Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[bambino]

Re: Re:

If Nibali is disappointed in the performance in the TTT, then I think he may have had unrealistic expectations. Given the team he had, I think losing less than 1:30 is quite acceptable. But this raises the question of how he had envisioned his strategy for the rest of the Tour playing out. Is the concern the time he lost over expectations, or the number of GC contenders who are in front of him now? If he genuinely expected not to be a minute behind Froome and Porte at this point, I am thinking he had a poorly planned vision for success in the Tour. Yes, he is not a minute behind Froome and Porte now, but are the riders he is a minute behind that much more significant threats to him moving up the classification?

I'm also surprised by his reaction. What exactly did he expect? I think most of us expected him to loose around a minute and half maybe a bit more and be in the same situation as Bardet and AG2R. So in truth he's not in that bad of shape. A very different reaction to that of 2 of Movistar's leaders who are more than happy with where they currently are.

I think he is OK with the overall situation. He was just disappointed because he felt they could've done 10-15 seconds better on the day if all would've gone as planned. It is normal to be dissapointed in that situation regardless what the expectations of the deficit for the day were.

 

[Ivan_Basso_77]

Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example. Anyway, I think Nibbles' current situation is okay. Let's hope he won't lose much on Mur de Bretagne and use his cards well on Sunday,

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

If Nibali is disappointed in the performance in the TTT, then I think he may have had unrealistic expectations. Given the team he had, I think losing less than 1:30 is quite acceptable. But this raises the question of how he had envisioned his strategy for the rest of the Tour playing out. Is the concern the time he lost over expectations, or the number of GC contenders who are in front of him now? If he genuinely expected not to be a minute behind Froome and Porte at this point, I am thinking he had a poorly planned vision for success in the Tour. Yes, he is not a minute behind Froome and Porte now, but are the riders he is a minute behind that much more significant threats to him moving up the classification?

I'm also surprised by his reaction. What exactly did he expect? I think most of us expected him to loose around a minute and half maybe a bit more and be in the same situation as Bardet and AG2R. So in truth he's not in that bad of shape. A very different reaction to that of 2 of Movistar's leaders who are more than happy with where they currently are.

They were expecting at most one minute loss which was achieved more or less but they had new bikes and put a lot of work beforehand just to come up short with a few riders. In the end the differences were smaller for the majority of teams which makes it frustrating that they didn't go faster, somewhere at Movistar and depleted Astana level. The reaction was in the heat of the moment when you just dodged a bullet. It was a dangerous situation to be left with four for the last 8 Km, one of them the great time trialist Pozzovivo, one problem and he could've packed his bags. Again the positive is that he looks in good shape, basically he brought almost single-handedly the team home in the last part of the stage.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

If Nibali is disappointed in the performance in the TTT, then I think he may have had unrealistic expectations. Given the team he had, I think losing less than 1:30 is quite acceptable. But this raises the question of how he had envisioned his strategy for the rest of the Tour playing out. Is the concern the time he lost over expectations, or the number of GC contenders who are in front of him now? If he genuinely expected not to be a minute behind Froome and Porte at this point, I am thinking he had a poorly planned vision for success in the Tour. Yes, he is not a minute behind Froome and Porte now, but are the riders he is a minute behind that much more significant threats to him moving up the classification?

I'm also surprised by his reaction. What exactly did he expect? I think most of us expected him to loose around a minute and half maybe a bit more and be in the same situation as Bardet and AG2R. So in truth he's not in that bad of shape. A very different reaction to that of 2 of Movistar's leaders who are more than happy with where they currently are.

They were expecting at most one minute loss which was achieved more or less but they had new bikes and put a lot of work beforehand just to come up short with a few riders. In the end the differences were smaller for the majority of teams which makes it frustrating that they didn't go faster, somewhere at Movistar and depleted Astana level. The reaction was in the heat of the moment when you just dodged a bullet. It was a dangerous situation to be left with four for the last 8 Km, one of them the great time trialist Pozzovivo, one problem and he could've packed his bags. Again the positive is that he looks in good shape, basically he brought almost single-handedly the team home in the last part of the stage.

This is the main reason for his reaction, i think... He wasn't dissapointed with the time loss, but with the danger situation in which he found himself. One puncture, and his Tour sails away...

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Froome and Dumoulin are 90% of the relevant competition here.

I don't think they're more than 20%.
Froome is a big question mark, because of the Giro, and Dumoulin is not a question mark, he'll fade badly in the Alps and Pyrenees especially.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.

 

[skippo12]

Re: Re:

Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.

He seems to be in great shape...same for Visconti. Both won stages in Austria this week.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.

He seems to be in great shape...same for Visconti. Both won stages in Austria this week.

That doesn’t mean he would have lasted through another GT. Also what was his competition like?

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Long before the Tour I felt sure that yesterday Mohoric would have been more helpful than Koren, for example.

Mohoric is a way better rider, but he rode the Giro and he's still only 23. I don't think bringing him to the Tour would have been a wise choice.

He seems to be in great shape...same for Visconti. Both won stages in Austria this week.

Visconti has never been really a valuable domestic, he is stage hunter by nature. And in general Visconti sucks in TT's, good shape or not + he doesn't have results/experience from cobbled classics.

Mohoric is absolute monster in making, but indeed has Giro in his legs.

I could have thought about bringing Padun, but I guess they thought he is still too young.

