Velo d’Or 2023

[zlev11]

if he wins the Vuelta, it's Roglic

this is a ridiculous season already: https://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=20719&year=2023&all=1&current=0

if he doesn't, it's Vingegaard. podium PN, won Itzulia, Dauphine and TdF. Remco is not even close, he has 1 monument, 1 one day race and UAE Tour. get real.

 

[houtdffan]

only if he also wins the WC RR and WC ITT i assume. (otherwise it is even worse than last year).

it would be better than last year. He was 11th at Suisse, didn't ride Cataluyna or UAE Tour

 

[houtdffan]

Remco could win all 3GT in a year plus 3 monuments and some would still say he is not the best rider

 

[zlev11]

Remco could win all 3GT in a year plus 3 monuments and some would still say he is not the best rider

well yeah what if another guy won both UAE Tour and San Sebastian?

 

[Anderis]

Alaphilippe winning in 2019 (...) was pure comedy.

I disagree, he did feel like the best rider in the world in 2019.

First he won MSR after beating Sagan in the sprint, then he came to TdF and won an ITT and finished 2nd on Tourmalet. It was so ridiculous it made me angry at the time. Little did I know about what Van Aert or Pogacar would be capable of doing a few years later but it was still ridiculous at the time.

 

[Andy schleck]

Remco. He won the classica san sebastian.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's too early to tell. Currently i would say that you need to win Vuelta to have it in the bag. That is if we focus on the favorites listed in the poll.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Vinge is in pole position but all 5 are close and could pull ahead depending on how the season goes but I think Evenepoel will win again.

MVDP
4 wins
2 monuments
2 2nd places, 1 monument and 1 WT classic
1 GC stage overall and stage win
Great leadout man for Philipsen
Would need to win Worlds while the other four fail on their objectives

Vinge
13 wins
1 GT
1 GT stage
3 GC stage overall, 2 WT, and stage wins in all
3rd in another WT stage race
Would need to podium or multiple stages and KoM at Vuelta to win but is in the pole position

Roglic
9 wins
1 GT
1 GT stage
2 GC stage overalls, both WT with stage wins in all
Would need to win the Vuelta

Pog
16 wins
1 monument
2 GT stage wins
2 GC stage overalls, 1 WT, and stage wins in all
2 WT classics
2nd overall GT
3rd WT classic
4th in a monument

Evenepoel
10 wins
1 monument
2 GT stage wins
1 WT stage race with a win
1 WT classic
National RR
2nd and 3rd WT stage race with stage wins
7th stage race
Would need to win Worlds RR/TT, GdL, and podium Vuelta

 

[Big Doopie]

Too early to tell.

As it stands, Vingegaard.

Agreed completely on both fronts.

It could still go to Pog, Rog or possibly Remco (if he does much what he did last year which will be pretty tough).

I don’t see VDP. If he wins WC, possibly. But only if the others fail completely the rest of the way. And still hard to take him over Vingo.

Right now:

1. Vingo
2. Pog
3. Rog
(Gap)
4. VDP/Remco

But things can and likely will change.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Right now this is how I have them
Vingegaard
Pog
MVDP
Rog
Remco
Remco, while in last place, has the most to gain over the remaining of the season.

 

[Big Doopie]

Right now this is how I have them
Vingegaard
Pog
MVDP
Rog
Remco
Remco, while in last place, has the most to gain over the remaining of the season.

Agreed. Covid and having to drop out of giro is a lot to come back from. Two stage wins and being forced out while wearing the pink ultimately won’t count for much unfortunately.

 

[jaylew]

Roglic is the hardest sell for me right now. He just hasn't raced very much and I don't put that Giro win ahead of Pogacar's 2nd at the Tour. I could probably get there if he wins the Vuelta but not if JV is also on the podium. And even if he won the Vuelta and JV didn't podium I could see putting Roglic behind any of the other 3 if one of them was to take care of business the rest of the way.

 

[Netserk]

I disagree, he did feel like the best rider in the world in 2019.

