Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Don't don't post your own imagination and present them as fact.

Give me one rider who wasn't at Lombardy who would have challenged Nibali?

And your own imaginary argument works perfectly for Froome as well. Opponents all crashed/sick/did Giro/refused to attack/own team. That list is actually quite a bit longer when I come to think of it.

 

[hazaran]

Re: Re:

Don't don't post your own imagination and present them as fact.

Give me one rider who wasn't at Lombardy who would have challenged Nibali?

And your own imaginary argument works perfectly for Froome as well. Opponents all crashed/sick/did Giro/refused to attack/own team. That list is actually quite a bit longer when I come to think of it.

If you list all the cases you're going to end up with a list of all riders, that is axiomatic.

 

[topcat]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Froome fans should be happy he's the second best gt rider this year. Nobody could have stayed with Nibali on Saturday whereas Froome didnt dominate a stage all year.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Froome fans should be happy he's the second best gt rider this year. Nobody could have stayed with Nibali on Saturday whereas Froome didnt dominate a stage all year.

He didn't have to and still walked away with a legendary grand tour double

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Froome fans should be happy he's the second best gt rider this year. Nobody could have stayed with Nibali on Saturday whereas Froome didnt dominate a stage all year.

He didn't have to and still walked away with a legendary grand tour double

He'll never be a legend though. Cycling (or any other professional sport) isn't just about the results.

Pantani, with "only' two GT wins, is a bigger legend than many, more successful cyclists. Partly because his tragic death, but mostly because of the way he raced.

 

[topcat]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Froome fans should be happy he's the second best gt rider this year. Nobody could have stayed with Nibali on Saturday whereas Froome didnt dominate a stage all year.

He didn't have to and still walked away with a legendary grand tour double

Gilbert at Ronde, Tom at Giro, Nibali at Lombardia ...
Legendary

 

[Rollthedice]

Nibali needs one more win in his career to shut up all the doubters, the world championship RR. There are only three legendary riders who won all three GTs, at least a monument and the rainbow jersey: Gimondi, Merckx and Hinault. So, there's still about a year to debate whether he's already legendary because after Innsbruck there will be no doubt.

 

[dfromdub]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Don't don't post your own imagination and present them as fact.

Give me one rider who wasn't at Lombardy who would have challenged Nibali?

And your own imaginary argument works perfectly for Froome as well. Opponents all crashed/sick/did Giro/refused to attack/own team. That list is actually quite a bit longer when I come to think of it.

Sure it does, Rick. Sure it does.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Aah...TA 2013.
Boy, did Nibz get lucky there. :razz:

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Froome fans should be happy he's the second best gt rider this year. Nobody could have stayed with Nibali on Saturday whereas Froome didnt dominate a stage all year.

He didn't have to and still walked away with a legendary grand tour double

Gilbert at Ronde, Tom at Giro, Nibali at Lombardia ...
Legendary

Now I've heard everything. Please say Sergio Henaos Paris Nice win against Bertie was legendary too. :lol: :lol:

 

[Attilaz]

Re:

Nibali needs one more win in his career to shut up all the doubters, the world championship RR. There are only three legendary riders who won all three GTs, at least a monument and the rainbow jersey: Gimondi, Merckx and Hinault. So, there's still about a year to debate whether he's already legendary because after Innsbruck there will be no doubt.

Nibali is already considered a legendary rider by the other pros.
Press is generally biased towards riders that generates more click. Which are English speaking riders generally.
He does not need to shut up anybody.

He could have already have a rainbow jersey and an Olympic gold among other things.
Just the other day I have heard Cadel Evans associating his name to Eddy Merckx (as a rider able to win all sort of races).
Regardless the three GT were not the same years ago.
Vuelta took the place of Tour of Swiss, which was the third one.

 

[Tonton]

The guys on Velo101 checked all the Strava files, and Pinot's descent of Civiglia is the fastest ever recorded on Strava. But this excludes Nibali '15 and '17. It makes sense, looking at tape and gaps. Pinot finished the descent with more of a gap than before. Il Squalo put up a performance for the ages, not just there, but afterwards.

Bad week-1 at the Giro mostly because he blew himself up on the Blosckhaus, strong after that, Umbrail win, just beat on the ITTs by Dumourain. Vuelta? Not at his best but feisty. Two podiums: one year that would make a career for many excellent riders.

