Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

LOL

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Personally, I think Nibalis style of attacking on downhill is pretty desperate. Hes very adept at it but it's designed to put other riders who have more to lose in danger.

If they fall because there (they're) outside of there comfort zone then he does not give a ****, and that's nothing to be proud of in my book.

Others think it's all part of the game but my interest is in a riders physical abilities on a man to man battle going uphill.

I completely disagree. You are forgetting that he is getting to the top with them (his ability to battle going uphill) otherwise he couldn't get them out of their comfort zone on the descent. A GT winner should be the best at all aspects of racing over 20ish days.

Another important point is, that your physical condition has a big impact on how well you decend.

A rider crossing the top blown up, will never catch anyone going downhill.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Merckx also won five Tours because Ocana crashed out, but that was hardly a win of strength.

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

Kruijs had exactly 41 seconds on Nibali when he started shitting, hardly much stronger, don't you think? But that poor Dutch chap started to belive, like you, that he is so much stronger after the TT disaster and with a pink jersey on his shoulders for the first time in his life. In fact he declared that he had no weaknesses. Juat like you, he thought he was the strongest. And then when the shark got out of the toilet and put some pressure on him on Agnello, the pink jersey started breathing heavily at 2700m, still thinking he has no weaknesses he thought he could follow the shark until a snowwall appeared from the fog in front of his surprised eyes. The shark's tale ends on Risoul where in 3 km he put 3 minutes in the strongest climber of the race. You see, it really doesn't matter if you're the strongest climber, gastro problems go away, a stupid fall may cost you the Giro.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Merckx also won five Tours because Ocana crashed out, but that was hardly a win of strength.

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

Kruijs had exactly 41 seconds on Nibali when he started shitting, hardly much stronger, don't you think? But that poor Dutch chap started to belive, like you, that he is so much stronger after the TT disaster and with a pink jersey on his shoulders for the first time in his life. In fact he declared that he had no weaknesses. Juat like you, he thought he was the strongest. And then when the shark got out of the toilet and put some pressure on him on Agnello, the pink jersey started breathing heavily at 2700m, still thinking he has no weaknesses he thought he could follow the shark until a snowwall appeared from the fog in front of his surprised eyes. The shark's tale ends on Risoul where in 3 km he put 3 minutes in the strongest climber of the race. You see, it really doesn't matter if you're the strongest climber, gastro problems go away, a stupid fall may cost you the Giro.

Brilliant

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Merckx also won five Tours because Ocana crashed out, but that was hardly a win of strength.

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

Kruijs had exactly 41 seconds on Nibali when he started shitting, hardly much stronger, don't you think? But that poor Dutch chap started to belive, like you, that he is so much stronger after the TT disaster and with a pink jersey on his shoulders for the first time in his life. In fact he declared that he had no weaknesses. Juat like you, he thought he was the strongest. And then when the shark got out of the toilet and put some pressure on him on Agnello, the pink jersey started breathing heavily at 2700m, still thinking he has no weaknesses he thought he could follow the shark until a snowwall appeared from the fog in front of his surprised eyes. The shark's tale ends on Risoul where in 3 km he put 3 minutes in the strongest climber of the race. You see, it really doesn't matter if you're the strongest climber, gastro problems go away, a stupid fall may cost you the Giro.

It puts a nice romantic edge on things, but all we know is that Kruijswijk crashed while 4:43 in the lead on Nibali. And who knows what the Dutchman's bowel movements were like up till that time?

I'd love to know how you know Nibali was shitiing at that time. Were you there? If anything it confirms my point.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Nibali shat down the toilet but shot up Risoul.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Merckx also won five Tours because Ocana crashed out, but that was hardly a win of strength.

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

Kruijs had exactly 41 seconds on Nibali when he started shitting, hardly much stronger, don't you think? But that poor Dutch chap started to belive, like you, that he is so much stronger after the TT disaster and with a pink jersey on his shoulders for the first time in his life. In fact he declared that he had no weaknesses. Juat like you, he thought he was the strongest. And then when the shark got out of the toilet and put some pressure on him on Agnello, the pink jersey started breathing heavily at 2700m, still thinking he has no weaknesses he thought he could follow the shark until a snowwall appeared from the fog in front of his surprised eyes. The shark's tale ends on Risoul where in 3 km he put 3 minutes in the strongest climber of the race. You see, it really doesn't matter if you're the strongest climber, gastro problems go away, a stupid fall may cost you the Giro.

It puts a nice romantic edge on things, but all we know is that Kruijswijk crashed while 4:43 in the lead on Nibali. And who knows what the Dutchman's bowel movements were like up till that time?

