Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Aug 16, 2011
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BlurryVII said:
That's where you're wrong, it was Gallopin who was in the Yellow jersey. Astana didn't have any duty to do, and they weren't pacing the peloton before alberto's crash ONCE. Only after the unfortunate crash, they slowly moved up and started increasing the pace. Nibali didn't want Alberto to come back easily in the peloton, he wanted him to waste energy, he knew he was going to take a huge blow on belles filles, that's it.
No, that's not it, not at all.

Nibali was the highest placed GC rider and everyone knew he would be back in yellow after that stage. So Astana were just doing the job they should have been doing. Nibali had a chance on the stage, they didn't want Kwiat to gain too much time (perfectly reasonable), and they couldn't let the break get too far up the road.

To say they were trying to get an advantage on Contador is just wrong. If they were trying to do this there would be a lot more talk about it on the forum, and there was very little.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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SafeBet said:
Who would want that? This is a bike race, not a charity event.
Well, if that's how you see things, good for you. At least you admit Astana purposely was willing to bury AC.

By my standards, you DON'T up the pace when the best climber is down.
Hell, even Lance Armstrong would wait if his main opponent was down.
 
1. Astana did not got ballistic when AC fell. They went to the frot of the peloton and kept a slow pace for atleast 10 minutes, before the upped the pace, and AC retired few min later. If AC wasn't injured he would have plent of time to get within 2 minutes of the peloton and catch back up

2. AC is not exactly known as the waiting type himself, so no moral high ground there amigos :eek:
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Afrank said:
No, that's not it, not at all.

Nibali was the highest placed GC rider and everyone knew he would be back in yellow after that stage. So Astana were just doing the job they should have been doing. Nibali had a chance on the stage, they didn't want Kwiat to gain too much time (perfectly reasonable), and they couldn't let the break get too far up the road.

To say they were trying to get an advantage on Contador is just wrong. If they were trying to do this there would be a lot more talk about it on the forum, and there was very little.
But you don't get the fact that Astana moved up EXACTLY when Alberto was down? Plus Nibali saw his crash. Don't you find it strange? And by the way, where is Kwiato in the standings right now?
 
BlurryVII said:
Well, if that's how you see things, good for you. At least you admit Astana purposely was willing to bury AC.

By my standards, you DON'T up the pace when the best climber is down.
Hell, even Lance Armstrong would wait if his main opponent was down.
But if the 4th best climber crashes can you up it or not? And if the 17th best crashes? Which is the line separating the worthy of a wait from the unworthy?

And this is completely ignoring Contador himself hasn't waited for riders when mechanical occurred. But maybe you can up the pace when the best climber in the race has a mechanical? Or maybe not? I'll need your full list of do and don't next time in going for a ride.


BTW, I'm also convinced Astana wasn't even close to ballistic after Alberto crashed. Hell they gained nothing on a rider with a broken tibia. But maybe Contador with a broken tibia is still better than a full train going ballistic. He was in the shape of his life afterall.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Vino attacks everyone said:
1. Astana did not got ballistic when AC fell. They went to the frot of the peloton and kept a slow pace for atleast 10 minutes, before the upped the pace, and AC retired few min later. If AC wasn't injured he would have plent of time to get within 2 minutes of the peloton and catch back up

2. AC is not exactly known as the waiting type himself, so no moral high ground there amigos :eek:
10 minutes? You crazy? We didn't watch the same race dude. I might as well just upload that stage on YT from cyclingtorrents, just to prove you how wrong you are

2. Oh really ? I bet AS story all over again? What happened in Spa during that same Tour, when road got very slippery and Andy crashed? Contador himself decided to stop the peloton to wait for him. But of course, nobody gives a sh*t about this, and nobody remember this episode.
 
BlurryVII said:
10 minutes? You crazy? We didn't watch the same race dude. I might as well just upload that stage on YT from cyclingtorrents, just to prove you how wrong you are

2. Oh really ? I bet AS story all over again? What happened in Spa during that same Tour, when road got very slippery and Andy crashed? Contador himself decided to stop the peloton to wait for him. But of course, nobody gives a sh*t about this, and nobody remember this episode.
1. they did not start drilling it until the downhill started, now I don't know how long that was exactly, but it was no immediate attack after his fall...

2. the stage Cancellara stopped?
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Vino attacks everyone said:
1. they did not start drilling it until the downhill started, now I don't know how long that was exactly, but it was no immediate attack after his fall...