First he won MSR after beating Sagan in the sprint, then he came to TdF and won an ITT and finished 2nd on Tourmalet. It was so ridiculous it made me angry at the time. Little did I know about what Van Aert or Pogacar would be capable of doing a few years later but it was still ridiculous at the time.

I’ll give you that he had a very visible and impressive Tour, and that the manner in which a rider achieves his results have a big say. So while Bernal won the Tour, it was the least dominant victory of the past decade. But then Sagan really should have been in the running for 2018, certainly well ahead of Alaphilippe (that name again) who was third.

Even with that in mind though, I think you need to operate with a stupid amount of “style” points to rank Alaphilippe ahead of Bernal. And Rogla too. The results are just simply not good enough.

 

[Volderke]

Remco won't win it even if he wins the WC and Vuelta, because this cycling sport is a micky mouse sport. Only if he has a side sport like MMA, he is in the running.

If Pogacar can win something big (but he that should then be World's AND Lombardia or 2-3 other smaller 'classics',) I am leaning towards him, but only if Vingegaard / Roglic don't win the Vuelta, because if one of them does, there is really no contest (Pogacar can do a double backflip and still wouldn't win imho).

If none of those (Pogacar, Roglic, Evenepoel) win the World's / Vuelta (in Evenepoel's case he should win both to contest), it's always Vingegaard for me.

 

[Red Rick]

I’ll give you that he had a very visible and impressive Tour, and that the manner in which a rider achieves his results have a big say. So while Bernal won the Tour, it was the least dominant victory of the past decade. But then Sagan really should have been in the running for 2018, certainly well ahead of Alaphilippe (that name again) who was third.

Even with that in mind though, I think you need to operate with a stupid amount of “style” points to rank Alaphilippe ahead of Bernal. And Rogla too. The results are just simply not good enough.

Biggest criticsm of Alaphilippe's 2019 season is that he got destroyed in Liege, the one monument he was supposed to be suited for. That and doing nothing after the Tour. When you strip down the season it's really just 1 monument, 2 classics, 2 Tour stages and 6 minor wins.

Should really have been between Roglic and Bernal for 2019 and I'd have gone Rog there, but IMO Giro/Vuelta win+podium never gets rated much.

 

[theyoungest]

Remco won't win it even if he wins the WC and Vuelta, because this cycling sport is a micky mouse sport. Only if he has a side sport like MMA, he is in the running.

If Pogacar can win something big (but he that should then be World's AND Lombardia or 2-3 other smaller 'classics',) I am leaning towards him, but only if Vingegaard / Roglic don't win the Vuelta, because if one of them does, there is really no contest (Pogacar can do a double backflip and still wouldn't win imho).

If none of those (Pogacar, Roglic, Evenepoel) win the World's / Vuelta (in Evenepoel's case he should win both to contest), it's always Vingegaard for me.

You have to keep in mind that it's a journalists' prize. They love Pogacar, they love Evenepoel, but Vingegaard... not so much. So I'd still give Pogacar a chance even if Vingegaard manages to win the Vuelta.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic is the hardest sell for me right now. He just hasn't raced very much and I don't put that Giro win ahead of Pogacar's 2nd at the Tour. I could probably get there if he wins the Vuelta but not if JV is also on the podium. And even if he won the Vuelta and JV didn't podium I could see putting Roglic behind any of the other 3 if one of them was to take care of business the rest of the way.

Why is, as it stands, Roglic a harder sell than Evenepoel. Or is winning Liege against Jimmy Johnny and Timmy bigger than winning the Giro?

 

[Peter von]

Tough to say atm. Vuelta, worlds and Italian classics still to come.
And there is both the matter of who will win it and who we think should win it.
For example I have a very emotional preference for Pogi, because I think it's super cool he wins Flanders and still finishes second in the Tour. But just because I rate Flanders a lot compared to Dauphine doesn't mean Vingegaard's Dauphine win didn't happen.

then there is the matter of, Is it Remco's fault that Pogi crashes out and Roglic and Wout doesn't line up in LBL?
It is still a win in LBL. Just like Rogi still won the giro even though Remco had to bail out with COVID.

