Vaughters confirms past doping by Danielson, others at Garmin

[the big ring]

On a serious note, I have to applaud Vaughters for what he has been doing over the past couple weeks. .

Why? Is it voluntary?

 

[BikeCentric]

JV in twitterverse
@CensoredCyclist @nealrogers @nyvelocity This was sheer stupidity. No excuses. I just got too wrapped up in debate.

Not directed at you Kender, but the forum in general:

Do you people honestly believe this crap? Do you really think Vaughters is so stupid that he just "oops" accidentally outed the past doping of 3 of his top riders? That it was not pre-meditated and just a slip of the keyboard, a little drunk posting maybe?

If you believe that I've got some great mortgage backed securities to sell you! And some swamp land in Florida! Honestly if you people on here are that stupid and you are the "real fans" then this sport is screwed.

This has to be carefully planned by Vaughters and it is merely PR spin to protect his team and his riders. He is "getting in front of the story" as it's called in politics. He is trying to position these guys as having doped only in "the distant past" before they got to his team - his totally clean team of course. Furthermore, his notion that he knew these guys only doped a little and so could ride well clean but he also knew that Jacksche doped a lot so couldn't ride clean is pretty silly in my opinion. Seems like a convenient front story for enforcing Jorg's blacklisting.

Ask yourself, do you really think Christian Vande Velde was clean in 2008 when he suddenly became a Tour contender and got 5th while on Vaughters team after a career of domestiqueing at US Postal and elsewhere? Please.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

After a good night sleep, I can't see Vaughters going in over his head. Everyone agree he's a slick communicator.

However reading his candid tweets is an head scratcher: If he did it on purpose, with "no bad mojo" with the riders, why the crocodile tears of regret?

It's maybe unfair, but this would add to the ambiguity of Vaughters that's itching a lot of people here. Still, even if it's part of an elaborated gambit, must give him props to have done "this little bit foolish" (as said earlier) thing: it's a nice change of pace from the usual platitudes.

 

[meat puppet]

It's politics now, or actually it has been all along, so ambiguity is the name of the game. I think that the people saying it's an attempt to protect one's assets / rep by getting ahead of the news cycle is the most coherent explanation.

I dont know enough about the delicacies of the matter to make up my mind re JV's actions, but I wholeheartedly welcome the ****storm that the manouvre in question tries to duck if there is one coming.

Other than that, dunno. Just watching and waiting. Maybe something good will come out of this.

 

[neineinei]

The man who for years have been telling others to "(...) be specific with WADA and USADA. Be vague (and don't name names) with media (...)" got too
wrapped up in debate and outed 3 of his riders on a public forum? Nah.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Just to point out, but I was maybe the only one not to know (was not following duly what was happening), that Vande Velde & Zabriskie were speculated in July to be among the riders who witnessed to the USADA for a 6 month ban.

 

[python]

Just to point out, but I was maybe the only one not to know (was not following duly what was happening), that Vande Velde & Zabriskie were speculated in July to be among the riders who witnessed to the USADA for a 6 month ban.

true, but why danielson

logic says that vdv and Z are about to be named by usada anyway in their widely expected 'reasoned decision'...what is danielsen's connection to armstrong case ?

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

true, but why danielson

logic says that vdv and Z are about to be named by usada anyway in their widely expected 'reasoned decision'...what is danielsen's connection to armstrong case ?

Just speculating, but he may still be among the witnesses, or simply named somewhere during the investigation?
In more than a decade, and all the more now, USPS has been dissected like few teams before (Festina?).

Zabriskie and Vande Velde also went through Team CSC after that. Would be curious to have truthful accounts of what was going on there, if any...

 

[AcademyCC]

To me he's confirming it all on twitter - no problem with riders. It's a another carefully sculpted admission to dull the impact of the USADA hurricane.

Whether you think it was a mistake or planned doesn't really matter, it was a big blow to the Omerta. I was really annoyed when only a couple of current pro's spoke out after Lance accepted his punishment. JV's admission is a great sign. It really is up to the fans and journalists now to keep the pressure on and get the clean out that's needed. Short term bad for cycling's reputation - Long term its the only way forward.

Armstrong and McQuaid's worst ****ing nightmare is a rogue JV deciding Martyrdom is the way forward. For that reason alone this whole situation is brilliant.

Thanks JV - no apologies needed whatsover.

 

[meandmygitane]

Thank you JV, keep fighting for a cleaner sport!

 

[Bushranger]

To me he's confirming it all on twitter - no problem with riders. It's a another carefully sculpted admission to dull the impact of the USADA hurricane.

Whether you think it was a mistake or planned doesn't really matter, it was a big blow to the Omerta. I was really annoyed when only a couple of current pro's spoke out after Lance accepted his punishment. JV's admission is a great sign. It really is up to the fans and journalists now to keep the pressure on and get the clean out that's needed. Short term bad for cycling's reputation - Long term its the only way forward.

Armstrong and McQuaid's worst ****ing nightmare is a rogue JV deciding Martyrdom is the way forward. For that reason alone this whole situation is brilliant.

Thanks JV - no apologies needed whatsover.

I couldn't agree more. The fact that JV has to resort to these tactics is alarming. I t shows just how dirty the sport is. If you wanted to air your dirty laundry..now is as good a time as any.

 

[mikkemus23]

I think JV is doing the right thing, even if this is a PR stunt, which I don`t think. The comments on TDekker are too...ehem..weird.

What I would like to know is why JV`s realtionship with Hushovd allegedly turned sour? Anybody? Was it Thor`s past?

 

[The Sheep]

I actually have a little more faith now in Dekker because of that reveal. I thought it was weird how he was still vague in the press about his doping past but it seems he's listening to JV on that.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I think JV is doing the right thing, even if this is a PR stunt, which I don`t think. The comments on TDekker are too...ehem..weird.

What I would like to know is why JV`s realtionship with Hushovd allegedly turned sour? Anybody? Was it Thor`s past?

Hushovd is good friends with The Sociopath, and often wears a yellow wristband. It seems he started doing that more after he left Garmin.

 

[hrotha]

I can see how he'd get too wrapped up in the debate. He was talking to people who already knew about Vande Velde, Zabriskie and Danielson - hell, we were bringing them up and comparing them to Jaksche. It's easy to see how he'd let his guard down. The PR angle can't be ruled out, of course, especially with the stuff about Weltz in mind, but the alternative makes perfect sense to me.

 

[webvan]

Ask yourself, do you really think Christian Vande Velde was clean in 2008 when he suddenly became a Tour contender and got 5th while on Vaughters team after a career of domestiqueing at US Postal and elsewhere? Please.

That's a good point...but a lot of current cycling rests on his performance that year, for a start that's when Wiggins said a clean rider could compete in the TDF and now he's won it. Would JV really be that "open" if he had doubts about CVV in 2008, doubt it!

 

[AcademyCC]

Imagine 'The Look' on Armstrongs face. 'JV said what? In the ****ing clinic!'

Echo chamber? **** you!

 

[jpljpl]

One would hope that JV's actions would spark other managers to be more open about the past and the present political structure of the cycling sport.
I for one I am more pro-Garmin just for his outspokenness (even if it's only a PR stunt). If more fans would sign up to follow Garmin due to his actions, then other managers might follow the suit.

 

[ElChingon]

I can see how he'd get too wrapped up in the debate. He was talking to people who already knew about Vande Velde, Zabriskie and Danielson - hell, we were bringing them up and comparing them to Jaksche. It's easy to see how he'd let his guard down. The PR angle can't be ruled out, of course, especially with the stuff about Weltz in mind, but the alternative makes perfect sense to me.

You mean from the guy who keeps iterating and reiterating for riders not to talk to the public but only WADA, USADA, etc.? More like he wants to be the next Race Radio maybe he wanted to get back in the headlines after his good-old story of lost innocence due to being corrupted in his youth of mid 20's was put in the rubbish bin and Tyler was hogging the headlines. That I believe more than letting his guard down.

 

[fishtacos]

This has to be carefully planned by Vaughters and it is merely PR spin to protect his team and his riders. He is "getting in front of the story" as it's called in politics.

As to that, I agree that most likely he is getting in front of the story (not that I particularly blame him for that), but he's also getting in front of the Lance spin machine and apologists. Don't forget that they'll continue to loudly proclaiming His Yellowness' innocence while pointing the finger at the riders about to be named.

I've already had to deal with one person talking loudly about Lance being a "freak of nature", so he didn't have to use PEDs like "those other guys on his team".

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Macrodie has hit this one right on the button. Look at the whole conversation! He states 2/3 times how he advocates telling USADA/WADA whole truth and being vague with the public. Then boom... He drops a stonker. He even starts the Tommy D story with I'll give you a funny example, yep real funny.

I think he's managing the fallout of the USADA info that is about to flow. He's protecting his riders.

There is most certainly a storm coming

Yep. You can also see a clear timeline when Vaughters 'hits the clinic'.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=981647&postcount=181

And just look at the date, just coinciding with the New York Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/opinion/sunday/how-to-get-doping-out-of-sports.html?pagewanted=all

Vaughters is not a dumbass.

If he did blabbermouthed on Danielson et all it would be ironic he didn't want to hire blabbermouth Jaksche.

But, given his own statements concerning riders having to confess their doping practices to WADA et all I don't think this was a dumbass move at all.

 

[webvan]

maybe he wanted to get back in the headlines after his good-old story of lost innocence due to being corrupted in his youth of mid 20's was put in the rubbish bin

When did that happen? In Tyler's book ?

 

[taiwan]

When did that happen? In Tyler's book ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12...

I think.

 

[sniper]

nah, i think that he knew exactly what he was writing.
*goes back to trying to open his coconut*

good lord...it's a public forum, what would he think? No one reads it?...
I'm not really sure what vaughters expected talking smack about those guys. Of course, he didn't say anything that anyone paying attention didn't know already.

c'mon people. Let's get real here.
Jv didn't pop on in one of the 1,000 nondescript threads and throw out some obfuscated and tangential comment on why he did or didn't get along with thor hushovd.
He explicitly stated, under no duress, that three current professional cyclists, all former team mates of lance armstrong, and all current members of his protour team have a history of doping, and went in to some detail on one of them.
The "oops, i might have let just a teeny weeny bit too much informtion slip" idea is farcical (and absolutely not what i think his position is).

Yep. You can also see a clear timeline when Vaughters 'hits the clinic'.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=981647&postcount=181
And just look at the date, just coinciding with the New York Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/opinion/sunday/how-to-get-doping-out-of-sports.html?pagewanted=all
Vaughters is not a dumbass.
If he did blabbermouthed on Danielson et all it would be ironic he didn't want to hire blabbermouth Jaksche.
But, given his own statements concerning riders having to confess their doping practices to WADA et all I don't think this was a dumbass move at all.

+10 .......
shouldn't really be a doubt in anyone's mind that this was intentional. the intentionality of his public statements is the only real transparent thing about JV.
perception is reality.

 

[ElChingon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12...

I think.

Dead on! ...