I'd love to know how you know Nibali was shitiing at that time. Were you there? If anything it confirms my point.

You said he was shitting, he said he had problems before the TT, the difference was 41 sec. then. It confirms only the absurdity of trying to assign an outmost importance of the climbing ability of one rider in the grand scheme of a Grand Tour. In the end it doesn't matter, he wasn't even capable to climb on the podium, due to that mistake he wasn't the best climber of the Giro, he was fourth.

And yes, Nibali has a romantic edge in the way he rides, something coming from those old ages of cycling, that's why I like him.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Merckx also won five Tours because Ocana crashed out, but that was hardly a win of strength.

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

Kruijs had exactly 41 seconds on Nibali when he started shitting, hardly much stronger, don't you think? But that poor Dutch chap started to belive, like you, that he is so much stronger after the TT disaster and with a pink jersey on his shoulders for the first time in his life. In fact he declared that he had no weaknesses. Juat like you, he thought he was the strongest. And then when the shark got out of the toilet and put some pressure on him on Agnello, the pink jersey started breathing heavily at 2700m, still thinking he has no weaknesses he thought he could follow the shark until a snowwall appeared from the fog in front of his surprised eyes. The shark's tale ends on Risoul where in 3 km he put 3 minutes in the strongest climber of the race. You see, it really doesn't matter if you're the strongest climber, gastro problems go away, a stupid fall may cost you the Giro.

It puts a nice romantic edge on things, but all we know is that Kruijswijk crashed while 4:43 in the lead on Nibali. And who knows what the Dutchman's bowel movements were like up till that time?

I'd love to know how you know Nibali was shitiing at that time. Were you there? If anything it confirms my point.

You said he was shitting, he said he had problems before the TT, the difference was 41 sec. then. It confirms only the absurdity of trying to assign an outmost importance of the climbing ability of one rider in the grand scheme of a Grand Tour. In the end it doesn't matter, he wasn't even capable to climb on the podium, due to that mistake he wasn't the best climber of the Giro, he was fourth.

And yes, Nibali has a romantic edge in the way he rides, something coming from those old ages of cycling, that's why I like him.

Come on, you make it sound as if without the crash Nibali would have still won.

I don't care that Kruijswijk lost, but we really shouldn't say that Nibali did more than he did.

It's hard to climb on the podium with a broken rib after you've been unseated by a crash when in a comanding lead, no?

At any rate I take what Nibali and Astana has said about his "gastro problems" about as seriously as I take this thread.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

No race for Nibali till the Tour.
Hard to believe he could be anything more than a helper/stage hunter.

Slongo during a "Processo alla tappa" said that the plan for the Tour was starting without condition and gaining it during the race, at that moment they was thinking to change it because was over 4 minutes down but after his comeback in the latter stages probably they confirmed the original plan.
Anyway it's strange that he doesn't want to defend his national champion title.

The route is not for him, he can't win.

There is already a profile available?
I didn't find anything, only the program on the federciclismo site.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Merckx also won five Tours because Ocana crashed out, but that was hardly a win of strength.

Nibali had gastro problems, because he was shitiing himself that Krusijwijk was so much stronger.

Kruijs had exactly 41 seconds on Nibali when he started shitting, hardly much stronger, don't you think? But that poor Dutch chap started to belive, like you, that he is so much stronger after the TT disaster and with a pink jersey on his shoulders for the first time in his life. In fact he declared that he had no weaknesses. Juat like you, he thought he was the strongest. And then when the shark got out of the toilet and put some pressure on him on Agnello, the pink jersey started breathing heavily at 2700m, still thinking he has no weaknesses he thought he could follow the shark until a snowwall appeared from the fog in front of his surprised eyes. The shark's tale ends on Risoul where in 3 km he put 3 minutes in the strongest climber of the race. You see, it really doesn't matter if you're the strongest climber, gastro problems go away, a stupid fall may cost you the Giro.

It puts a nice romantic edge on things, but all we know is that Kruijswijk crashed while 4:43 in the lead on Nibali. And who knows what the Dutchman's bowel movements were like up till that time?

I'd love to know how you know Nibali was shitiing at that time. Were you there? If anything it confirms my point.

You said he was shitting, he said he had problems before the TT, the difference was 41 sec. then. It confirms only the absurdity of trying to assign an outmost importance of the climbing ability of one rider in the grand scheme of a Grand Tour. In the end it doesn't matter, he wasn't even capable to climb on the podium, due to that mistake he wasn't the best climber of the Giro, he was fourth.