2. the stage Cancellara stopped?
Think whatever you like, I know what I saw, they upped the pace after his crash, when Contador barely got on his bike and started to chase. That's where they didn't want him to get back easily.

2. Nope, it was Contador & Cancellara, not only Canci.
 
Cross posted from AC thred:


Quote:
Originally Posted by cineteq View Post
First time I hear this. I didn't see it that way, but hey you might be right.

"On yesterday's stage Kwiatkowski gained more than four minutes at one point and that's an example of what can happen. They're all well prepared to do well at the Tour. I'll never underestimate anyone. I did that at Vuelta (in 2013), we underestimated Horner, and he went on to win."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/niba...tour-de-france
 
Jun 21, 2010
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Some of the folks posting here, ironically titled the Nibali thread, would have preferred the Tour was cancelled at the the point Contador fell off his bike and then retired. It's almost like this year's results should be nullified because THEIR favorite rider crashed out. I could understand if they stopped paying attention to this year's Tour. I get annoyed when they continue to follow the race and post incessantly about how whoever the leader is couldnt possibly have beaten Contador, despite the fact that Nibali was ahead of Contador by 2:30 at the decisive crash moment.

Separately, crashes have played decisive roles in Tour outcomes since at least the 70s. Merckx versus Ocana and Armstrong versus Ullrich immediately come to mind. One could say the guy feeling the most pressure sometimes overcooks, or perhaps it is just bad luck. In those prior years where the crash determined the winner, there weren't the whiney obsessive posters like today, trying to tarnish a fine race result with their own asterisk.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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BlurryVII said:
But you don't get the fact that Astana moved up EXACTLY when Alberto was down? Plus Nibali saw his crash. Don't you find it strange? And by the way, where is Kwiato in the standings right now?
You know, cyclingnews has live coverage of their own on every stage. It's great because it provides a complete record of everything that is happening. Let's take a look shall we. :)

So, Contador crashes...
16:27:03 CEST
He is four minutes behind the main field. And he still has a problem with his shoes.
You are correct, Astana started setting the pace.
16:28:47 CEST
Contador is now with the team car. He's getting more help but still no teammates with him. Riis is looking very concerned as you would imagine as Contador climbs alone. Up ahead and Astana are setting the pace at the front of the yellow jersey group.
But the gap falls from 4 minutes to 3:30
16:32:25 CEST
Contador now has three men with him but the gap to the main field is at 3;30. It's coming down but slowly. Kwiatkowski though is riding into the yellow jersey.
And he keeps having to go back to the car for medial and mechanical support.
16:35:01 CEST
It looks like Contador is pulling back time though. He's back with the medical car one more time though.
Astana on the front by this point.
16:35:38 CEST
Meanwhile the entire Astana team are on the front of the peloton.
And yet, with Astana on the front and Contador keeping going back to the car, gap is still falling.
16:38:15 CEST
Contador is 2:30 down on the Nibali group.
Peloton riding tempo, not going ballistic.
16:41:04 CEST
The yellow jersey group are just riding tempo, 4:10 down and now Rodriguez and Voeckler attack. Rodriguez has too much for him and craetes a gap. He takes another ten points and stretches his lead in the KOM.
16:42:14 CEST
The main field are 1km from the top of the climb, Astana still riding tempo with Nibali looking comfortable.
Getting closer to his DNF now, surly he's starting to really hurt. And starts losing time. Astana had to at this point move to maintaining the gap to Kwiat.
16:42:52 CEST
Contador is now three minutes down on the yellow jersey group.
16:48:42 CEST
And he's losing more time. Contador is now at 3:43 behind the main field.
16:58:20 CEST
And it's 4'40. Contador is done, surely. He's almost nine minutes down on the lead group and now Contador is getting a pat on the back. He's about to stop.
16:59:32 CEST
And that's it. Contador has stopped and he's getting into the team car. It's all over and we lose another pre-race favourites. First Froome and now Alberto Contador.
And he's out. Slowed down in that last 10 minutes before his DNF. But it took over 10 minutes for the gap to start going out again from when he first crashes.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Afrank said:
And he's out. Slowed down in that last 10 minutes before his DNF. But it took over 10 minutes for the gap to start going out again from when he first crashes.
I was right, Astana setting the pace right after his crash so they can accelarate if he gets too close, Contador would have had a really hard time trying to get into the peloton even if he hadn't injured himself.

