Valverde - my suspension is a great injustice

[The Hitch]

Valverdes not going to be allowed to ride London 2012? Or is that only if you get caught with a positive test that your not allowed? Surely considering British athletes are given pardons for missing a test then go on to win the gold, then Valverde can get a pardon?

I ask because hes a good enough sprinter to take that Road race, especially if Spain blow apart the field for him.

The worlds in Holland 2 months later is already in the bag of course

It seemed his Ardennes domination lessened, while his weeklong stage race results improved and ultimately so did his results in the Vuelta but one could easily attribute that to maturity and experience just as much to a continued program.

Did it. You cant win LBL every year and this year he came 3rd. He wasnt too bad in gts when he got podium in 2003 at the age of 23.

And bare in mind Valverde was the world number 1 (according to CQ) from some point in 2008 all the way up to his suspencion. Thats about 30 months or so straight at the top as the worlds number 1 cyclist.

 

[pedaling squares]

... I find it an injustice that Valverde got nailed and so many others involved with the same doctor were able to run free, especially those from other sports that are much more intent on sweeping their doping issues under the rug to protect their athletes.

I agree with that. Where sufficient evidence existed, all of them should have been punished. The issue seems to be the lack of some governing bodies to investigate. Some sports seem to be protected, riders from some nations seem to get more protection. We're likely to continue to see this so long as the investigations/suspensions are the responsibility of the nations issuing the sporting licences.

 

[hrotha]

I stand by my points, but my opinion in this case is colored by fanboy sentimentality.

Is this an unpardonable sin in the Clinic?

Why do you attack Armstrong fanboys then?

 

[simo1733]

Valverdes not going to be allowed to ride London 2012? Or is that only if you get caught with a positive test that your not allowed? Surely considering British athletes are given pardons for missing a test then go on to win the gold, then Valverde can get a pardon?

I ask because hes a good enough sprinter to take that Road race, especially if Spain blow apart the field for him.

The worlds in Holland 2 months later is already in the bag of course



Did it. You cant win LBL every year and this year he came 3rd. He wasnt too bad in gts when he got podium in 2003 at the age of 23.

And bare in mind Valverde was the world number 1 (according to CQ) from some point in 2008 all the way up to his suspencion. Thats about 30 months or so straight at the top as the worlds number 1 cyclist.

Millar never got caught with a positive test but he is banned from the British Olypic team

 

[brianf7]

I agree with that. Where sufficient evidence existed, all of them should have been punished. The issue seems to be the lack of some governing bodies to investigate. Some sports seem to be protected, riders from some nations seem to get more protection. We're likely to continue to see this so long as the investigations/suspensions are the responsibility of the nations issuing the sporting licences.

WADA have a convention in 2006 an agreement with all countries that signed it.
WADA law is just that WADA law but in many countries the laws are different

Some human rights laws are writen is such a way that WADA need the national govening body to act within the law of that country.

In Australia it is ilegal to not alow a person to join a club or take part in a sport if say they need a special medication that WADA dont like it is well covered by the equal oppertunity act. they are discriminating against a dissability recognised in that country only.

The athleat cant sue WADA but they can charge the Governing body with Discrimination and take their Government to Court with huge costs.

So each Country needs to deal with their own sanctions etc.

 

[Berzin]

Why do you attack Armstrong fanboys then?

If anyone can accuse me of posting stuff like they do, I would see the point of your question.

But I don't.

 

[frenchfry]

None of them want to pay the price. Valverde had a chance to drag it out and avoid it, so he did. All of the others would have taken it given the chance.

"All the others" have not taken the same approach as Valv/Pitti. Some have, but many haven't.

He still takes us for idiots, thus my point of view. I have nothing personal against him, in other circumstances I might actually consider him an interesting rider. The problem is that he has proven to be a doper and serial liar, so how can we consider his "victories" legitimate. Quite honestly I find his claims of injustice rather tiring and self serving.

It is my impression that he has had a relatively easy time on these forums compared to some other unrepentant dopers.

 

[Finbouy]

I've always liked Valvs riding style. Though in now way do I see any of myself in him, it's a style that I think I have.

