Vayer unchained

Oct 16, 2010
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Now here's one with a sense of reality.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vayer-calls-for-srm-and-blood-data-from-sky

“I don’t believe that Sky are the dream team in a good sense. I would like to believe though but I was the trainer at the French dream team at Festina. Many other riders train very hard but why is it only Sky riders on the front playing with the others? If riders are hiding something we’ll know the truth in a few years but a man like me can’t believe. I have too much suspicion to be enthusiastic.”
“Look at the story. US Postal take del Moral who was at ONCE. Why do you take these doctors? And why do you take them from teams that have done rubbish things? It’s always the same story. Festina was Festina because they took Richard from PDM, Postal was Postal because they took Del Moral. Why would Sky take Leinders? Where did he work before? Why didn’t they go for the doctor at FDJ? Why did they even take a doctor at all? Is there a need for a doctor in the team at all? Leinders was not the model of integrity."
I assume he is again speaking on his own behalf, not on behalf of CCN?
On that topic, a lot of silence from CCN lately.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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sniper said:
Now here's one with a sense of reality.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vayer-calls-for-srm-and-blood-data-from-sky





I assume he is again speaking on his own behalf, not on behalf of CCN?
On that topic, a lot of silence from CCN lately.
It'll be interesting to watch Brailsford fall back to the Armstrong/Bruyneel mantra. 500 tests passed, can't prove a negative, on our bikes 6 hours a day, bustin' our ass, we are clinical in our approach, we pay attention to details, blah, blah, blah.

But he won't fork over the data. Can't do that.
 
Apr 10, 2011
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Why would Sky post any data if no other Pro Tour teams do that ?
:lol:

They have nothing to prove to others.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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Gloin22 said:
Why would Sky post any data if no other Pro Tour teams do that ?
:lol:

They have nothing to prove to others.
First of all, Garmin beat them to the punch anyway.

And wrt to the bolded - all the more reason to go further than the other teams and do more than scream "we're clean". Time for Brailsford to put his money where his mouth is.

Froome's passport data must be crazy w/ bilharzia...
 

lavieclaire

BANNED
Mar 12, 2013
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You have to admit, Vayer poses a question that Sky must answer, but at the same time I'm not sure they can answer it.

If they chose Leinders for doping they will never admit.

If they chose him just to be a normal doctor, they will say what they are saying but the bad smell will linger.

If they chose him for legitimate purposes, what could they conceivably say that would satisfy critics. What words would they say?

I really don't know, but at the very least they've scored a massive own goal.
 
lavieclaire said:
If they chose him for legitimate purposes, what could they conceivably say that would satisfy critics. What words would they say?
The problem is that would assume that no one among many at Team GB/Sky had the plain sense to imagine what is suggested by hiring Lienders and recommend against it.

I can knock this reasoning down some more, but it's repetitive by now. It's an easy excuse for the doping.

If Team GB were to replay the Wonderboy tactics, a lawsuit against Vayer in the UK will surely be next.
 
May 26, 2010
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Gloin22 said:
Why would Sky post any data if no other Pro Tour teams do that ?
:lol:

They have nothing to prove to others.
The other teams are no talking about being clean, training harder, marginal gains etc etc.

The other teams talk about the racing. Some allude to the doping , but it has to be read in between the lines.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
Christophe Bassons said that cycling teams only have doctors for 1 reason. Doping.
Is there any legitimate reason for cycling teams to employ doctors? And if they must have one why does it have to be one with experience in cycling? Id like to get Bailsford to answer those questions.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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the sceptic said:
Is there any legitimate reason for cycling teams to employ doctors? And if they must have one why does it have to be one with experience in cycling? Id like to get Bailsford to answer those questions.
Surely race Doctors when the riders are competing (provided by the organisers) and the riders own personal Doctor for the off season/non racing situations is enough.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Moose McKnuckles said:
No professional men's cycling team is complete without a gynecologist. Everyone knows this.
Armstrong was an expert in gynercology, is,

Cedars Sinai or Johns Hopkins both (!) gave him an honourary doctorate in ob-gyn
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Moose McKnuckles said:
No professional men's cycling team is complete without a gynecologist. Everyone knows this.
Particularly true if Levi L is on your team. Or Andy Schleck.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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1. Nice choice of thread title!

