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keen_but_slow said:The numbers are off. I'm 70kg when fit, and I put out 320W for an hour according to my SRM, and according to my own calculations and how fast I get up mountains. Obree rode away from me up a 6 minute climb in England like I wasn't moving - and this was long after he'd retired so he's more than 360.
I'm exactly the same height as Chris Boardman and probably the same weight and he used to murder me in time trials - 6-7 minutes over 25 miles - before he did the hour record first time and turned pro. His bike position similar to mine (I sat on his Lotus) so either he's super-slippery through the air or he's putting out a chunk over 400. Merckx was a much bigger chap. His saddle somewhere near my chin.
My VO2max is in the high 60s - I'm pretty ordinary. I was top 10% in cross-country in school but nowhere near the front.
I do believe that the guys still in the front group with 5km to go in the mountaintop finishes in the grand tours are getting help, but I base that on the fact that those occasions are at the end of long days after two weeks of racing and there's only so much water and carb a stomach can process. I ride up Alpe d'Huez 5 minutes slower at the end of the Marmotte than I do from scratch ... and the following day I ride up 2 minutes slower than normal (there's a hillclimb the next morning so I've done it).
BUT there's a lot of people on here seriously underestimating what can be done clean in a standalone effort. I'm happy that guy that's 6'4" and high 70s can belt out high 400s for half an hour if he's sat in the wheels all week and he's a natural talent like the kids that won cross-country in the regional schools races and left me for dead every week. A guy who has had to be in the front in the mountains every day and has to go full bore in the TTs puts out high 400s for 40 minutes from low 70s kgs on the last Wednesday in the Tour? No, not having that, sorry.
BigBoat said:486 watts for 30 minutes is absolute death even if you are very very lean at 200 pounds.... Keen how long can you hold 490 watts for? You should really try it like I did yesterday.
craig1985 said:The other thing is, I doubt Obree would of been able to afford to buy EPO etc. anyway. He could barely feed his family let alone do that.
Obree was clearly an phenomenal athlete.BigBoat said:But I doubt he had more than 420 watts for his FTP power. You cant really get better than that clean.
BigBoat said:Hi stephens. It was 5.9 liters per min for his highest clean. Or an 81.2 for Lances weight at the time. He adjusted it to 83.7 later on because he is lighter for Tours.
BigBoat said:Hey Keen... This is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q38Gyjv4EE&feature=channel_page
Watch this vid... (Crank the soundtrack LOL ) This is the power of Dr. Ferrari. In order to finish a Grand Tour You have to get within 15% of this guy's time... Within 38 minutes. Peanuts? Ha!
davidg said:I would like to think that Boardman was also clean ........
craig1985 said:The other thing is, I doubt Obree would of been able to afford to buy EPO etc. anyway. He could barely feed his family let alone do that.
franciep10 said:When I watched that I said there is no way the armstrong that I used to race against could do that, that's when I knew something was wrong, him giving pantani the win, I knew he wasn't clean before but that was different.
I believe Obree is clean and is a freak.keen_but_slow said:To be clear - I rode with him when he was in London to give a talk at the Sandown Park bike show thing. He'd long since retired and was talking about his just released book. He came out with the local ride in some walking boots with SPD cleats on the bottom and some 1980s clothing. Old bike with mudguards. When he turned up, all the young lads on their GBP5,000 bikes were looking down their noses at him. I'm thinking "I recognise this guy". I get chatting to him and realise who he is. On Box Hill (which is really pretty minor) he rode away. No attack, just rode at his own pace and was gone, and believe me I was trying to follow. I had to ride on the front with him all the way back - someone had to do it because he didn't know the way and nobody else could cope. He was chatting to me like he was at 120bpm and I was on the redline. No SRM that day which is a real shame, but I was at what felt like 300-320W. He was clean as a whistle that day, not training for anything and a cut above the rest of us.
If Boardman used EPO when he was at GAN, he was using it as an amateur when he rode for the mighty (!) Manchester Wheelers because there was no massive change in performance level from then.
BigBoat said:I believe Obree is clean and is a freak.
Boardman could have sandbagged when he rode with you after joining GAN. Or with a low crit offseason and undoped. It only takes 6 weeks or so to jack all the way to 59% on epo.
He also could have been jacked as an amateur too.. He certainly was not clean for his Tour rides. LOL, those F-ers were so high to the sky no clean rider would have been top 50 in one of those Tour de France TTs. LOL No stretch either... Thats being gentle.
Go to the UCI website and look at the passport... They dont even take passport crit values at all post stage for a minimum of 2 hours. What a joke! LOLBigBoat said:They can use Ringers Lactate IV's and plasma after the stages if there is no forced champerone.... If they have over 50% at the post stage control they can say that they are extremely dehyrated. This happens all the time. If your "natural crit" on the opening 2 days from the prologue was 47% its easy to be over 50% with "dehyration." Some of Lances crits posted on his website have been 46 or higher. Their true natural crits might be 39-42%...
The UCI likes to take their blood samples in the morning and factor that but not post stage... And if a rider is "sick" and "dehyrated" the UCI cant do a damn thing about it except let them go I believe...
BigBoat said:Well I can respect that opinion... But I do not agree. I think Boardman used epo.
Obree IMO was booted out of Euro pro racing because of not doing epo. His home made bikes helped him a lot though with aero.
dimspace said:discuss...
http://www.velonews.com/article/93542/uci-doping-chief-says-passport-program-shows-vast-majority
vast majority eh.. That'll upset some of 'em round 'ere
dimspace said:to be fair bb you would accuse you own mother of being on epo if she made it to the shops and back in less than ten minutes..
What kind of difference does bike technology make on power watt readings? Any? If Larson is using a modern TT bike versus someone from the 80's is that going to reflect in watts different?
Where are the stats on Greg Lemond's Power watt readings from the 80's?
And over a 30 minute ride? Do you actually have them or you just making stuff up?