To me he always seemed to be one of the top riders in the sport. OP asside, I've always admired his riding and humility on and off the bike. But them I like most Spanish Riders. It was he in his Ilas Baleiaras era that made me pike my bike riding back up and I followed him and SSanchez et all with glee.

As for whether justice has finally caught up with him I feel tinged with a little sadness. Him being the only one that seemed to escape the ban until now, which is too late IMO. If any justice should have been delt then as soon as evidence was found, not many seasons later.

However I do look forward to seeing him return, I think he'll be as good, maybe better, on his return. AN I'm keen to see him ride hard once again. I've missed his riding and missed his attacking.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

"All the others" have not taken the same approach as Valv/Pitti. Some have, but many haven't.

He still takes us for idiots, thus my point of view. I have nothing personal against him, in other circumstances I might actually consider him an interesting rider. The problem is that he has proven to be a doper and serial liar, so how can we consider his "victories" legitimate. Quite honestly I find his claims of injustice rather tiring and self serving.

It is my impression that he has had a relatively easy time on these forums compared to some other unrepentant dopers.

How many others had the opportunity to take the same approach as Valverde? di Luca was claiming conspiracy against him, but because there were positive tests, he wasn't still riding, so people were ignoring him, knowing that there was a positive test to prove him wrong. The only difference between di Luca and Valverde was that Valverde was still riding when he was claiming injustice. Ricardo Riccò tried to weasel out of the full two years by naming some already-well-known names and claiming it as some great anti-doping work. The only difference? He was already banned when he did it.

When Valverde was still riding he was treated like Satan incarnate by many on these boards. Why? Not because he was a doper - many people on here have no problem with dopers. Not even because he was an unrepentant doper - there are many Vino fans on this board, and many Riccò fans on this board - but because unlike them, he hadn't served his time, and his presence was a daily reminder of the farcical injustices that perpetuate throughout this sport.

I also disagree with the concept that many subscribe to which is if you doped once, every result you ever got ever was doped. I'm not saying that Valverde only doped once - that would be a ludicrous claim to make. But somebody like Damiano Cunego surely highlights how worthless a viewpoint that is like a lightswitch is - one that makes the assumption that if you doped, you never once rode clean, and that if you haven't been linked explicitly to doping then every single performance you ever did was clean.

I wouldn't feel confident pointing at Valverde's performances and saying 'that was clean' or 'that was dirty', and the trust issue is what you rightly bring up - how could you ever trust that his performances were clean, when there's no clearly marcated drop-off in form like there is with Cunego.

But that there are people like Roberto Heras who've disappeared from the sport entirely, that there are people like Paco Mancebo and Michael Rasmussen who may never find a decent level team again... those people may have every right to laugh at Valverde claiming injustice considering he's no less guilty than them, and he's still been earning for the last three and a half years. But then Valverde isn't looking at them when he claims injustice. He forgets there are others who've come out of it worse. He's looking at people like David Blanco, Eladio Jiménez and Constantino Zaballa, who've raced at a lower level without questions, people like Rubén Plaza, who've come back up to the top level, and people like Fränk Schleck, who nobody seems to have a problem with riding around as one of the elite riders in the world, and how they can quietly get on with business while he's got the UCI permanently biting at his heels. That's why he's claiming injustices. The problem is, there are injustices both ways - it's unjust that he was riding on without the ban, but it was also unjust that people guilty of equal sins were not being pursued equally.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Alejandro Valverde - my suspension is a great injustice

Alejandro asserts he was the most tested rider in the world - where have we heard that bs before?

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...d-and-is-determined-to-return-to-the-top.aspx

cheers

Listening to this guy makes me feel sick!

How many others had the opportunity to take the same approach as Valverde? di Luca was claiming conspiracy against him, but because there were positive tests, he wasn't still riding, so people were ignoring him, knowing that there was a positive test to prove him wrong. The only difference between di Luca and Valverde was that Valverde was still riding when he was claiming injustice. Ricardo Riccò tried to weasel out of the full two years by naming some already-well-known names and claiming it as some great anti-doping work. The only difference? He was already banned when he did it.

When Valverde was still riding he was treated like Satan incarnate by many on these boards. Why? Not because he was a doper - many people on here have no problem with dopers. Not even because he was an unrepentant doper - there are many Vino fans on this board, and many Riccò fans on this board - but because unlike them, he hadn't served his time, and his presence was a daily reminder of the farcical injustices that perpetuate throughout this sport.

I also disagree with the concept that many subscribe to which is if you doped once, every result you ever got ever was doped. I'm not saying that Valverde only doped once - that would be a ludicrous claim to make. But somebody like Damiano Cunego surely highlights how worthless a viewpoint that is like a lightswitch is - one that makes the assumption that if you doped, you never once rode clean, and that if you haven't been linked explicitly to doping then every single performance you ever did was clean.

I wouldn't feel confident pointing at Valverde's performances and saying 'that was clean' or 'that was dirty', and the trust issue is what you rightly bring up - how could you ever trust that his performances were clean, when there's no clearly marcated drop-off in form like there is with Cunego.

But that there are people like Roberto Heras who've disappeared from the sport entirely, that there are people like Paco Mancebo and Michael Rasmussen who may never find a decent level team again... those people may have every right to laugh at Valverde claiming injustice considering he's no less guilty than them, and he's still been earning for the last three and a half years. But then Valverde isn't looking at them when he claims injustice. He forgets there are others who've come out of it worse. He's looking at people like David Blanco, Eladio Jiménez and Constantino Zaballa, who've raced at a lower level without questions, people like Rubén Plaza, who've come back up to the top level, and people like Fränk Schleck, who nobody seems to have a problem with riding around as one of the elite riders in the world, and how they can quietly get on with business while he's got the UCI permanently biting at his heels. That's why he's claiming injustices. The problem is, there are injustices both ways - it's unjust that he was riding on without the ban, but it was also unjust that people guilty of equal sins were not being pursued equally.

I feel sorry for you that you stick up for this guy so religiously. The paragraph in bold is very wrong.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It does seem rather unjust that after they "finally" caught Valverde, the entire Puerto case was "finally' over. Even though dozens of other riders and who knows how many other athletes, went untouched. None the less, two wrongs don't make a right. He doped, was caught, and was finally suspended.

I tend to agree with the others. He seemed to show no contrition, and lied every step of the way. He didn't even come up with any sort of realistic explanation/excuses that could have helped his cause. His main arguments were that it wasn't fair, and he didn't dope (despite hard evidence to the contrary). It's like he's from the Lance Armstrong school of arguing.

I still feel now, as I did a few years ago, that it would have benefited him to find a way to cooperate with REFC by giving information to help combat doping, and give a humbling apology. He may have gotten some sort of reduced suspension that held up to CAS. Now, there's no way he's coming back until his suspension is over. And the sad part is, once he's back, I'm sure he'll go fully back to upholding the omerta as he always has in the past.

 

[Aguirre]

Listening to this guy makes me feel sick!


I feel sorry for you that you stick up for this guy so religiously. The paragraph in bold is very wrong.

sorry for you, I support that thesis. Much hipocresy in cycling. Valverde Free!

 

[Dallas_]

sorry for you, I support that thesis. Much hipocresy in cycling. Valverde Free!

aguirre, did you mean free valverde?

Guilty as charged and now serving the time. We can thank the Italians for pursuing him. interested to read a reply. cheers

 

[bobbins]

It's al a pretty grey area though, he 'prepared to cheat' but didn't (as fas as can be proven).

Puerto is a blueprint of how not to progress a doping case, lets hope they get it right with Lance.

 

[nobilis]

Listening to this guy makes me feel sick!

Watching Evans riding and then seeing him whining after the race makes me wanna puke.

I feel sorry for you that you stick up for this guy so religiously. The paragraph in bold is very wrong.

Evans has never been caught. But no one can assume that he's clean. The whole system is rotten, And there are many ways to avoid being caught.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Watching Evans riding and then seeing him whining after the race makes me wanna puke.



Evans has never been caught. But no one can assume that he's clean. The whole system is rotten, And there are many ways to avoid being caught.

Why don't you keep on the topic of the thread? If you want to discuss evans' 'whining' then make another thread about when he has supposedly done so.

