Versus: "Armstrong countering sniper attacks by the Spaniard"

[El Imbatido]

Sorry if this has already been done but i tried skimming through some of the Armstrong topics already but couldn't find anything.

Versus journalist Joe Parkin has released his latest "In the Know" article the other day:

http://www.versus.com/nw/article/view/84907/?UserDef=true&catID=3365&tf=joe_parkin.tpl

The thing that got the most going about the article was this:

The war of words between Armstrong and Contador saturated the cycling media after the Tour de France, and primarily saw Armstrong countering sniper attacks by the Spaniard.

Since when did Conatdor snipe at Armstrong? The only things i've heard from him are:

'I respect Armstrong as a cyclist but that is it' and

'I had to buy my own wheels for the TT'

How could he as someone who is paid to bring the world and fans alike proper factual news stories write something so blatently wrong? So now the whole of America is reading garbage about Alberto Contador starting some huge war on words and Lance Armstrong being some sort of saviour with his new radioshack team. He doesn't even mention that Lance basically tried to take over Astana which already has a designated team leader ie. the best cyclist in the world: Contador - which is where i believe it all started as Contador wouldn't lay down and just let Lance try and relive the old days.

Sorry for the rant. Just had to get that off my chest. Im not usually this angry or vocal but something had to be said. Maybe this should have been put in the "Plea for journalistic integrity in 2010 topic" but it is here now.

Your views please.....

 

[Ferminal]

It was quoted a bit in this thread, but please go on.

 

[JayZee]

More evidence that the Clinic has now become the (Mostly Anti) Armstrong Forum. If you want to discuss how Armstrong is the devil incarnate, this is the place. This has nothing to do with doping in cycling (except the fact that both Armstrong and Contador are professional cyclist and therefore are or have been dopers).

 

[Race Radio]

More evidence that the Clinic has now become the (Mostly Anti) Armstrong Forum. If you want to discuss how Armstrong is the devil incarnate, this is the place. This has nothing to do with doping in cycling (except the fact that both Armstrong and Contador are professional cyclist and therefore are or have been dopers).

For years some in the media have ignored the mountains of evidence that Armstrong is a doper. That Parkin ignored reality to write such garbage is just another example of how some in the media are willing to perpetuate the myth in order to guarantee access.

 

[gregod]

More evidence that the Clinic has now become the (Mostly Anti) Armstrong Forum. If you want to discuss how Armstrong is the devil incarnate, this is the place. This has nothing to do with doping in cycling (except the fact that both Armstrong and Contador are professional cyclist and therefore are or have been dopers).

I kind of agree that this would probably be better in the professional road forum. Although, perhaps there should be a separate forum just for the Texan since there seems to be an inordinate number of threads related to him. That way the people who love him and those who love to hate him can go at it and others, like myself, can avoid getting sucked in to reading about or discussing him.

As to the original topic, I wonder if any of the radioshack boss's fans that populate this forum think that Contador deserves the shabby treatment he has gotten from his former teammate. In my opinion, most if not all of the negativity has been instigated by Bruyneel's protoge.

 

[Anonymous]

I moved my response back to A Plea. I had posted this same info there and at the Who Do You Trust threads yesterday. Sorry

 

[BikeCentric]

More evidence that the Clinic has now become the (Mostly Anti) Armstrong Forum. If you want to discuss how Armstrong is the devil incarnate, this is the place. This has nothing to do with doping in cycling (except the fact that both Armstrong and Contador are professional cyclist and therefore are or have been dopers).

This thread is about a clearly factually biased article by Joe Parkin. Here's another silly spun quote from the article: "For Lance Armstrong, however, Contador’s new diplomatic tone might to be too little, too late." Oh yes, I'm SURE LA is the aggreived victim in this dispute. Sarcasm aside, this is a bipolar debate between 2 of the largest figures in the sport and it's natural that people are going to take sides. I've taken mine and you've taken yours so no need to paint an entire forum in a negative light just because the majority disagrees with your stance.

Now the forest for the trees here is that Parkin (author of the excellent book "A Dog in a Hat") has clearly sold out. He's writing a biased column for Versus that is clearly designed to play up dispute between Lance and Contador. And it's also spun to make Armstrong look good and Berto look bad for a home town American audience. This is just another example of corporate money encouraging bad journalism - can't let the facts get in the way of the profits now can we?

 

[pmcg76]

I agree this should stay in the racing section as its not related to doping and is already being discussed.

Close the thread already.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I won't close it, but will move it.

Susan

 

[fatandfast]

Parkin is a hack

 

[pmcg76]

The first sniper attack last year was Lances twitter on Contador "having a lot to learn". He continued to twitter right through the Tour, "not team tactics" etc. The thing with twitter is those twitters were not in response to questions. The first time Contador said anything in response was that post Tour interview and I am sure he was replying to a direct question that everybody knew was obvious. Spin, spin, spin Joe Parkin, no more respect.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

The first sniper attack last year was Lances twitter on Contador "having a lot to learn". He continued to twitter right through the Tour, "not team tactics" etc. The thing with twitter is those twitters were not in response to questions. The first time Contador said anything in response was that post Tour interview and I am sure he was replying to a direct question that everybody knew was obvious. Spin, spin, spin Joe Parkin, no more respect.

AC started as soon as it was confirmed LA would ride with Astanta. He first said he would welcome LA, but quickly changed his tune when it was confirmed. He actually threatened to quit. Lance's critics seem to forget this happened.

Link

 

[Race Radio]

AC started as soon as it was confirmed LA would ride with Astanta. He first said he would welcome LA, but quickly changed his tune when it was confirmed. He actually threatened to quit. Lance's critics seem to forget this happened.

Link

Most would agree that it would have been a smart thing for AC to have ridden for another team this year.

From your link

“It would be quite complicated. I think I’ve earned the right to be the leader of a team without having to fight for it,” he said in the interview published Tuesday. “And with Armstrong, there could be difficult situations in which the team would put him first and that would harm me.”

This is exactly what happened. His comments about Levi were spot on. Levi was supposed to work but rode his own race.

 

[Publicus]

AC started as soon as it was confirmed LA would ride with Astanta. He first said he would welcome LA, but quickly changed his tune when it was confirmed. He actually threatened to quit. Lance's critics seem to forget this happened.

Link

How is that a snipe at Lance? Sounds more like foresight to me than anything else.

Here are two quotes:

“It would be quite complicated. I think I’ve earned the right to be the leader of a team without having to fight for it,” he said in the interview published Tuesday. “And with Armstrong, there could be difficult situations in which the team would put him first and that would harm me.

“I will base my decision on what he says,” the Spaniard said. “I intend to stay because I am under contract until 2010, but I have received a good many offers from other teams.

“Bruyneel believes I can deliver results, but it can’t be denied that he made his name because of his ties to Armstrong.”

Ok so which one of these are snipes or AC starting something with Lance?

 

[pmcg76]

Having read the link, I wouldnt say that was a personal attack on Lance, he never criticised Lance, just questioned if he Contador, would have full support from the team if Lance was around. I think he was genuinely concerned and with hindsight Contador was spot on in his assessment of the situation.

 

[hfer07]

Versus-being an American company has been & always will be PRO LANCE. I recall last year all the trash that Phil Liggett said about Alberto "not being a team player" & "the Lack of intelligence of his part to put a team together", like LA & JB just have done it- And know we know that AC likes to act not to talk and at the end they got to bite their tongues for that.
I wonder what Phil/Paul would say if Brad Wiggins & Sky star a riff against LA/JB/Radio shack this coming TDF? will they "break"their contracts to cheer for their beloved compatriots?

 

[BYOP88]

Having read the link, I wouldnt say that was a personal attack on Lance, he never criticised Lance, just questioned if he Contador, would have full support from the team if Lance was around. I think he was genuinely concerned and with hindsight Contador was spot on in his assessment of the situation.

Contador seems a pretty clued up chap. BTW can someone remind who it was that called Contador "dumb" I think it was Liggett but can't remember if it was him or another one of Lance's media cronies.


EDIT: from the post above it seems it was Liggett.

 

[fatandfast]

What we can all learn is that now and throughout history there have been very few English speaking cycling greats(by the numbers) Liggett,Tecsh and all the other mouth pieces think that being an English speaker makes you smarter than somebody your competing against. Contador doesn't need to learn anything. Tyler Farrar getting beat in most big sprints and what a cool guy Vandevelde is as he is going out the back is BS. Cover the best riders not only guys you can do lots of fluffy interviews with, Levi is a little troll. Horner is done already. VS,VN and the rest should cover the racers that are the best not go on some nationalist rants while the race is being won by somebody else. More Contador and less LanceSkywigs. Cover the winner.

 

[pmcg76]

I guess this whole debate is a reflection of the internet age. I dont think we would have been getting all upset about a pro-American article from a US media outlet 20/30 years ago as it would have hardly reached Europe/Australia etc. With the internet we can now access news etc from anywhere in the world so we can see all the rubbish national favortism, not just in the US but everywhere.

I know when when Liggett/Sherwan commnetated on Channel 4 in the UK they have been biased towards the Englsih speaking riders. Now they are pandering to the US market so thats natural but they do seem to have got worse with time judging by what people on here are posting.

After all Sherwan was the PR guy at Motorola and they were the only English speaking team for years so what can we expect. Ligget/Sherwan have always had their heads in the sand about doping and are commentators for the uninformed masses, selling them the sport and are good at that, personally I prefer Eurosport as they are more geared to the knowledgable fan.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Having read the link, I wouldnt say that was a personal attack on Lance, he never criticised Lance, just questioned if he Contador, would have full support from the team if Lance was around. I think he was genuinely concerned and with hindsight Contador was spot on in his assessment of the situation.

He also said he discovered through the media that Lance would be coming back after that was a done deal, not from Bruyneel (or Lance). Neither one apparently felt they owed Contador a courtesy call, let alone a proper sit-down to discuss the implications.

It doesn't take a managing genius to figure out that that might set your #1 rider on edge, and rightly so. It shows immediately that his position is not respected, and games are being played behind his back.

I think Contador is quite an emotional rider, but the classy bit is how he settles his frustration. On the road (sweet route for the better rider), and with restraint when prodded for reactions. In the last interview he didn't even bother to address Lance or Shack when questioned directly about Lance's heel snapping during his end of year interviews, but deflected that to talking about his own preparation, and the state of his own team.

And nothing is as infuriating to trolling as not getting a rise at all. Brilliant. Right now he's beating Lance on and off the road.

 

[Francois the Postman]

What we can all learn is that now and throughout history there have been very few English speaking cycling greats(by the numbers) Liggett,Tecsh and all the other mouth pieces think that being an English speaker makes you smarter than somebody your competing against. Contador doesn't need to learn anything. Tyler Farrar getting beat in most big sprints and what a cool guy Vandevelde is as he is going out the back is BS. Cover the best riders not only guys you can do lots of fluffy interviews with, Levi is a little troll. Horner is done already. VS,VN and the rest should cover the racers that are the best not go on some nationalist rants while the race is being won by somebody else. More Contador and less LanceSkywigs. Cover the winner.

There's probably quite a few people here who are able, and have, watched the same race broadcasts in different languages.

More often than not, it's like watching a totally different race, as each nation has its own (audience) focus on what's going on, and can be oblivious to going-ons that fascinate their colleagues in the booth next door.

I actually enjoy doing that. I find the different viewpoints, and thus emotional responses to the same event, quite interesting.

But if you have a race in which a real contender doesn't even get mentioned until over half an hour into the broadcast, you can only be watching a broadcast in English.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not upset about a pro-American article, but because there's what appear to be a concerted effort right now to revise history. I'm still not sure why Juliet Macur stepped away from pre-Olympic coverage to write a New Year's story about LA. But he and Bruyneel are working their way through European countries - the latest was a video on NOS where he says Pierre Bordry is trying to use him to kill cycling (link below). Then there was the Examiner piece about the French witch hunters, even though there had been no doping news in a couple of weeks. Now the Versus guy. And I only see the stuff that pops up in a Google News search for Contador. LA zealots love to accuse people of being conspiracy theorists - I got hit with it after linking to the original Mørkeberg article. But there's a LOT of misinformation going out there right now. Astana is being investigated by a French police agency designed to protect the public health. The UCI doesn't want the AFLD anywhere near the Tour next year. So why would Armstrong start a public assault to discredit Bordry? And why can't he just enjoy his new team, the new season, the baby, etc. without attacking Contador? Expect lots more of the same, and keep mental track of when and where you see it. It isn't random any more, and there are lots of casual news readers believing the lies.

http://www.wielertom.com/?p=333

Lance Armstrong has sharply critisised Pierre Bordry, president of the French anti-doping organisation AFLD, claiming that he wants to kill the sport of cycling. “They don’t want to hang me, they want to hang cycling. They realized that if they hang me, they’ve hung cycling. I see it as a pursuit of our sport. I mean [Pierre] Bordry, I don’t know anything about him, but he has it out for cycling and he knows that I’m the quickest way to get that sport. But that won’t work”, Armstrong said in a documentary by Mart Smeets for Dutch television NOS.

 

[racerralph]

AC started as soon as it was confirmed LA would ride with Astanta. He first said he would welcome LA, but quickly changed his tune when it was confirmed. He actually threatened to quit. Lance's critics seem to forget this happened.

Link

In regards to the link you provided.
Thank you for providing the fuel to light that argument on fire.
First off, when you read an article, you must go in with a critical eye.
This quote should have alerted you to the biased piece you were about to read:
"Alberto Contador, who won the Vuelta a España on Sunday, hinted he may quit the Astana team if it hires Lance Armstrong, who has announced he is coming out of retirement to seek a record eighth Tour de France title."
Who interpreted his comments as a "hint" that he might quit a team he was contracted to until 2010?(As he clearly states in a following "quote") He was never "quoted" as saying he was going to quit. That was pure speculation by the writer, in an effort to stir up the drink.
Then the writer goes on to proclaim that LA has "announced" he is coming back to seek an 8th TdF title, days before LA was to give his official comeback announcement. Funny, that when he eventually gave that announcement, he did not claim he was coming back to seek his 8th TdF title, he purposefully was vague about that objective- Did you forget that?
Wasn't he supposed to be coming back to give more visibility to his Cancer fighting efforts?(besides being able to demand all that appearance loot he positioned himself to require of event organizers, as well as his autonomous position within the team, since he wasn't on the Astana payroll. Hence, he was answerable to no one.)
No, it seems to me that Alberto was quite prescient(for a kid who had a lot to learn) when he explained the situation that was about to unfold:
The Spaniard was asked by the sports newspaper AS how he would feel if the American joins Astana.
“It would be quite complicated. I think I’ve earned the right to be the leader of a team without having to fight for it,” he said in the interview published Tuesday. “And with Armstrong, there could be difficult situations in which the team would put him first and that would harm me.”
Please, tell me it didn't work out just like that.
AC tried to play it low key, but with the atmosphere electric, and writers trying their hardest to get provocative comments from him, I think he was very grounded, and thorough in his answers, in that interview.
That he was hampered throughout the 2009 TdF, of running the race the way he wanted to, being the best cyclist on the team, should be apparent to anyone but the most ignorant viewers, especially cycling enthusiasts, unless of course they are LA fanboys. And that's when the old saying comes into play: Love is Blind. And in the end, that's too bad, because I think the LA legions are about to be disappointed again this year. They better worry about all the other "snipers" they are going to encounter this year, besides AC.( Think those 38 yr. old legs will carry him through the Tour of California, Amstel, L-B-L, and the Tour of Flanders before he tries to strut his stuff on the Champs Elysees? Man, the $$$$$ must be flying his way this year!)
Dream on!

 

[fatandfast]

After reading the LA article I think Contador kept his eye on the prize. He could have "opened up" and and further complicated things. Alberto did what he came to do,win. Armstrong did what he came to do,put himself and his cancer cause back on the world stage. I think it's a pretty tricky thing to say that nobody can get away with doping for 18+ years,tricky and totally correct. The chance to catch him or any of his peers is over...unless they run out of cash and write a book about it. I give Ulrich another 5 or 8 and he will type out a real squeeler.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

To pmcg76, Race Radio, and Publicus....

It's not that I think AC was taking personal shots at LA, I think he has a certain level of insecurity (and maybe entitlement), and his comments contributed to some of the tension at Astana by immediately insuating he is the strongest rider. If he hadn't made those comments, I think there would have been less of a problem. Lance took it personally, which he shouldn't have done, and fired back by trying to belittle AC's skills in saying he had "lots to learn." At least, that's how I see it. Neither was the bigger man in this situation.