And yes, Nibali has a romantic edge in the way he rides, something coming from those old ages of cycling, that's why I like him.

Come on, you make it sound as if without the crash Nibali would have still won.

I don't care that Kruijswijk lost, but we really shouldn't say that Nibali did more than he did.

It's hard to climb on the podium with a broken rib after you've been unseated by a crash when in a comanding lead, no?

At any rate I take what Nibali and Astana has said about his "gastro problems" about as seriously as I take this thread.

If you don't take seriously this thread then why bother writing long theories about why Nibali won the Giro? I also have my doubts about the gastro but it just came up when you said Nibali was shitting himself. And to finish this debate, my opinion is irelevant compared to what Vincenzo said that without SK's mistake he probably couldn't have won. My opinion was never different but that wasn't the point. The point was always that the race ends in Torino and there is only one winner.

 

[The Blues]

Re: Re:

No race for Nibali till the Tour.
Hard to believe he could be anything more than a helper/stage hunter.

Slongo during a "Processo alla tappa" said that the plan for the Tour was starting without condition and gaining it during the race, at that moment they was thinking to change it because was over 4 minutes down but after his comeback in the latter stages probably they confirmed the original plan.
Anyway it's strange that he doesn't want to defend his national champion title.

The route is not for him, he can't win.

There is already a profile available?
I didn't find anything, only the program on the federciclismo site.

Here you have the profiles for all stages:
http://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/road-races/tour-france-2016-official-profiles-t6908.html

I think his reluctance to go for GC (or, at least, say it publicly) is more due to his focus on Rio and being concerned with how tired he will be after riding two GTs for GC. I don't think the route suits him poorly, although a few "classics stages" would have been preferable, of course. There are even four tough stages with downhill finishes.

 

[phil-i-am]

Re: Re:

No race for Nibali till the Tour.
Hard to believe he could be anything more than a helper/stage hunter.

Slongo during a "Processo alla tappa" said that the plan for the Tour was starting without condition and gaining it during the race, at that moment they was thinking to change it because was over 4 minutes down but after his comeback in the latter stages probably they confirmed the original plan.
Anyway it's strange that he doesn't want to defend his national champion title.

The route is not for him, he can't win.

There is already a profile available?
I didn't find anything, only the program on the federciclismo site.

Here you have the profiles for all stages:
http://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/road-races/tour-france-2016-official-profiles-t6908.html

I think his reluctance to go for GC (or, at least, say it publicly) is more due to his focus on Rio and being concerned with how tired he will be after riding two GTs for GC. I don't think the route suits him poorly, although a few "classics stages" would have been preferable, of course. There are even four tough stages with downhill finishes.

Pretty sure he meant the Italian Championship Road Race.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

lets devide froome,quintana,contador,nibali (the big four) in roughly 2 categories:

1: the physically strongest: Quintana and Froome. Froome by far the best ITT, Quintana the best climber. as they are used to rely on raw fitness, they didnt need develop that much taktikal awerness. this is sometimes obvious

2: the mentally/tactical/peloton-alliances users (e.g the smarts): Contador and Nibali. The older AC became, the more he used this taktical think. he realised that he wasnt as strong as in 2007-2009 and he adapted. Nibali was never the strongest TT and never the best climber. still winning 4GTs he s got to be the smartest of those big 4. like contador he has many friends in the peloton and his charakter is more of patron.

Let's see. They are all at the start of the Tour. Should be a good battle, if they all stay upright.

Also Nibali star was lining up exactly at the right time, and he capitalized it every time. Not undermining his achievement. Call it luck, but I would prefer to say that he always there to take advantage of it at the right time.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

No race for Nibali till the Tour.
Hard to believe he could be anything more than a helper/stage hunter.

I don't believe it. If he finds himself on 4th or better than Aru, I have no doubt that he wasn't thinking about Giro-Tour double. No one has done it for long time. Even Contador can't muster to do it. Right now, it's better not to say it publicly just see how it goes. Smart. (just see the sheer of scrutiny with him loosing 4 minutes), imagine if he announces that he would try Giro-Tour double. What a media circus we will read by now?

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

If you don't take seriously this thread then why bother writing long theories about why Nibali won the Giro? I also have my doubts about the gastro but it just came up when you said Nibali was shitting himself. And to finish this debate, my opinion is irelevant compared to what Vincenzo said that without SK's mistake he probably couldn't have won. My opinion was never different but that wasn't the point. The point was always that the race ends in Torino and there is only one winner.

What theory? We all saw what happened. Nibali won the Giro, because SK crashed. This fact must be considered when assessing the nature of his triumph.

