Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

I was surprised when Pinot dropped him, Nibali was looking ok, comfortable following Pinots attacks, he poker face up until he was dropped was amazing

He was bluffing his way up to Civiglio, even riding along Pino. I'd say he wasn't even in his 2015 shape which makes this second place really amazing. He responded always seated and the fact he attacked 50 km to go was the only right decision to try and win the whole damn thing.

Cmon Nibali was good, certainly not at his best, but he was good. It was only 300meters before the civiglio top he cracked and Pinot is in superform so its no shame.

Pinot rode the fastest superga ascent ever and he and nibali rode the fastest sormano ascent ever. Ofcourse a super Nibali wouldve made this an even better duel, but the outcome was still up for grabs.

I wish we had civiglio times though.

Dan Martin six seconds faster than Pinot.

Civiglio 2018 (Martin) : 13’00 (13’24 for Nibbles)
Civiglio 2017 (Nibali-Pinot) : 12’45
Civiglio 2015 (Nibali-Pinot-Rosa-Moreno-Valverde) : 13’13

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I was surprised when Pinot dropped him, Nibali was looking ok, comfortable following Pinots attacks, he poker face up until he was dropped was amazing

He was bluffing his way up to Civiglio, even riding along Pino. I'd say he wasn't even in his 2015 shape which makes this second place really amazing. He responded always seated and the fact he attacked 50 km to go was the only right decision to try and win the whole damn thing.

Cmon Nibali was good, certainly not at his best, but he was good. It was only 300meters before the civiglio top he cracked and Pinot is in superform so its no shame.

Pinot rode the fastest superga ascent ever and he and nibali rode the fastest sormano ascent ever. Ofcourse a super Nibali wouldve made this an even better duel, but the outcome was still up for grabs.

I wish we had civiglio times though.

Dan Martin six seconds faster than Pinot.

Just 6 seconds while being out of the wind most of the time. Pinot was simply very good!

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

I was surprised when Pinot dropped him, Nibali was looking ok, comfortable following Pinots attacks, he poker face up until he was dropped was amazing

He was bluffing his way up to Civiglio, even riding along Pino. I'd say he wasn't even in his 2015 shape which makes this second place really amazing. He responded always seated and the fact he attacked 50 km to go was the only right decision to try and win the whole damn thing.

Cmon Nibali was good, certainly not at his best, but he was good. It was only 300meters before the civiglio top he cracked and Pinot is in superform so its no shame.

Pinot rode the fastest superga ascent ever and he and nibali rode the fastest sormano ascent ever. Ofcourse a super Nibali wouldve made this an even better duel, but the outcome was still up for grabs.

I wish we had civiglio times though.

200 meters from the top, 18 seconds lost, Nibali rode the Civiglio 39 seconds slower than last year. Of course it's not a shame, they rode a TT for 35 km before and indeed Tibo was in the form of his life, Nibs was good enough for the rest of the field but I'm not sure if he could have been able to respond and drop other strong riders if they come together on the Civiglio. Vincenzo did a perfect race suited to his current shape.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I was surprised when Pinot dropped him, Nibali was looking ok, comfortable following Pinots attacks, he poker face up until he was dropped was amazing

He was bluffing his way up to Civiglio, even riding along Pino. I'd say he wasn't even in his 2015 shape which makes this second place really amazing. He responded always seated and the fact he attacked 50 km to go was the only right decision to try and win the whole damn thing.

Cmon Nibali was good, certainly not at his best, but he was good. It was only 300meters before the civiglio top he cracked and Pinot is in superform so its no shame.

Pinot rode the fastest superga ascent ever and he and nibali rode the fastest sormano ascent ever. Ofcourse a super Nibali wouldve made this an even better duel, but the outcome was still up for grabs.

I wish we had civiglio times though.

200 meters from the top, 18 seconds lost, Nibali rode the Civiglio 39 seconds slower than last year. Of course it's not a shame, they rode a TT for 35 km before and indeed Tibo was in the form of his life, Nibs was good enough for the rest of the field but I'm not sure if he could have been able to respond and drop other strong riders if they come together on the Civiglio. Vincenzo did a perfect race suited to his current shape.

I'm convinced that if they wait for the Civiglio Pinot and Nibali get 1-2 with a less spectacular race.

 

[Tim Booth]

Et quiiii vient d'arriver ? Indice, il a terminé 2e du Tour de Lombardie hier.
https://twitter.com/ChronoNations/status/1051448614139174912

 

[Rollthedice]

Et quiiii vient d'arriver ? Indice, il a terminé 2e du Tour de Lombardie hier.
https://twitter.com/ChronoNations/status/1051448614139174912

 

[Red Rick]

Nibali finishes 8th place in Chrono des Nations, some 2'56 after Madsen.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Probably just getting a nice TT training in, he hasnt done many this year

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Probably just getting a nice TT training in, he hasnt done many this year

Or wants to get to prevent a 'least top 10s for monument winner' going up. This was his 8th top 10 this year.

 

[Climbing]

He said that have to work on his posture this winter, cause it's slightly incorrect at the moment after the broken vertebra and surgery.
Maybe just needed a proper TT test.

 

[Sestriere]

Re:

He said that have to work on his posture this winter, cause it's slightly incorrect at the moment after the broken vertebra and surgery.
Maybe just needed a proper TT test.

Dennis will need to tune himself into the Merida machine.. Anybody know if he will bring some experts over from BMC? Nibali should definitely try to profit from having the best TTer with the best material coming over to his team. