Valverde 2012?

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Evans has finished 2nd in the TDF 2 times before however before winning. So you can't compare him to Pereiro. However Oscar did have to ride for Valverde in practically every TDF. And in 06 he did ride a smart race, somehow clinging on to guys like Menchov and Moreau most of the time. ( why didn't Valverde ride the TDF in 06??? ). Also the race would have been more exciting if Ulrich, Basso and Mancebo were there. Mayo disappointed as well.

Valverde i think will ride most of the Spanish races.
 
Jul 12, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
He won't be back to pace that quickly. History tells us that is is very unlikely that he will get back up to speed that quickly. Anyway, Evans, Phil and Greg will crush El Imbatido!!!
^This^, though I would love to see Vaverde, or anyone stress Phil out.
 
greenedge said:
Evans has finished 2nd in the TDF 2 times before however before winning. So you can't compare him to Pereiro. However Oscar did have to ride for Valverde in practically every TDF. And in 06 he did ride a smart race, somehow clinging on to guys like Menchov and Moreau most of the time. ( why didn't Valverde ride the TDF in 06??? ). Also the race would have been more exciting if Ulrich, Basso and Mancebo were there. Mayo disappointed as well.

Valverde i think will ride most of the Spanish races.
I wasn't comparing Evans to Pereiro in the way they won the race - Pereiro won due to luckily gaining a breakaway advantage which he held. Evans won by making sure that if others had misfortune, he would be best placed to take advantage.

I was only using Pereiro as an example because some people were suggesting that Evans' win was lucky, that he wouldn't have won if X or Y hadn't happened. And that may be true, but X and Y DID happen, and Evans was the one who was smart enough and strong enough to profit.

When people said that Pereiro was lucky to win the Tour, that he wasn't a true Tour winner or whatever, he said "I don't care", because he has a yellow jersey at home that he won. And what other people think about how he won it is irrelevant. That's why I mentioned Pereiro. Because what people say about how the Tour would have gone if X or Y hadn't happened is totally irrelevant. Evans has every right to act the same way as Pereiro and say, "yes, several people crashed out. Yes, Contador wasn't on his best form. Yes, Andy Schleck wasted his first couple of big opportunities to gain time. But who cares what 'could' have happened? What did happen is that I won the Tour de France, so I don't give a damn".
 
Mar 19, 2009
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now people are going too far off topic, please stop this now or I will do more than delete things, whatever that may be :S, last warning
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
considering his sprint he will just win as many races as he did before, maybe some less because of gilbert
They never win as many as before once they are off the drugs. Look at Vino.:eek:
 
Andre.J said:
They never win as many as before once they are off the drugs. Look at Vino.:eek:
But the Valverde case is unusual even within that - in that the drugs offences he was being banned for occurred more than three years before he was suspended. So we realistically have absolutely no idea what Valverde was taking, if anything, from 2007-2010, so therefore we have no idea if he'll be able to return at the same level or not.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
But the Valverde case is unusual even within that - in that the drugs offences he was being banned for occurred more than three years before he was suspended. So we realistically have absolutely no idea what Valverde was taking, if anything, from 2007-2010, so therefore we have no idea if he'll be able to return at the same level or not.
Valverde is a cyclist who would benefit the most from blood doping. If he wins a Grand Tour again we'll know. He's too inconsistent normally. He's a great athlete, but his recuperation skills are nowhere near those of Contador, Schleck or Menchov. One day he can be one of the best, but the other he's getting dropped on easy mountain stages and loses a lot of time.
 
Plus it remains to be seen how he comes back after so long out of competition. It's a long time out and many athletes never regain the same level again. I'd be surprised if he continued with as much success as before plus the next generation are starting to show through.
 
Sep 21, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Valverde is a cyclist who would benefit the most from blood doping. If he wins a Grand Tour again we'll know. He's too inconsistent normally. He's a great athlete, but his recuperation skills are nowhere near those of Contador, Schleck or Menchov. One day he can be one of the best, but the other he's getting dropped on easy mountain stages and loses a lot of time.
You're right when you say that his recovery is not as good as that of Contador, but his inconsistency was somewhat reduced when his DS convinced him to restraint his efforts to attack and win stages in spectacular fashion during GTs and be a boring conservative rider.

movingtarget said:
Plus it remains to be seen how he comes back after so long out of competition. It's a long time out and many athletes never regain the same level again. I'd be surprised if he continued with as much success as before plus the next generation are starting to show through.
Active pros who have gone on training rides with him have reported that he still beats them. We'll see next year.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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icefire said:
You're right when you say that his recovery is not as good as that of Contador, but his inconsistency was somewhat reduced when his DS convinced him to restraint his efforts to attack and win stages in spectacular fashion during GTs and be a boring conservative rider.