You didn't answer my second question? Where is Kwiato? You know the reason of Astana for incrasing the pace? 20 minutes from Nibali. Still Pyrenees ahead.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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maxmartin said:
sadly the voice of reason is still the deafness to the insanity.:eek:
That's pretty funny coming from the guy who immediately blamed Tinkoff Saxo for going full gas after VDB's crash :eek:

Hypocrisy is limitless these days :rolleyes:
 
Aug 16, 2011
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BlurryVII said:
I was right, Astana setting the pace right after his crash so they can accelarate if he gets too close, Contador would have had a really hard time trying to get into the peloton even if he hadn't injured himself.

You didn't answer my second question? Where is Kwiato? You know the reason of Astana for incrasing the pace? 20 minutes from Nibali. Still Pyrenees ahead.
They started setting the pace so they could accelerate and gain time if he got to close? :eek: Don't you think if they wanted to gain time they would have set a high pace from the start when he was 4 minutes back to make sure he didn't gain any time? Why wait until he's 2:30 to try to gain an advantage? Your really reaching now.

In answer to your question, Kwiat is nowhere. But when it comes to a 3 week race with lots of mountains still to come, you can never give any rider too much time.
To quote Carols and cineteq...
Carols said:
Cross posted from AC thred:


Quote:
Originally Posted by cineteq View Post
First time I hear this. I didn't see it that way, but hey you might be right.

"On yesterday's stage Kwiatkowski gained more than four minutes at one point and that's an example of what can happen. They're all well prepared to do well at the Tour. I'll never underestimate anyone. I did that at Vuelta (in 2013), we underestimated Horner, and he went on to win."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/niba...tour-de-france
 
May 19, 2011
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BlurryVII said:
That's pretty funny coming from the guy who immediately blamed Tinkoff Saxo for going full gas after VDB's crash :eek:

Hypocrisy is limitless these days :rolleyes:
when did VDB crash? and what did I say? Find that post? Wow, you are just randomly accusing people. I don't have energy to argue with you at such low level full of illogical and vivid imagination. Peace out.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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maxmartin said:
when did VDB crash? and what did I say? Find that post? Wow, you are a lunatic just randomly accusing people. I don't have energy to argue with you at such low level full of illogical and vivid imagination. Peace out.
Oops! Sorry, it was TVG, Here is what you said :
"all I am saying timing is suspicious, it is not like they are pushing the pace all along, they just started pushing pace immediately after TJVG crashed" That's what you said, about Tinkoff saxo.
You thought Alberto wanted to get rid of TVG, but yah, he is such a threat for him in the mountains :eek:
Now you defending Astana for the same acts, but I understand your subjectivity/hypocrisy, Nibali is the leader of that team afterall :rolleyes:

Edit: Aw, how cute is that? You deleted your last post, you knew you were wrong? :)
 
Jan 24, 2012
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BlurryVII said:
Oops! Sorry, it was TVG, Here is what you said :
"all I am saying timing is suspicious, it is not like they are pushing the pace all along, they just started pushing pace immediately after TJVG crashed" That's what you said, about Tinkoff saxo.
You thought Alberto wanted to get rid of TVG, but yah, he is such a threat for him in the mountains :eek:
Now you defending Astana for the same acts, but I understand your subjectivity/hypocrisy, Nibali is the leader of that team afterall :rolleyes:

Edit: Aw, how cute is that? You deleted your last post, you knew you were wrong? :)
The guy has been trolling/baiting hard since the TdF started, may as well ignore his posts.
 
Quick question. Why, based on this season, would anybody doubt his ability to beat Froome? Froome hasn't been impressive at all this year. I would have thought it's a given based on his current form that he'd beat Froome.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Afrank said:
They started setting the pace so they could accelerate and gain time if he got to close? :eek: Don't you think if they wanted to gain time they would have set a high pace from the start when he was 4 minutes back to make sure he didn't gain any time? Why wait until he's 2:30 to try to gain an advantage? Your really reaching now.

In answer to your question, Kwiat is nowhere. But when it comes to a 3 week race with lots of mountains still to come, you can never give any rider too much time.
To quote Carols and cineteq...
Yep, Kwiato is known for his ability to climb with the best in a 3 weeks mounteneous race. Can we stop already?
 

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