 

[hazaran]

Nibali likes to say tranquilo a lot but you can tell from a mile away he is one fidgety, stressing and impulsive guy. He lacks some introspection. Lets face it, he's probably the best TTer on that team, so when he was left with four guys and 10 kilometres still to go, it's entirely his fault.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Nibali likes to say tranquilo a lot but you can tell from a mile away he is one fidgety, stressing and impulsive guy. He lacks some introspection. Lets face it, he's probably the best TTer on that team, so when he was left with four guys and 10 kilometres still to go, it's entirely his fault.

I personally think both Izaguirres are better/similar TTers than Nibs. They were just #2 and #3 in Spanish champs losing only around half minute to Castroviejo in bit less than 40km. And Castroviejo in around TOP 5 TTer in the world.

Nibs probably indeed got pretty worried the Tour would be gone with one single flat in that last 8km.

 

[topcat]

If Nibali had slowed down to keep 5 in the train, then they would have been slower and lost more time. I think he was frustrated because he would have expected 1 or 2 more to keep up.

 

[Eclipse]

Re: Re:

Nibali likes to say tranquilo a lot but you can tell from a mile away he is one fidgety, stressing and impulsive guy. He lacks some introspection. Lets face it, he's probably the best TTer on that team, so when he was left with four guys and 10 kilometres still to go, it's entirely his fault.

I personally think both Izaguirres are better/similar TTers than Nibs. They were just #2 and #3 in Spanish champs losing only around half minute to Castroviejo in bit less than 40km. And Castroviejo in around TOP 5 TTer in the world.

Nibs probably indeed got pretty worried the Tour would be gone with one single flat in that last 8km.

I think this is the case really. They clearly didn't plan to lose everyone when they did and when you set off you know the pacing you're trying to keep and what is expected of everyone so it's always going to be stressful to find yourself so close to disaster.

The time loss wasn't a disaster by any means but it's never a good feeling.

Just needs some strong days through to next week now and then we'll see if we can get the party started

 

[bambino]

Today and tomorrow will show us whether he is in exceptional shape or not. These 2 stages are the ones where he will most likely lose some time to more explosive GC finishers. He is definitely in the shape to win it if he can come comfortably to the line with the main rivals (Froome, Porte, Bardet, Dumoulin, Landa, Quintana, Uran, Fuglsang...). Expecting the likes of Valverde, Thomas, Yates and Martin to gain few seconds which doesn't really matter.

 

[Eclipse]

Oh baby he looks good

 

[Lo squalo di messina]

He s looking good indeed
But it was a hard stage and they rode pretty hard which is better for him. Tommorow will be dangerous with only mur de bretagne.
Shame sonny couldnt win.

 

[skippo12]

Re:

Oh baby he looks good

This...if he can top 10 in an uphill sprint he is in a really good form. Hopefully he can do the same tomorrow.
There was small gap with 500m to go and he was the only GC rider to make the split. Valverde and Martin closed the gap.

 

[Carols]

A good day, looking strong and smooth

 

[Gigs_98]

He looked superb. Unfortunately the pace dropped since otherwise he might have taken a few seconds on his biggest rivals. Anyway, I'm really confident now. Guys like Froome are supposed to be better on this kind of finish yet Nibali seemingly easily passed him after being positioned a lot worse. I don't think there will be any time gaps tomorrow but if his shape really is as good as it looks he might cause havoc on Sunday.

 

[Rollthedice]

The secret? Horse meat. He loves it, the Italian TBM cook prepares delicious horse meat hamburgers.

 

[bambino]

He did deliver real message to all opponents today. Hope he can manage similarly tomorrow, but I don't see why not. If he can develop his shape towards the end of the GT as he normally does... it is going to be interesting.

 

[hazaran]

Wait, we're hyping Nibali because he finished 10th on this stage next to all the other contenders? On a silly stage like this?

If this is such a grand achievement you guys must be tipping Pasqualon, 9th and 30 years old, winner of the illustrious Skoda Tour, as an upcoming GC winner.

 

[skippo12]

Re:

Wait, we're hyping Nibali because he finished 10th on this stage next to all the other contenders? On a silly stage like this?

If this is such a grand achievement you guys must be tipping Pasqualon, 9th and 30 years old, winner of the illustrious Skoda Tour, as an upcoming GC winner.

Nibali lost a lot of time on similar finishes and muritos in the Vuelta last year. Him being good on muritos is not a given and indicates a really good form.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Wait, we're hyping Nibali because he finished 10th on this stage next to all the other contenders? On a silly stage like this?

If this is such a grand achievement you guys must be tipping Pasqualon, 9th and 30 years old, winner of the illustrious Skoda Tour, as an upcoming GC winner.

Traditionally he has been losing time to other GC contenders in such stage. Now he almost dropped Valverde, Martin et all 400 m before finish and seemingly easily followed Gilbert, GVA, Sagan and Colbrelli in short punchy uphill finish. Never seen that happening before, so give us a break to enjoy a situation that would past years been 5-10sec loss to Froome et co.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Wait, we're hyping Nibali because he finished 10th on this stage next to all the other contenders? On a silly stage like this?

If this is such a grand achievement you guys must be tipping Pasqualon, 9th and 30 years old, winner of the illustrious Skoda Tour, as an upcoming GC winner.

Go back to the Froome thread, you don't understand how Nibali operates.