Nibali '14 vs. Nibali '17? More about course and tactics, outcome, than skills. That's my takeaway from Lombardia: he put up one of his best performances ever. So the '17 Nibali is not declining, as I suspected.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

The way he just destroyed Quintana, Uran, Pozzovivo and Pinot in the mountains was amazing to watch. Sure, Pinot got gapped on the descent, but he lost most of his time on the San Fermo.

This was the most spectacular climbing performance of the year. He'd have dropped anyone from 2017 with that form.

Plenty better and solid performances. Nibali generally wins when the best competition doesn't participate/crash. Fact.

Aah...TA 2013.
Boy, did Nibz get lucky there. :razz:

How? By dropping Froome on 25% muro? :lol:

 

[Laplaz]

Which palmares would you take if you have to choose? Nibali's or Froomey's?

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Which palmares would you take if you have to choose? Nibali's or Froomey's?

I could only tell you which career would I take, and it ain't Froome's!

 

[Flat Out]

In Italy we say wins are not counted but weighted, and I think Vincenzo Nibali has an edge on Froome here, talking about single wins and not GT where clearly Froome comes first. I would like a Chris win like Tre Cime '13 or Lombardia '15, something really into modern epic cycling, more than following the trains and attack last 2 km. Just a wish

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

Wow my respect for pinot is growing year after year. Guess those racecar sessions really helped him to overcome his fear of speed.
I should have another look at his descent but i couldnt help notice that he didnt cut into most of the corners correctly.
He probably did that to get closer to nibs wheel but when exiting the corner he couldnt hit the gas as quickly as nibali did. Nibali really knows how to take those corners and most important of all how to exit those corners.

But I wouldnt focus on lbl to be honest, i dont think it s hard enough for him to drop alaphilippe

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Which palmares would you take if you have to choose? Nibali's or Froomey's?

I could only tell you which career would I take, and it ain't Froome's!

Palmares Froome because after all the Tour is the most important race on the calendar, but indeed the career of Nibali is much cooler. Would prefer to be a rider like him.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

In Italy we say wins are not counted but weighted, and I think Vincenzo Nibali has an edge on Froome here, talking about single wins and not GT where clearly Froome comes first. I would like a Chris win like Tre Cime '13 or Lombardia '15, something really into modern epic cycling, more than following the trains and attack last 2 km. Just a wish

Firstly, great post.
I agree that Nibali has proven to be more versatile. He is a truly entertaining rider. Granted that.
You say wins are weighed.
Whenever I think of Nibali, it almost always feel like he's lucked out a lot of wins. Case in point being his last 2 GT wins. Both times it felt more like him not winning but the competition crashing/ not participating.
Credit where credits due though. He's been very smart and shrewd that way. He knows what he can win. Targets that. But more importantly, knows what he cannot win. :razz:
Here somebody said that he's the second best GT rider right now. I dont believe that. He has to come to the Tour and finish atleast second. A guy coming 3rd in the Giro just cannot be. A guy losing the Vuelta to a Tour fatigued colleague cannot be. He cant beat the best guys when the road goes uphill and with the recent TT mile shortage it'll be difficult for Nibali to do well at the Tour.

PS: Knives off gentlemen. Im ready to be proven wrong. But by Nibali.

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

Re: Re:

In Italy we say wins are not counted but weighted, and I think Vincenzo Nibali has an edge on Froome here, talking about single wins and not GT where clearly Froome comes first. I would like a Chris win like Tre Cime '13 or Lombardia '15, something really into modern epic cycling, more than following the trains and attack last 2 km. Just a wish

Firstly, great post.
I agree that Nibali has proven to be more versatile. He is a truly entertaining rider. Granted that.
You say wins are weighed.
Whenever I think of Nibali, it almost always feel like he's lucked out a lot of wins. Case in point being his last 2 GT wins. Both times it felt more like him not winning but the competition crashing/ not participating.
Credit where credits due though. He's been very smart and shrewd that way. He knows what he can win. Targets that. But more importantly, knows what he cannot win. :razz:
Here somebody said that he's the second best GT rider right now. I dont believe that. He has to come to the Tour and finish atleast second. A guy coming 3rd in the Giro just cannot be. A guy losing the Vuelta to a Tour fatigued colleague cannot be. He cant beat the best guys when the road goes uphill and with the recent TT mile shortage it'll be difficult for Nibali to do well at the Tour.

