Velo d’Or 2023

[Krzysztof_O]

I mean, he already gave away last year's TdF to Vingegaard when he could have easily won himself.

Yup. He easily dropped Pog on Hautacam and then his DS told him it will be too much if he drops Vinge as well.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Pogacar is the best one day racer in the world

It's just a shame that he can't prove that at the WCC, because that race doesn't matter according to you, as it is not one of the important one day races on the calendar.

 

[topcat]

Neck and neck in the Remco vs Roglic popularity contest (by votes anyway). My OP was one of my rare objective serious posts but I’m glad to see others have taken the opportunity to have their little schoolgirl fights. May the best girl win.

 

[Riek s]

It's just a shame that he can't prove that at the WCC, because that race doesn't matter according to you, as it is not one of the important one day races on the calendar.

Pog confirmed that he would ride the WCC RR and ITT. The parcour should suit him a little bit with the short bursty efforts.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I think we are very spoiled to have so many worthy contenders. Even if the season ended today, IMO the winner would be worthy. That winner would be Vingegaard, even though I am not much of a fan, for crushing the competition in the biggest race of the year, plus winning a couple big weeklong stage races.

This has all been said before, but I’d rate their chances as:

1. Vingegaard: Could win even if he doesn’t win anything else, depending on what others do. A Vuelta win secures it for him.
2. Roglic: A Vuelta win and he likely wins it, IMO. If he wins Lombardia, it is done and dusted.
3. Remco: Not unthinkable that he could win the Vuelta, WCRR, and WCITT, which would make him a clear winner, IMO. Though scenario 1 or 2 above is more likely, so I put him lower.
4. Pogacar: If he’d pulled off LBL over Remco and the Tour over Vingegaard, he could be on track for the greatest season ever. But he crashed and he didn’t, and now the road is tough. No more GT opportunity, so he will have to win on his classics palmares. He only has 1 monument this year, so he’d have to win WCRR to have a shot, and I don’t think he will win even in that scenario.
5. MVDP: MSR and PR is a massive season, and WCRR might get him there. That would be a crazy season, but I think he had the toughest odds.

 

[houtdffan]

I think they just didn't want Di Luca on the list, IIRC he was implicated in some doping scandal which somehow didn't lose him the Giro but did get him a really short ban but he got sorta blacklisted as he moved down to a pro conti team a year later.

Cancellara's 2007 case is super weak as well, basically nothing aside from WC ITT and 2 TdF stages. Bettini basically only WC, so nobody apart from Di Luca had a good case in 2007.

Meanwhile Cancellara getting 2nd in 2008 over Sastre is weird to me as well.

Nobody seemed to count his tour win, since that was due to a Patrice Clerc meltdown over Armstrong/Bruyneel having 2 riders on the podium the year before. That team had no chance to be allowed to ride the tour until Marie Amary fired Clerc

 

[Blanco]

I disagree, he did feel like the best rider in the world in 2019.

First he won MSR after beating Sagan in the sprint, then he came to TdF and won an ITT and finished 2nd on Tourmalet. It was so ridiculous it made me angry at the time. Little did I know about what Van Aert or Pogacar would be capable of doing a few years later but it was still ridiculous at the time.

For me in 2019. it was Roglic

 

[gregrowlerson]

Pog so far. He is the only rider to have podiumed a GT and a monument so far, and his monument win is fairly non GT rider friendly.

His 2nd at the Tour is arguably better than Roglic' Giro win, plus he has a 4th in MSR and win in PN.

 

[Blanco]

As it stands Pogacar is in poll position, with the exceptional combination of three classics and a second place in the Tour. Of course it's way too early for a final decision.

As it stands, Pogacar is in a worst position, cause he won't win the worlds, and even if he does win Lombardia it won't bring him Velo d'Or, cause some of these "monsters" will win the worlds and Vuelta.

 

[Blanco]

Pog so far. He is the only rider to have podiumed a GT and a monument so far, and his monument win is fairly non GT rider friendly.

His 2nd at the Tour is arguably better than Roglic' Giro win, plus he has a 4th in MSR and win in PN.

2nd in the Tour should never be better than Giro win.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I also don't understand people who think Pogacar is in pole position. He has won one monument and two classics. He podium'ed the Tour. It might have been enough to edge out Alaphilippe in 2019, but against 4 guys who still have major goals coming up and also have one or two monuments, or an actual GT win already, i'm not seeing how he takes it. At least one of those other contenders is still going to score big, most likely.

 

[topcat]

One would expect one of Vingo, Remco or Rog to win the Vuelta (if Rog wins and Vingo podiums we’ll have a big argument). Remco would need something more (like the WRR or WTT). MVDP is the favourite for the wrr (if he wins, that would be a superb season but may not be enough). One would expect Pog to not win the wrr and to win lombardia, but very likely that won’t be enough.

 

[Red Rick]

I also don't understand people who think Pogacar is in pole position. He has won one monument and two classics. He podium'ed the Tour. It might have been enough to edge out Alaphilippe in 2019, but against 4 guys who still have major goals coming up and also have one or two monuments, or an actual GT win already, i'm not seeing how he takes it. At least one of those other contenders is still going to score big, most likely.

It's more about the standout moment of being a TdF winner winning RvV + some bonus credit for the hampered Tour prep.

 

[dercuforever]

Van Aert beating Pog last year kinda proves the point innit?

I think Pog winning Vlaanderen will weigh much more heavily than Lombardia, and I also think Vingegaard winning a bunch in the early season will get easily forgotten.

If not for Remco, Pog would have won it. Or someone else.
Wout was the best suited rider for the silver medal. 2022 was really a year full of 2 for him.

For 2023, I'd say Pogacar has an edge for now, with an incredible spring, winning RVV, FW, AGR and PN and a strong showing at MSR.
He lost the Tour, but 2nd there is worth a lot.

Lot of big races yet to separate riders, which I'd rank as :
1 Vuelta win / WRR
2 Lombardia
3 W-ITT / Vuelta 2 and 3
4 Quebec / Montréal / EuRR / EuITT / Bretagne classic

Rest probably won't matter unless someone win tons of stages.

 

[Riek s]

One would expect one of Vingo, Remco or Rog to win the Vuelta (if Rog wins and Vingo podiums we’ll have a big argument). Remco would need something more (like the WRR or WTT). MVDP is the favourite for the wrr (if he wins, that would be a superb season but may not be enough). One would expect Pog to not win the wrr and to win lombardia, but very likely that won’t be enough.

I think the way a rider wins something also matters. If Ving podiums the Vuelta it is for him. He won 2 stages races + tour in dominating fashion.

Roglic barely won 2 stages races and Giro. There was no dominance at all. So I think if it if becomes 'contested' the choice will go to the more dominating rider.

Lot of big races yet to separate riders, which I'd rank as :
1 Vuelta win / WRR
2 Lombardia
3 W-ITT / Vuelta 2 and 3
4 Quebec / Montréal / EuRR / EuITT / Bretagne classic

Rest probably won't matter unless someone win tons of stages.

I wouldn't rule out that winning the RR and ITT in the worlds would be >>> for this award. (world is always rated very high here and combine that with two disciplines which i think nobody ever did before? (where the WC ITT alone probably doesn't really matter for this award :'))

 

[dercuforever]

As it stands, Pogacar is in a worst position, cause he won't win the worlds, and even if he does win Lombardia it won't bring him Velo d'Or, cause some of these "monsters" will win the worlds and Vuelta.

Did you check the world route ?
50% of the peloton will fall or get stuck behind motos/cars. It is in Glasgow so it will rain, roads are twisty and narrow so gps will be all over the place. Only 5km from finish we'll realize Asgreen, Senechal and some GB rider were still in the lead with 3 minutes over the favorites.

And of course in the Vuelta, Thomas will win after Vingegaard and Remco eventually drop camera motos, take a wrong turn and lose 10 minutes in the process.

 

[KZD]

As it stands, Pogacar is in a worst position, cause he won't win the worlds, and even if he does win Lombardia it won't bring him Velo d'Or, cause some of these "monsters" will win the worlds and Vuelta.

While I think Pogačar is not likely to win Worlds, he still has a small chance of doing it as the course is not flat.

Still assuming you are right, if Pogačar wins Lombardia at the end of the season, he would have won two monuments, second at the Tour, two historical World Tour classics plus Paris-Nice. Unless Vingegård wins the Vuelta he would be a strong candidate

 

[gregrowlerson]

It's more about the standout moment of being a TdF winner winning RvV + some bonus credit for the hampered Tour prep.

I think the manner in which he won RVV is a big deal, defeating one of the best one day racers in the world on his favourite terrain (at least on the 'road').

Outside of the top 9 achievements in the sport (of which no rider apart from MVDP - who needs a little more depth to his road season imo - has more than one....yet) Pogacar has a stack of accolades in the 2nd or at least 3rd group of achievements with 2nd at Tour, winning PN, winning AG & FW (which I'd forgotten about).

Currently I'd rank it:
Pogacar
Vingegaard
MVDP
Roglic
Remco

But it's all pretty close.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's more about the standout moment of being a TdF winner winning RvV + some bonus credit for the hampered Tour prep.

Sure, but they already gave him Velo d'Or for winning the TdF, and he didn't win it this year.
To me, for the moment (and obviously things could change over the next 50 or so days) it would be:

Vingegaard > Roglic > Pogachar/MvdP/Evenepoel

I think Pog's chances to win the WCC are significantly lower than those of Evenepoel and Van der Poel. Imho best he can hope for is Lombardia, but i doubt that'd be enough. Imho, only Evenepoel and Roglic can leapfrog Vingegaard with races still on the calendar. Van der Poel does have 2 monuments, but he has no other wins of value. Imho even a WCC would not be enough for him. Evenepoel's in business if he wins the Vuelta. But even (same as Van der Poel) if he wins WCC and Lombardia, it wouldn't be enough without the Vuelta. If Roglic wins Vuelta or Lombardia, without Vingegaard winning the other, would also give him a strong case.

 

[Valanga]

I think the manner in which he won RVV is a big deal, defeating one of the best one day racers in the world on his favourite terrain (at least on the 'road').

Outside of the top 9 achievements in the sport (of which no rider apart from MVDP - who needs a little more depth to his road season imo - has more than one....yet) Pogacar has a stack of accolades in the 2nd or at least 3rd group of achievements with 2nd at Tour, winning PN, winning AG & FW (which I'd forgotten about).

Currently I'd rank it:
Pogacar
Vingegaard
MVDP
Roglic
Remco

But it's all pretty close.

I think the manner in which Vingegaard won Tdf is a big deal as well, defeating one of the best GT racers in the world on his favourite terrain.

He completely annihilated Pogacar and all the rest. Won by the biggest margin since Nibali, (or Ullrich before).
And I don't buy the "hampered preparation" excuse. Sure it was sub-optimal, but it was "just" a wrist fracture...

Even if he doesn't win anything else this season and Roglic goes on to win the Vuelta, I'd still give it to Vingegaard.
His win was just that phenomenal.

 

[SHAD0W93]

In the sprit of a Vino/other option and no matter how unlikely it is to happen (0.01%) Almeida is a dark horse if by some miracle he wins Worlds RR and TT while following up with winning the Vuelta. We’ve seen a crazy season and this would be the extremely huge cherry on top of it.

 

[Netserk]

To me, for the moment (and obviously things could change over the next 50 or so days) it would be:

Vingegaard > Roglic > Pogachar/MvdP/Evenepoel

Evenepoel equal with Pogi presently?! Are you out of your mind???

Ronde > Liège
Amstel > Klasikoa
P-N > UAE
Flèche > Nationals

That’s not even counting his Tour. And the fact that he was an unstoppable force in the spring until a crash of a rider in front of him (thanks to which Evenepoel could win Liège) took him out.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Evenepoel equal with Pogi presently?! Are you out of your mind???

Ronde > Liège
Amstel > Klasikoa
P-N > UAE
Flèche > Nationals

That’s not even counting his Tour. And the fact that he was an unstoppable force in the spring until a crash of a rider in front of him (thanks to which Evenepoel could win Liège) took him out.

Its not even close to being close if you look at the seasons the two have had so far.

Let me play your game:

Ronde > Liege, relatively narrow, but Ronde is a bigger/harder race in general IMO, especially this year. Beating Van der Poel like this is something that very few riders in history could've done.

Amstel > Klasika same as above. Startlist wasn't at all great in either of the two races.

PN >>> UAE prestige is not even close, and the start list wasn't even close. Beating Vingegaard so easily and 3 stages in route to overall is infinitely more valuable than the desert race, even if WT.

Fleche >>> Nationals, again not close in prestige at all. I don't value NC's high at all compared to a classic victory in Fleche, even though it's prestige is questionable as we speak.

Tour >>>>> Giro. Same amount as stage victories, but 2nd overall and giving a great fight for +2 weeks despite hampered prep. Again, not at all close.

Its madness. So far, Remco has the 'worst' season, but the highest potential of really meaningfull races on his calender.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Its not even close to being close if you look at the seasons the two have had so far.

Let me play your game:

Ronde > Liege, relatively narrow, but Ronde is a bigger/harder race in general IMO, especially this year. Beating Van der Poel like this is something that very few riders in history could've done.

Amstel > Klasika same as above. Startlist wasn't at all great in either of the two races.

PN >>> UAE prestige is not even close, and the start list wasn't even close. Beating Vingegaard so easily and 3 stages in route to overall is infinitely more valuable than the desert race, even if WT.

Fleche >>> Nationals, again not close in prestige at all. I don't value NC's high at all compared to a classic victory in Fleche, even though it's prestige is questionable as we speak.

Tour >>>>> Giro. Same amount as stage victories, but 2nd overall and giving a great fight for +2 weeks despite hampered prep. Again, not at all close.

Its madness. So far, Remco has the 'worst' season, but the highest potential of really meaningfull races on his calender.

I agree with all but the last. No way 2nd in Tour is >>>>> than winning the Giro. Pogacar was over 7 minutes back, and history doesn’t care about second. “The second place is no good,” as someone once said. And if you’re going to pull in context, then you’d have to add that Roglic one despite surgery during the off-season, being written off, and crashing hard and needing stitches in his hip before they hit the mountains.

Edit: I think you meant Pogi’s Tour >>>>> Remco’s Giro.

 

[tobydawq]

Its not even close to being close if you look at the seasons the two have had so far.

Let me play your game:

Ronde > Liege, relatively narrow, but Ronde is a bigger/harder race in general IMO, especially this year. Beating Van der Poel like this is something that very few riders in history could've done.

Amstel > Klasika same as above. Startlist wasn't at all great in either of the two races.

PN >>> UAE prestige is not even close, and the start list wasn't even close. Beating Vingegaard so easily and 3 stages in route to overall is infinitely more valuable than the desert race, even if WT.

Fleche >>> Nationals, again not close in prestige at all. I don't value NC's high at all compared to a classic victory in Fleche, even though it's prestige is questionable as we speak.

Tour >>>>> Giro. Same amount as stage victories, but 2nd overall and giving a great fight for +2 weeks despite hampered prep. Again, not at all close.

Its madness. So far, Remco has the 'worst' season, but the highest potential of really meaningfull races on his calender.

How can you not rate a Belgian national title...?

It's not like he is from Curaçao..


Edit: That's not to say that I don't agree that Pogacar has of course had a much better season than Remco. I can only assume that Logic was joking.