If Evans is a cheat and is caught then I will treat him the same. Hypothetically if valverde was innocent I still would not like the guy.

 

[nobilis]

Listening to this guy makes me feel sick!


I feel sorry for you that you stick up for this guy so religiously. The paragraph in bold is very wrong.

Hypothetically if valverde was innocent I still would not like the guy.

This is exactly my point, you all valverde haters seem like having personal issues with him, not related to doping, or maybe there is a culture of hating the winners.

 

[The Hitch]

Evans has never been caught. But no one can assume that he's clean. The whole system is rotten, And there are many ways to avoid being caught.

+1.

Tbf to ACF Valverde has been costing Evans now and again. He beat him for the Dauphine, he beat him at the Vuelta and he beat him for 3rd place at Liege so thats probably why he doesnt like him.

But you are right about the fact that there are ways to avoid being caught.

Given all the evidence i would say that P(Valverde dopes) = P(Evans dopes)

 

[hrotha]

Yes but there's a chance Evans wouldn't react like Valverde if caught.

 

[Aguirre]

aguirre, did you mean free valverde?

Guilty as charged and now serving the time. We can thank the Italians for pursuing him. interested to read a reply. cheers

I defend Valverde as a clean, humble, rider who was caught into a trap, an attempt to close the OP finding him guilty: there is no way to sanction a rider in such retrospective way. Not to mention to erase all his 2010 palmares retrospectively, to suffer 3 years ban in Italy, not to mention Torri's methods, complot like, etc.

Surely when he was in Kelme was part of an oganised doping system, as in every team from 2000 to 2005, but that doesn't make him more guilty that anybody else.

Valverde is a exemplary rider who was in the wrong place at the wrong time around 2003-2004 (6 years ago!). He payed for others, he loves cycling and will return to kick many asses.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm able to distinguish between riders and even support chicken Rasmussen because what he is suffering is not normal and shows the ****ing system cycling is.

 

[frenchfry]

I defend Valverde as a clean, humble, rider who was caught into a trap, an attempt to close the OP finding him guilty: there is no way to sanction a rider in such retrospective way. Not to mention to erase all his 2010 palmares retrospectively, to suffer 3 years ban in Italy, not to mention Torri's methods, complot like, etc.

Surely when he was in Kelme was part of an oganised doping system, as in every team from 2000 to 2005, but that doesn't make him more guilty that anybody else.

Valverde is a exemplary rider who was in the wrong place at the wrong time around 2003-2004 (6 years ago!). He payed for others, he loves cycling and will return to kick many asses.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm able to distinguish between riders and even support chicken Rasmussen because what he is suffering is not normal and shows the ****ing system cycling is.

I must admit you had me fooled for a while, I thought you were serious.

Now I realise that you are just s****ing us - a kind of WonderLance light.

edit: who would have thought that sp00fing would be censored

 

[The Hitch]

Yes but there's a chance Evans wouldn't react like Valverde if caught.

Evans, are you kidding. It would probably be entertaining.

"What? I demand to know why my doctors offices were raided and not Ferraris office. Why is Nibalis doctor given special treatment. This is unfair. Why not Nibalis samples? Test Nibalis samples. Test them now or i cut off your head!!!!"

 

[Ferminal]

Evans, are you kidding. It would probably be entertaining.

"What? I demand to know why my doctors offices were raided and not Ferraris office. Why is Nibalis doctor given special treatment. This is unfair. Why not Nibalis samples? Test Nibalis samples. Test them now or i cut off your head!!!!"

Just don't search his dog and he will be OK.

 

[Aguirre]

I must admit you had me fooled for a while, I thought you were serious.

Now I realise that you are just s****ing us - a kind of WonderLance light.

edit: who would have thought that sp00fing would be censored

I'm fully serious, and I distinguish cases and riders, Valverde's is one of the bigest injusticies in cycling history, you can only compare with removing "chicken" in yellow because (supposely) he lied to the team, what the **** this system is?

 

[Ferminal]

So Valverde was 100% clean of any PEDs when he won the Vuelta?

I thought only Garmin's immense program would be able to achieve such a feat.