistolero said:
A mechanical with more than 90km to go is not the same. In the end, he was lucky to actually not have followed Contador there because it destroyed Andy and Voeckler.
I agree he was lucky he had to close the gap by himself, and have Contador only get 26" advantage out of his useless attack. :rolleyes:
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
El Pistolero said:
A mechanical with more than 90km to go is not the same. In the end, he was lucky to actually not have followed Contador there because it destroyed Andy and Voeckler. Andy made a big mistake there. Evans only followed when Andy reacted to Contador. Which was the correct thing to do.

Besides even if it was a mechanical, Contador distanced him and if Evans could really follow he would have gotten back on. Contador would have.

Contador may not have won the Tour this year, but he crowned the new king.
- He got lucky that he had to chase downa 4minute gap into a headwind on the Galibier with no help
-He got lucky that he had a mechanical when Andy Schleck was going up the road
-He got lucky that he again had to chase down a 1.5 minute gap on the galibier for a 2nd day in a row.

:rolleyes:

AC would of not gotten back on. That's just bs. Evans had to get on and off his bike multiple times to either get it changed or fixed. He was also not feeling that great as the bike was rubbing against the tire.
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
maltiv said:
Do you use the preposition "of" as a verb on purpose to annoy people or is it a genuine mistake? (sorry for commenting on grammar, but I mean, you did it 6 times in 1 post) :p
cineteq said:
The guy is oblivious to people telling him about his *mistake*, in this case replacing *should have* for the phonetic form *should of*. The funny thing other people get contagious really quick and try to copy him :D
I should have put you on ignore many times before.

I hope you feel big about yourself that you can correct one's grammatical errors.:rolleyes:
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,657
1
0
42x16ss said:
When you do something wrong once - it's an error.

When you do the same thing wrong constantly - it's a choice.
No, it ain't a choice silly. My grammar just ain't that good. My written expression and grammar was never that grat in HS but I still did pretty well in English. I don't choose to make grammatical errors.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,463
0
0
auscyclefan94 said:
- He got lucky that he had to chase downa 4minute gap into a headwind on the Galibier with no help
-He got lucky that he had a mechanical when Andy Schleck was going up the road
-He got lucky that he again had to chase down a 1.5 minute gap on the galibier for a 2nd day in a row.

:rolleyes:

AC would of not gotten back on. That's just bs. Evans had to get on and off his bike multiple times to either get it changed or fixed. He was also not feeling that great as the bike was rubbing against the tire.
Contador practically soloed that stage and still finished third. Of course he would have gotten back on. Andy wasted way more energy on stage 18 and 19 than Cadel did. So yeah Cadel was lucky that Andy responded to Contador's suicide attack. The gap on stage 19 never got really big or dangerous considering the big valley between the Galibier and Alpe Dhuez.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS