Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[dacooley]

Re:

He'll do the Tour alright, no worries. Quintana finished 9 seconds in front at the Giro, that's really nothing over 3609 km. Think of it as a photo finish in a sprint stage and after that he fell off a cliff while Nibs was going stronger in Vuelta and Lombardia where he dropped Nairo like a stone. So overall 2017, Nibali > Quintana. Tell me who did Froome beat uphill in the Tour, at some point he was dropped by his own gregario. In Vuelta he was stronger but only managed to drop relevant riders on muritos.

sorry, but you are delivering it as though ability to ride muritos properly is not what a real grand tour rider should be able to do well. they are very very important especially given how many high mountain stages ended up with draw in this season: starting from piancavallo (barring dimoulin) and ortisei, continuing with pretty much each of tour big stages, izoard aside, and finishing with 3 or 4 vuelta stages where froome and nibali crossed the line together. not to mention, there's no much shame in being dropped by that gregario at some point.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

]

I don't think there are any arguments here guys. Froome is better GT rider, but essentially 2 trick pony, TT and calculated climbing using train.

Nibali on the other hand is much more versatile with ability to win almost in every terrain/GT/one day race with the exception of ITT and flat sprint.

Essentially two completely different rider types who also have different mechanism to win races. Everyone is free to pick as FAN the style you like more and whatever one chooses is not wrong.

My pick is Nibali, but I do respect Dawg's achievements highly as well.

You must have missed the 2016 tour, or even most of his Vuelta performances prior to this year

I was talking about their ways and style of winning. One stage in whole career (Tour 2016) attacking (from the train) before summit and maintaining the lead with good descent does not constitute extreme versatily.

And Vueltas before this year only proves my point, he didn't win because of weaker train. Nibs has more GT podiums than Dagw, so those Vueltas wont make him better GT rider. The wins with train and TT's does.

In the vuelta he didn't win because he was caught out on one stage, prooves nothing

From your reply I still don't think you watched 2016 tour though

Anyway enough of Froome talk here it is obvious to anyone withou bias he is a better rider than Nibali.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

]

I don't think there are any arguments here guys. Froome is better GT rider, but essentially 2 trick pony, TT and calculated climbing using train.

Nibali on the other hand is much more versatile with ability to win almost in every terrain/GT/one day race with the exception of ITT and flat sprint.

Essentially two completely different rider types who also have different mechanism to win races. Everyone is free to pick as FAN the style you like more and whatever one chooses is not wrong.

My pick is Nibali, but I do respect Dawg's achievements highly as well.

You must have missed the 2016 tour, or even most of his Vuelta performances prior to this year

I was talking about their ways and style of winning. One stage in whole career (Tour 2016) attacking (from the train) before summit and maintaining the lead with good descent does not constitute extreme versatily.

And Vueltas before this year only proves my point, he didn't win because of weaker train. Nibs has more GT podiums than Dagw, so those Vueltas wont make him better GT rider. The wins with train and TT's does.

In the vuelta he didn't win because he was caught out on one stage, prooves nothing

From your reply I still don't think you watched 2016 tour though

Anyway enough of Froome talk here it is obvious to anyone withou bias he is a better rider than Nibali.

I told you there is no argument, but you are the one who started saying Froome is something else than GT rider that banks his advantages in TT and mountains with best team. I don't think you've proved anything otherwise by saying I'm not watching races.

And I'm with you as I said earlier. Froome is better GT-rider.

And I agree. Let's stop talking Froome in Vince's thread. That was also the point of my original message. You couldn't though stop couldn't you?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

]

I don't think there are any arguments here guys. Froome is better GT rider, but essentially 2 trick pony, TT and calculated climbing using train.

Nibali on the other hand is much more versatile with ability to win almost in every terrain/GT/one day race with the exception of ITT and flat sprint.

Essentially two completely different rider types who also have different mechanism to win races. Everyone is free to pick as FAN the style you like more and whatever one chooses is not wrong.

My pick is Nibali, but I do respect Dawg's achievements highly as well.

You must have missed the 2016 tour, or even most of his Vuelta performances prior to this year

I was talking about their ways and style of winning. One stage in whole career (Tour 2016) attacking (from the train) before summit and maintaining the lead with good descent does not constitute extreme versatily.

And Vueltas before this year only proves my point, he didn't win because of weaker train. Nibs has more GT podiums than Dagw, so those Vueltas wont make him better GT rider. The wins with train and TT's does.

Anyway enough of Froome talk here it is obvious to anyone withou bias he is a better rider than Nibali.

So we have an unclear definition, much of which is subjective, a large amount of confounders, and if people are unbiased they should all reach the same conclusion as you?

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

Well i never knew cycling was only about gt's...
Everything considered nibali is the better overall rider, look at his palmares there's no denying that.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

He'll do the Tour alright, no worries. Quintana finished 9 seconds in front at the Giro, that's really nothing over 3609 km. Think of it as a photo finish in a sprint stage and after that he fell off a cliff while Nibs was going stronger in Vuelta and Lombardia where he dropped Nairo like a stone. So overall 2017, Nibali > Quintana. Tell me who did Froome beat uphill in the Tour, at some point he was dropped by his own gregario. In Vuelta he was stronger but only managed to drop relevant riders on muritos.

sorry, but you are delivering it as though ability to ride muritos properly is not what a real grand tour rider should be able to do well. they are very very important especially given how many high mountain stages ended up with draw in this season: starting from piancavallo (barring dimoulin) and ortisei, continuing with pretty much each of tour big stages, izoard aside, and finishing with 3 or 4 vuelta stages where froome and nibali crossed the line together. not to mention, there's no much shame in being dropped by that gregario at some point.

It's good to ride well muritos, Nibali can do that minus the explosiveness needed to get a bit of an edge. I was saying that Froome has a problem lately to drop relevant riders on proper mountain stages, something that silvergrenade attributed exclusively to Nibs when comparing the two riders. Froome won Le Tour in the ITT against Uran and Bardet and Vuelta on a few muritos and the TTs. Of course having by far the best team helped him decisively to achieve this.

 

[Gigs_98]

I read in the new cyclingnews article about him that he wanted to win Paris Roubaix when he was a young rider. Do you guys think he still has this goal? It would be pretty cool if he focuses on cobbles classics when he isn't capable of winning gt's anymore.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

]

I don't think there are any arguments here guys. Froome is better GT rider, but essentially 2 trick pony, TT and calculated climbing using train.

Nibali on the other hand is much more versatile with ability to win almost in every terrain/GT/one day race with the exception of ITT and flat sprint.

Essentially two completely different rider types who also have different mechanism to win races. Everyone is free to pick as FAN the style you like more and whatever one chooses is not wrong.

My pick is Nibali, but I do respect Dawg's achievements highly as well.

You must have missed the 2016 tour, or even most of his Vuelta performances prior to this year

I was talking about their ways and style of winning. One stage in whole career (Tour 2016) attacking (from the train) before summit and maintaining the lead with good descent does not constitute extreme versatily.

And Vueltas before this year only proves my point, he didn't win because of weaker train. Nibs has more GT podiums than Dagw, so those Vueltas wont make him better GT rider. The wins with train and TT's does.

In the vuelta he didn't win because he was caught out on one stage, prooves nothing

From your reply I still don't think you watched 2016 tour though

Anyway enough of Froome talk here it is obvious to anyone withou bias he is a better rider than Nibali.

...and you are without bias? Overall Nibali has shown that he can be competitive in a wide variety of disciplines/races: grand tours, week-long stage races, hilly classics and even MSR. To say "it is obvious to anyone without bias" that Froome is a better rider only exhibits your own bias. Froome has shown no interest in competing in events other than stage races and races against the clock. One can only guess as to how he would fair if chose to focus on them while with Nibali he has proven his worth.

 

[Brullnux]

I read in the new cyclingnews article about him that he wanted to win Paris Roubaix when he was a young rider. Do you guys think he still has this goal? It would be pretty cool if he focuses on cobbles classics when he isn't capable of winning gt's anymore.

He'll need to bulk up a bit. But theoretically that should be easier than cutting a lot of weight, and loads of people have done that very successfully in recent years so who knows?

 

[Flat Out]

Today in an interview Pellizzotti said that he and Vince are already talking (even at Lombardia's eve) how to beat Frome and Sky in the next Tour. They have lost in Vuelta but seems they have come with some ideas on tactics, phisical training needs and improvement, team roster selection and so on. High hopes!

 

[bambino]

Re:

Today in an interview Pellizzotti said that he and Vince are already talking (even at Lombardia's eve) how to beat Frome and Sky in the next Tour. They have lost in Vuelta but seems they have come with some ideas on tactics, phisical training needs and improvement, team roster selection and so on. High hopes!

Would be nice for us as the fans if they really put new kind of pressure against Sky. At the end, I don't see anyone else than Dumoulin and Nibali seriously endagering Froome's 5th win (in case he decides to focus on Tour) and Dumoulin is probably banking for TT + his capability to follow the train to the finish line in climbs. Dumoulin vs. Froome can (don't say it will) be pretty meh marginal gain competition and someone like Nibs with completely different tactics could be entertaining.

He needs to pull one of the biggest rabbit of his career from his hat to succeed though...

 

[Pennino]

Re:

Today in an interview Pellizzotti said that he and Vince are already talking (even at Lombardia's eve) how to beat Frome and Sky in the next Tour. They have lost in Vuelta but seems they have come with some ideas on tactics, phisical training needs and improvement, team roster selection and so on. High hopes!

So he just spoiled on of their tactics: pretending Nibali will not focus on GT to ultimately surprise Froome and Sky having suddenly all guns blazing. Too bad.

 

[Climbing]

He’s spoiling nothing, next year racing was already pretty much decided.
It’s LBL, TdF, Vuelta (preparation - no GC), Worlds.
Unless something very strange appears on some courses.

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

But these skybots were telling me that nibs chooses the races with the least competition because he' s smart like that.

 

[Nirvana]

In an interview for the Gazzetta he said that he'd like to try the Ronde more than Roubaix.

 

[Ipiatti]

Do you think that Nibali could win word championship 2018?

 

[Climbing]

5000+ mt altitude gain and 250+ km... he's one of the main favorites, if not the absolute main one.
Of course it's a one day race, need top form and everything going right.
It's never easy, but suits him perfectly, even more than this last Lombardia.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

5000+ mt altitude gain and 250+ km... he's one of the main favorites, if not the absolute main one.
Of course it's a one day race, need top form and everything going right.
It's never easy, but suits him perfectly, even more than this last Lombardia.

I disagree. The last climb in Innsbruck is too steep for Nibali so imo he isn't the favorite if it comes down to the last climb. But attacking on the penultimate climb could be much more difficult than in Lombardia since the last climb is so much harder than the one in Lombardia.

 

[Climbing]

Nah, no need to be superstitious, after 250k and so much climbing, steep or not doesn't matter too much, he's one of the best if not the best in endurance... he showed it multiple times.
It's not junior km and final murito, it's a real race.
But of course he will probably attack on the penultimate climb.

 

[dastott]

Already getting excited for 2018 - Froome, Big Tom, Vince and (hopefully) Nairo going head to head at both the Tour and the WRR would be great.

 

[Oliver]

Re:

Nah, no need to be superstitious, after 250k and so much climbing, steep or not doesn't matter too much, he's one of the best if not the best in endurance... he showed it multiple times.
It's not junior km and final murito, it's a real race.
But of course he will probably attack on the penultimate climb.

True, isn't like a flat stage and a murito in the end.
He needs a real hard race so every one is already tired.

 

[Oliver]

Re:

He’s spoiling nothing, next year racing was already pretty much decided.
It’s LBL, TdF, Vuelta (preparation - no GC), Worlds.
Unless something very strange appears on some courses.

Okay for me, I will try to be there in LBL and TdF!
I hope he goes deep in a few stage at Vuelta cause a lot of hard racing seems to be the best for him.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

In an interview for the Gazzetta he said that he'd like to try the Ronde more than Roubaix.

Would love to see him try. Definitely my most favorite cyclist right now, including the Belgians!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

It would be great to see Nibali take on RVV for real, i.e. a major goal.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Nibali has a better chance at Roubaix then at de Ronde. Both are tiny though, and I would think Nibali really needs a wet, crazy Roubaix to have a better than miniscule chance. At the Ronde the hills are just too explosive.