How does a Giro win compared to the Tour?
How does it comapare to Vuelta?
Do the riders even get points for not winning?

I feel like Podium in the Tour is still pretty massive, where as being third in Giro or Vuelta doesn't move the needle that much, whilst still being a massive achievement of cause.

I think the Vuelta winner is very hard to look past if it is Rog, Vinge or Remco

 

[Volderke]

I feel like Podium in the Tour is still pretty massive, where as being third in Giro or Vuelta doesn't move the needle that much, whilst still being a massive achievement of cause.

I think the Vuelta winner is very hard to look past if it is Rog, Vinge or Remco

The podium in the Tour (being 2nd) is pretty massive, but that's why it's so much more than massive if you obliterate that 2nd and become 1st, so the more you value Pogacar's podium, the harder it is to ignore Vingegaard.

I agree that the Vuelta winner is a big thing (or maybe bigger than it should be), just because we have 3 of the competitors for the Velo d'Or competing. Ofcourse, for Vingegaard, it shouldn't make too much of a difference if he doesn't get any result in this Vuelta. Working for Roglic wouldn't even reduce his chances, if Roglic wins the Vuelta thanks to Vingegaard's work. But let's see what happens.

 

[Netserk]

A reminder that Armstrong won the award (for the 5th time) ahead of Cunego in 2004. The Tour is simply more important than anything else.

 

[Peter von]

The podium in the Tour (being 2nd) is pretty massive, but that's why it's so much more than massive if you obliterate that 2nd and become 1st, so the more you value Pogacar's podium, the harder it is to ignore Vingegaard.

I agree that the Vuelta winner is a big thing (or maybe bigger than it should be), just because we have 3 of the competitors for the Velo d'Or competing. Ofcourse, for Vingegaard, it shouldn't make too much of a difference if he doesn't get any result in this Vuelta. Working for Roglic wouldn't even reduce his chances, if Roglic wins the Vuelta thanks to Vingegaard's work. But let's see what happens.

Yeah, a whole new front of how impressive was the win can also be opened. And yes of cause the Tour second in general is huge because the win and the event itself is so massive. And you kinda have to nerf the importance of the Tour win to even have the conversation of the cyclist of the year. because on paper it takes winning the two other GT plus two monuments to be in that same conversation as that years Tour winner, especially if he also took a few one week races.

Yes, that's also a thing, if Vingegaard works really hard for the team once in a while, and still produces individual honors along the way.

A reminder that Armstrong won the award (for the 5th time) ahead of Cunego in 2004. The Tour is simply more important than anything else.

It is perhaps better now than in the Armstrong era where Giro was still the Italian stage race championship, and vuelta was ditto for Spanniards plus riders that crashed out of the Tour. and in both cases if Spain or Italy had a Tour contender even he sometimes decided to ditch his home GT in favour of going to be beaten by Lance Armstrong in the Tour.
But still yes, you have to ignore how massive the Tour is to even have this conversation.

 

[Red Rick]

A reminder that Armstrong won the award (for the 5th time) ahead of Cunego in 2004. The Tour is simply more important than anything else.

Race values aren't so static that it's the same as nearly 20 years ago. The Giro and Vuelta have become more important to the international audience, even if they'll never match up to the Tour completely.

 

[Netserk]

The Giro winner has never won the award without also winning another GT.

 

[houtdffan]

A reminder that Armstrong won the award (for the 5th time) ahead of Cunego in 2004. The Tour is simply more important than anything else.

That was back in the dark "only the tour matters" days. Plus, that was his 6th

Today, the entire season matters. Which is why Vingegaard was not even a finalist last year

 

[tobydawq]

The Giro winner has never won the award without also winning another GT.

The Giro winner often doesn't participate in spring classics. So then there only is Lombardia and Worlds left. And Cunego is the only rider to have won one of these in the same year as the Giro this century.