PS: Knives off gentlemen. Im ready to be proven wrong. But by Nibali.

Froome aint **** without his train and i would like to see him win a gt without such a ridiculous team tbh.
You know like in wc or the orr where all of a sudden he s a donkey again.
Even people like the jose de cauwer now say that they are not convinced froome wins the vuelta without such a strong team sky.
Btw froome was not tired in the vuelta, he only peaked later. Knaven also doesnt expect froome to dominate anymore in the mountains. He said that other riders have closed the gap.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

In Italy we say wins are not counted but weighted, and I think Vincenzo Nibali has an edge on Froome here, talking about single wins and not GT where clearly Froome comes first. I would like a Chris win like Tre Cime '13 or Lombardia '15, something really into modern epic cycling, more than following the trains and attack last 2 km. Just a wish

Firstly, great post.
I agree that Nibali has proven to be more versatile. He is a truly entertaining rider. Granted that.
You say wins are weighed.
Whenever I think of Nibali, it almost always feel like he's lucked out a lot of wins. Case in point being his last 2 GT wins. Both times it felt more like him not winning but the competition crashing/ not participating.
Credit where credits due though. He's been very smart and shrewd that way. He knows what he can win. Targets that. But more importantly, knows what he cannot win. :razz:
Here somebody said that he's the second best GT rider right now. I dont believe that. He has to come to the Tour and finish atleast second. A guy coming 3rd in the Giro just cannot be. A guy losing the Vuelta to a Tour fatigued colleague cannot be. He cant beat the best guys when the road goes uphill and with the recent TT mile shortage it'll be difficult for Nibali to do well at the Tour.

PS: Knives off gentlemen. Im ready to be proven wrong. But by Nibali.

You are one of the more reasonable Froome fans so I will take my time to respond. It has been said hundreds of times that crashes or other top riders not participating are part of the game and it is 100% true. It's the same risk/reward for any rider maybe some are more lucky than others but that's about it. I will give you just two situations involving our dear riders, Froome winning last year Tour against second or if you want third tier GT riders after the strongest competitor crashed out (Porte) and Nibali loosing arguably the greatest win of his career by falling with 11.5 Km to go while in front at the Olympic RR. I'd say he's the third GT rider right now after Froome and Dumo. Most probably he'll be at the Tour next year so we'll see what will happen since Froome also fits your description "he cant beat the best guys when the road goes uphill and with the recent TT mile shortage it'll be difficult".

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

Nibali must go to the tour and finish second. That your reasoning to be the second best gt rider if i read this correctly.
:lol: Apart from the fact that this is dumb and ridiculous you do realise who came second in the tour this year right? Its uran... u know the same uran who can never beat an in form nibali.
Implying nibali chooses his goals with the competition in mind is even worse. He chooses the parcours that fits him the most ,like you know every other pro rider.
There will never be an asterisk next to his giro 2016 victory because kruijswijck couldnt stay on his bike, the only thing that will happen is that nobody will ever remember kruijswijck. Any idea the enormous pressure nibali always faces in italy ,because that played a role too. Luckily scarponi got him to calm down.

 

[Pippo_San]

The only win Nibbles needs is LBL. And that damn WC.
Everything else, who cares.

 

[silvergrenade]

Nibali must go to the tour and finish second. That your reasoning to be the second best gt rider if i read this correctly.
:lol: Apart from the fact that this is dumb and ridiculous you do realise who came second in the tour this year right? Its uran... u know the same uran who can never beat an in form nibali.
Implying nibali chooses his goals with the competition in mind is even worse. He chooses the parcours that fits him the most ,like you know every other pro rider.
There will never be an asterisk next to his giro 2016 victory because kruijswijck couldnt stay on his bike, the only thing that will happen is that nobody will ever remember kruijswijck. Any idea the enormous pressure nibali always faces in italy ,because that played a role too. Luckily scarponi got him to calm down.

Oooof...
We'll argue about this, but only when you're ready to; which you clearly arent right now.
I'll just say one thing. Learn how to respond like rollthedice. On the forum as well as in life.
Cheers..