2. My question for Vayer or anyone else would be this: suppose that Wiggins posted a file from a TT where he averaged, say, 6.56 W/kg for ~1 h...is that proof of his innocence, or proof of his guilt?
 
May 26, 2010
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the sceptic said:
Is there any legitimate reason for cycling teams to employ doctors? And if they must have one why does it have to be one with experience in cycling? Id like to get Bailsford to answer those questions.
He wont answer it truthfully. The race supplies docs, the are plenty of local docs where teams are based, hospitlas near races etc. why do they need team docs? for doping.
 
May 26, 2010
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acoggan said:
1. Nice choice of thread title!

2. My question for Vayer or anyone else would be this: suppose that Wiggins posted a file from a TT where he averaged, say, 6.56 W/kg for ~1 h...is that proof of his innocence, or proof of his guilt?
According to the rules of cycling it proves nothing.

With the current UCI i wold not expect any proof of positves unless a team displeases UCI.
 
Jan 30, 2011
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acoggan said:
1. Nice choice of thread title!

2. My question for Vayer or anyone else would be this: suppose that Wiggins posted a file from a TT where he averaged, say, 6.56 W/kg for ~1 h...is that proof of his innocence, or proof of his guilt?
On a single piece of data it isn't possible to say.

But hopefully they would publish a whole range of data including blood passport information, list of supplements/TUEs, etc. and the totality of everything would help draw a clear picture.
 
acoggan said:
2. My question for Vayer or anyone else would be this: suppose that Wiggins posted a file from a TT where he averaged, say, 6.56 W/kg for ~1 h...is that proof of his innocence, or proof of his guilt?
It would prove that Wiggins is either the greatest natural talent ever found in the history of cycling, a talent that did not show itself until he was in his thirties despite racing for for ten years, or the sport's greatest fraud. I know which one I am betting on.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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acoggan said:
1. Nice choice of thread title!

2. My question for Vayer or anyone else would be this: suppose that Wiggins posted a file from a TT where he averaged, say, 6.56 W/kg for ~1 h...is that proof of his innocence, or proof of his guilt?
It could prove u are the best trainer/coach of all time. Thanks to u someone showed better skills than Fignon/Hinault/LeMond. Prove that a donkey can be turned in a racehorse.

Without doping of course. Numbers prove nothing. We know.

But, we know Vayer knows what a clean cyclist is capable of. And, how much improvement he can make when doped. He does have an edge on You.
 
Jun 11, 2012
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Well... one thing he's totally wrong about is this quote: “It’s good to say you train harder with more technology but I could say the same about Festina, too. I was the first trainer in 1994 to put home trainers out before the time trials because no one was ever warming up. We were copied for that. I was the first trainer to also make the Festina riders have long training camps.”

Not warming up? Really? Ffs, in my first Paris-Nice in 89 ADR had rollers or 'turbos' available, and they were well used... and any event with a TT or TTT we always traveled with the same. Silly comment to make Vayer...
 
Apr 21, 2012
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In July 1999, Vayer was one of the first to say LA was a cheat using numbers and comparing LA datas to Bassons' (in the newspaper "Le Monde"). He deserves respect for that but most of the times he's a bit chaotic... I mean he talks too much, don't forget Ashenden left CCN because of one of Vayer's chaotic actions ;)
 
Jul 9, 2010
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Gregga said:
In July 1999, Vayer was one of the first to say LA was a cheat using numbers and comparing LA datas to Bassons' (in the newspaper "Le Monde"). He deserves respect for that but most of the times he's a bit chaotic... I mean he talks too much, don't forget Ashenden left CCN because of one of Vayer's chaotic actions ;)
Maybe so, but he sure does ask the right questions. And I don't really know why teams are so shy of publishing that data (apart from the dirty ones who are then exposed). So your opponent finds out your power levels. Well, they're going to find out at the first race day, anyway....
 

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