Whether or not he would still have had that not been the case is what's entirely theoretical.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Slongo during a "Processo alla tappa" said that the plan for the Tour was starting without condition and gaining it during the race, at that moment they was thinking to change it because was over 4 minutes down but after his comeback in the latter stages probably they confirmed the original plan.
Anyway it's strange that he doesn't want to defend his national champion title.

The route is not for him, he can't win.

There is already a profile available?
I didn't find anything, only the program on the federciclismo site.

Here you have the profiles for all stages:
http://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/road-races/tour-france-2016-official-profiles-t6908.html

I think his reluctance to go for GC (or, at least, say it publicly) is more due to his focus on Rio and being concerned with how tired he will be after riding two GTs for GC. I don't think the route suits him poorly, although a few "classics stages" would have been preferable, of course. There are even four tough stages with downhill finishes.

Pretty sure he meant the Italian Championship Road Race.

Yes, i was talking about italian championship.

 

[malakassis]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

this giro changed my opinion on nibali. i always liked him because he was modest, serious and straight. he was very loyal domestique for basso and crucial for his 2010 giro (monte grappa stage!!!).
but now i admire him. because he pushed through instead of DNF. its exactly this mindset of not giving up which is so important in whole life. stuff for a great rolemodel. he is proud, he fought back and he honoured the race (unlike dumoulin!) He is 100% deserved winner! thanx San Vincenzo Nibali!

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

I don't believe it. If he finds himself on 4th or better than Aru, I have no doubt that he wasn't thinking about Giro-Tour double. No one has done it for long time. Even Contador can't muster to do it. Right now, it's better not to say it publicly just see how it goes. Smart. (just see the sheer of scrutiny with him loosing 4 minutes), imagine if he announces that he would try Giro-Tour double. What a media circus we will read by now?

First week at the Tour is normally stressful and very fast.
It's very hard not to lose time if you don't start the Tour in perfect shape, which seems to be the case. Nibali doesn't perform very well in his first racing days after training.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

What theory? We all saw what happened. Nibali won the Giro, because SK crashed. This fact must be considered when assessing the nature of his triumph.

And SK crashed because he wasn't as good descending as Nibali.

 

[The Blues]

Re: Re:

"Yes, i was talking about italian championship." - Nirvana

Of course. I guess I just saw "Tour" and "profile" and didn't properly read the posts. My bad. But it is too bad that he won't try to defend his title, because winning is always nice and he won't be as easy to instantly recognize from helicopter shots.

Edit: if he is indeed not riding. I haven't seen it confirmed, but it would be understandable considering the route.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Re: Re:

What theory? We all saw what happened. Nibali won the Giro, because SK crashed. This fact must be considered when assessing the nature of his triumph.

Whether or not he would still have had that not been the case is what's entirely theoretical.

We know for fact that Nibali won the Giro, we know for fact that Kruijswijk crashed, we know for fact that Nibali was over 4 minutes adrift in 4th place and after two stages was sitting proudly in pink, we know people crashing is part of racing, we know that the winner is decided at the finish.

Everything else is open for discussion, but what we have is a worthy winner in Nibali while a rider who would have been a worthy winner lost due to his own mistake whilst under pressure.

 

[El Pistolero]

Where did Nibali say he won't defend his national title? And does anyone have a picture of the profile? Come to think of it: has there been a better national champion than Nibali this century (and possibly even further back): he won the Tour de France, the Giro d'Italia and the Giro di Lombardia during his two years as a national champion.

It would be a shame to see someone else in the Italian jersey... And it's also a shame Astana didn't allow for a real national jersey like this:

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Where did Nibali say he won't defend his national title? And does anyone have a picture of the profile? Come to think of it: has there been a better national champion than Nibali this century (and possibly even further back): he won the Tour de France, the Giro d'Italia and the Giro di Lombardia during his two years as a national champion.

It would be a shame to see someone else in the Italian jersey... And it's also a shame Astana didn't allow for a real national jersey like this:

Here you find the parcours:
http://campionati-italiani-ciclismo.it/professionisti/

Since Gimondi in 69, he is the first to win the Giro as an Italian champion.

 

[SafeBet]

Looks like a perfect profile for Colbrelli. Very hard for Nibali to defend his jersey.

 

[Brullnux]

There's a little 200m (I think) stretch at 17% which someone could attack on, so it's not completely out of the question that he wins it, just exremely difficult, especially with Bardiani and Trek and Lampre maybe chasing him down. Colbrelli ftw, it Ulissi in a group of 5 or 6, unless Sonny is in it too.