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Versus: "Armstrong countering sniper attacks by the Spaniard"

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ImmaculateKadence said:
AC started as soon as it was confirmed LA would ride with Astanta. He first said he would welcome LA, but quickly changed his tune when it was confirmed. He actually threatened to quit. Lance's critics seem to forget this happened.

Link

ImmaculateKadence said:
To pmcg76, Race Radio, and Publicus....

It's not that I think AC was taking personal shots at LA, I think he has a certain level of insecurity (and maybe entitlement), and his comments contributed to some of the tension at Astana by immediately insuating he is the strongest rider. If he hadn't made those comments, I think there would have been less of a problem. Lance took it personally, which he shouldn't have done, and fired back by trying to belittle AC's skills in saying he had "lots to learn." At least, that's how I see it. Neither was the bigger man in this situation.

Actually you did imply that. And it wasn't insecurity . . . he was reading the situation with a cold eye.

How does that follow? He said that the situation could become complicated with the team favoring Lance over AC. That's not critical of Lance. That's noting the potential problems/complications that could (and did) arise with Lance's return. I made the same observation, not because I was concerned that AC couldn't handle it, but because it was one of two or three possible outcomes of Lance's return.

Sorry, I think you are off-base here.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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ImmaculateKadence said:
To pmcg76, Race Radio, and Publicus....

It's not that I think AC was taking personal shots at LA, I think he has a certain level of insecurity (and maybe entitlement), and his comments contributed to some of the tension at Astana by immediately insuating he is the strongest rider. If he hadn't made those comments, I think there would have been less of a problem. Lance took it personally, which he shouldn't have done, and fired back by trying to belittle AC's skills in saying he had "lots to learn." At least, that's how I see it. Neither was the bigger man in this situation.

insecurity?

The same concerns were voiced repeatedly by fans, journalists, and riders. We all saw that his concerns turned out to be 100% valid.
 
ImmaculateKadence said:
To pmcg76, Race Radio, and Publicus....

It's not that I think AC was taking personal shots at LA, I think he has a certain level of insecurity (and maybe entitlement), and his comments contributed to some of the tension at Astana by immediately insuating he is the strongest rider. If he hadn't made those comments, I think there would have been less of a problem. Lance took it personally, which he shouldn't have done, and fired back by trying to belittle AC's skills in saying he had "lots to learn." At least, that's how I see it. Neither was the bigger man in this situation.

I think to see it that way you really have to want to see it that way. Contador didn't say or do anything that should have made anyone mad or that indeed wasn't entirely within his right to say. He raised legitimate questions about having 2 leaders in 1 team, briefly pondered leaving (also his right) and then (unlike Wiggins) stayed to honor his contract. Any slight has to be in the eye of the beholder.
 
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Francois the Postman said:
There's probably quite a few people here who are able, and have, watched the same race broadcasts in different languages.

More often than not, it's like watching a totally different race, as each nation has its own (audience) focus on what's going on, and can be oblivious to going-ons that fascinate their colleagues in the booth next door.

I actually enjoy doing that. I find the different viewpoints, and thus emotional responses to the same event, quite interesting.

But if you have a race in which a real contender doesn't even get mentioned until over half an hour into the broadcast, you can only be watching a broadcast in English.
I agree, almost 100%. Almost, because I enjoyed listening to the English audio from England, online, while watching a muted Versus, and they weren't as LA biased, which allowed me too watch, without going out of my mind listening to the Roll, Liggett, Sherwen & Hummer, pathetic quartet.
(though a slight time delay sometimes made the closing moments of a stage kind of hilarious, because I had already seen what the commentators were still announcing!:D)
But some of the Spanish audio was good too.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Contador doesn't even rate his name being mentioned in this specific instance? The Spaniard? Quite demeaning.

To make it more fair, Parkin should have written, "Trailer-trash Texan countering sniper attacks by the Spaniard."

:)
 
pmcg76 said:
I guess this whole debate is a reflection of the internet age. I dont think we would have been getting all upset about a pro-American article from a US media outlet 20/30 years ago as it would have hardly reached Europe/Australia etc. With the internet we can now access news etc from anywhere in the world so we can see all the rubbish national favortism, not just in the US but everywhere.

I know when when Liggett/Sherwan commnetated on Channel 4 in the UK they have been biased towards the Englsih speaking riders. Now they are pandering to the US market so thats natural but they do seem to have got worse with time judging by what people on here are posting.

After all Sherwan was the PR guy at Motorola and they were the only English speaking team for years so what can we expect. Ligget/Sherwan have always had their heads in the sand about doping and are commentators for the uninformed masses, selling them the sport and are good at that, personally I prefer Eurosport as they are more geared to the knowledgable fan.

I also prefer EuroSport. I've made reference many times on this forum that Liggett and Sherwin are on the Armstrong/lLivestrong payroll. They work for themselves and take a payment and say whats required of them. They are not independent commentators. Don't worry. I don't think Contador gives a s+it because he doesn't even know who they are!
 
ImmaculateKadence said:
To pmcg76, Race Radio, and Publicus....

It's not that I think AC was taking personal shots at LA, I think he has a certain level of insecurity (and maybe entitlement), and his comments contributed to some of the tension at Astana by immediately insuating he is the strongest rider. If he hadn't made those comments, I think there would have been less of a problem. Lance took it personally, which he shouldn't have done, and fired back by trying to belittle AC's skills in saying he had "lots to learn." At least, that's how I see it. Neither was the bigger man in this situation.

What Publicus, Race Radio said plus why would Contador insuate he was the best. He WAS the best stage racer in the world period but knew the relationship between Bruyneel/Contador might cause complications. If Astana wanted no tension, they should have never even considered taking Lance.

In an issue of ProCycling in 2008 before the Tour had even finished, they put a picture of Contador on the front with a caption, winner of the Tour 08 or something. What they were insuniating was that Contador would have wiped the floor with 08 Tour field if he had been there.
 
Francois the Postman said:
There's probably quite a few people here who are able, and have, watched the same race broadcasts in different languages.

More often than not, it's like watching a totally different race, as each nation has its own (audience) focus on what's going on, and can be oblivious to going-ons that fascinate their colleagues in the booth next door.

I actually enjoy doing that. I find the different viewpoints, and thus emotional responses to the same event, quite interesting.

But if you have a race in which a real contender doesn't even get mentioned until over half an hour into the broadcast, you can only be watching a broadcast in English.

I'm glad I'm one of those few-and even though if the 3 that I speak/understand just cannot get channels broadcasting the race in either one of them at all-I always have the MUTE option-So my attention is completely dedicated to the race- instead of the nonsense:):):)
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
I think to see it that way you really have to want to see it that way. Contador didn't say or do anything that should have made anyone mad or that indeed wasn't entirely within his right to say. He raised legitimate questions about having 2 leaders in 1 team, briefly pondered leaving (also his right) and then (unlike Wiggins) stayed to honor his contract. Any slight has to be in the eye of the beholder.

It really works both ways. Perception is reality.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Lots of us can still remember when racing coverage was on ABC and CBS. They would drone on about Nepolean and how only world wars had interrupted the races and then cut to some crap footage and then show the finish. You would see about 5 minutes of real racing. If you wanted to see the race you had to buy the 8 month old VHS tape from a bike shop for 50+ clams. If they ever want the sport to grow you have to show races and not explain what a peloton is or why people draft. Even dressage and monster trucks show more of the sport and don't focus on one person carrying the torch for the whole sport. I had hope that Alberto would have got more bling on the Spanish speaking stations and we could have watched better coverage of the winner instead of all these bunch shots of the pack fillers that VS shill for. TV is almost there I can watch the shows I want on a different day than their original air date. DVDs launched the same day as the movie hits theaters,it won't be long til we can get what we want when we want it,really on demand. Why is the porn industry so far ahead of cycling? I will donate a dollar to Livestrong if I can watch the race all the way through without a back story. They have an interview about Vaughters choice of clothes on another racing site . Viva Alberto
 
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UpTheRoad said:
Contador doesn't even rate his name being mentioned in this specific instance? The Spaniard? Quite demeaning.

To make it more fair, Parkin should have written, "Trailer-trash Texan countering sniper attacks by the Spaniard."

:)

parkins is a nobody trying to be somebody. he sealed the deal for me when he was talking about the ex-racer from oregon who died last year (forget the name) and he said something like he really didn't care for the guy but he respected him....or something like that.

i never heard of parkins until last year, or if i did the memory vanished.

ed rader
 
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erader said:
parkins is a nobody trying to be somebody. he sealed the deal for me when he was talking about the ex-racer from oregon who died last year (forget the name) and he said something like he really didn't care for the guy but he respected him....or something like that.

i never heard of parkins until last year, or if i did the memory vanished.

ed rader

Steve Larsen. wicked fast. Larsen could have used Parkin as a doormat in any cycling discipline
 
fatandfast said:
Lots of us can still remember when racing coverage was on ABC and CBS. They would drone on about Nepolean and how only world wars had interrupted the races and then cut to some crap footage and then show the finish. You would see about 5 minutes of real racing. If you wanted to see the race you had to buy the 8 month old VHS tape from a bike shop for 50+ clams. If they ever want the sport to grow you have to show races and not explain what a peloton is or why people draft. Even dressage and monster trucks show more of the sport and don't focus on one person carrying the torch for the whole sport. I had hope that Alberto would have got more bling on the Spanish speaking stations and we could have watched better coverage of the winner instead of all these bunch shots of the pack fillers that VS shill for. TV is almost there I can watch the shows I want on a different day than their original air date. DVDs launched the same day as the movie hits theaters,it won't be long til we can get what we want when we want it,really on demand. Why is the porn industry so far ahead of cycling? I will donate a dollar to Livestrong if I can watch the race all the way through without a back story. They have an interview about Vaughters choice of clothes on another racing site . Viva Alberto

We're getting OT but I totally agree with you. And all a sports channel has to do is show the last HOUR of a race if they are worried about dedicated several hours; that's when the majority of the drama goes down. I know most of us fans prefer watching the build-up so we can savor the last hour, but when you don't have much time or whatever you make sure to tune in for at least the last hour.

Some network needs to grow the balls to just suck it up and buy the feed for the last hour; let Phil and Paul do the commentating since they are good for a noob to the sport. That would grow the sport in the USA I guarantee it.
 
fatandfast said:
Steve Larsen. wicked fast. Larsen could have used Parkin as a doormat in any cycling discipline

Larsen is perhaps the 2nd best American mountain bike racer (to John Tomac) who ever lived. Maybe 3rd to Ned Overend. Larsen was a really really good cyclist. RIP Steve.
 
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Publicus said:
Actually you did imply that. And it wasn't insecurity . . . he was reading the situation with a cold eye.

How does that follow? He said that the situation could become complicated with the team favoring Lance over AC. That's not critical of Lance. That's noting the potential problems/complications that could (and did) arise with Lance's return. I made the same observation, not because I was concerned that AC couldn't handle it, but because it was one of two or three possible outcomes of Lance's return.

Sorry, I think you are off-base here.

100% correct.....you nailed it .........i would bet any poster put in a similar situation , as in an older champion taking fairly constant pot shots at them on a personal and professional level would not be able to demonstrate the shear class berto has displayed , at the age of 26.....i raced , and at a pretty high level,and frankly at 26 i had my head up my ***.......no way i personally would have been able to hold my space , and my tongue
 
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BikeCentric said:
Larsen is perhaps the 2nd best American mountain bike racer (to John Tomac) who ever lived. Maybe 3rd to Ned Overend. Larsen was a really really good cyclist. RIP Steve.
Where does Tinker fit in ?
 
I see some people have commented on the article on the versus site. I tried too but for some reason it didn't show up.


Mods: Sorry for placing this in the wrong forum but i was just thinking of where this thread was likely to go(ie. heated discussion about LA and doping) and so far it has been good with no insults and name calling etc.
 

Snake Bite

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Parkin nails a truth with this comment:

Lance Armstrong, in just about any other body would still be a world class – and most likely hugely successful – cyclist. My belief is that Alberto Contador wouldn’t.

I 100% agree with that.
 
Snake Bite said:
Parkin nails a truth with this comment:
I 100% agree with that.

Chum in the water! Chum in the water!

Ignore list has a new member.

But year, Parkin's right about one thing. You could put Armstrong in any other body, and he'd still be a world-class a$$hole.

Anyway, back on topic. Parkin's commenting just to the US audience. Versus makes their money from people who want to see Armstrong win. They want their hero. Most people don't really follow cycling, other a casual interest in what Lance does. They watch Versus not because they like the sport, but because they like Lance.
 
Snake Bite said:
Parkin nails a truth with this comment:



I 100% agree with that.

I thought that particular statement was just dumb, what is the point of it.

Lance wasnt anywhere near as successful as Contador by 25/26. He was a good but not outstanding pro at 25 showing no signs of greatness so it makes Parkins statement redundant, maybe we should wait another 10 years to pass judgement on Contador. Jeez, dont fall for the BS.
 

Snake Bite

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pmcg76 said:
Lance wasnt anywhere near as successful as Contador by 25/26.

But that's the point. He still managed to use that body to win 7 tours. If Contador had Armstrong's body, but his own head, I doubt he would win anything. Contador is a great talent - that's why he has won things from an early age - but he's not as smart and calculated as Armstrong.