Active pros who have gone on training rides with him have reported that he still beats them. We'll see next year.
He should do a training ride with Phil's group(Vinokourov, Hushovd, Phil, Rebellin, etc) then :p I'd think they'd all drop Valverde like a stone. :D
 
El Pistolero said:
He should do a training ride with Phil's group(Vinokourov, Hushovd, Phil, Rebellin, etc) then :p I'd think they'd all drop Valverde like a stone. :D
Valverde's group includes the likes of Samuel Sánchez, Luís León Sánchez, Carlos Barredo, José Joaquín Rojas and Beñat Intxausti, so hardly a bunch of scrubs.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Valverde's group includes the likes of Samuel Sánchez, Luís León Sánchez, Carlos Barredo, José Joaquín Rojas and Beñat Intxausti, so hardly a bunch of scrubs.
I've seen them all get dropped 100 times already by Phil this year though :p
 
El Pistolero said:
I've seen them all get dropped 100 times already by Phil this year though :p

Yeah we get it, Gilbert is the rider of the year:rolleyes:

Not one of your many contributions to this "Valverde" thread has failed to mention Gilberts 2011 season.

We are supposed to be more impressed with Gilbert now that you have pointed out that he dropped Carlos Barredo and LLS?????

As for Samu, they kind of had different season peaks and objectives didnt they:cool:
 
Jul 16, 2010
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The Hitch said:
Yeah we get it, Gilbert is the rider of the year:rolleyes:

Not one of your many contributions to this "Valverde" thread has failed to mention Gilberts 2011 season.

We are supposed to be more impressed with Gilbert now that you have pointed out that he dropped Carlos Barredo and LLS?????

As for Samu, they kind of had different season peaks and objectives didnt they:cool:
They were kinda in every single race together since April :p

Besides we all know where Valverde is going to in 2012.
 
El Pistolero said:
They were kinda in every single race together :p
Won't Valverde be a threat in a lot more races than Gilbert though? Even if Gilbert will be more of a threat than Valverde in the races where both are threats?

Seriously, the talk was "is he in condition", the comment was "active riders who he trains with say he's dropped them". It has nothing whatsoever to do with Gilbert. Why should I care who Gilbert trains with? Besides, it really depends on the training routes. If training in the mountains, I'd be more impressed by somebody dropping Samuel Sánchez and Beñat Intxausti than them dropping Philippe Gilbert and Thor freaking Hushovd.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Won't Valverde be a threat in a lot more races than Gilbert though? Even if Gilbert will be more of a threat than Valverde in the races where both are threats?

Seriously, the talk was "is he in condition", the comment was "active riders who he trains with say he's dropped them". It has nothing whatsoever to do with Gilbert. Why should I care who Gilbert trains with? Besides, it really depends on the training routes. If training in the mountains, I'd be more impressed by somebody dropping Samuel Sánchez and Beñat Intxausti than them dropping Philippe Gilbert and Thor freaking Hushovd.
And Jesus Hernandez regularly drops Contador on training rides. True story. I wouldn't be so impressed by it if I were you. Valverde is lacking race rhythm and you can't simulate that in training rides. The last time someone was great right away after his doping ban that someone ended up in the hospital. I'm just saying.
 
El Pistolero said:
And Jesus Hernandez regularly drops Contador on training rides. True story. I wouldn't be so impressed by it if I were you. Valverde is lacking race rhythm and you can't simulate that in training rides.
Did I say I was impressed? No, I don't believe I did. You just jumped in to weigh in that he'd be dropped if he trained with Gilbert's group, because they train way harder and better because OMGGILBERT. I said that if they're doing mountains, I'd be more impressed by him dropping his training partners than Gilbert, because his training partners, bar perhaps Rojas, are better mountain riders than Gilbert.

That doesn't mean I expect Valverde to come in raring to go and flatten everybody in March.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Did I say I was impressed? No, I don't believe I did. You just jumped in to weigh in that he'd be dropped if he trained with Gilbert's group, because they train way harder and better because OMGGILBERT. I said that if they're doing mountains, I'd be more impressed by him dropping his training partners than Gilbert, because his training partners, bar perhaps Rojas, are better mountain riders than Gilbert.

That doesn't mean I expect Valverde to come in raring to go and flatten everybody in March.
The only reason why anyone would use the "he still drops active pros" is to suggest he's going to be in top shape from the start already. I highly doubt that's going to happen. Besides, it wasn't even you that said that. My comment about Phil was just a joke lol.

As for Phil, he usually trains in Monaco so I'm guessing his training regime include more hills than it includes mountains. Though every pro trains on real mountains as well I suppose.
 
El Pistolero said:
The only reason why anyone would use the "he still drops active pros" is to suggest he's going to be in top shape from the start already. I highly doubt that's going to happen. Besides, it wasn't even you that said that. My comment about Phil was just a joke lol.

As for Phil, he usually trains in Monaco so I'm guessing his training regime include more hills than it includes mountains. Though every pro trains on real mountains as well I suppose.
There are plenty of proper mountains he can train on in the Monaco region - Mont Agel, Col des Braus, la Madone de Gorbio, Castillon, La Turbie, Baisse de la Cabanette and so on.

It's a real shame the Tour doesn't really utilise that region anything like often enough, preferring to use the same old same old instead. And when Paris-Nice comes round in March, it's too early to use most of the high passes.
 

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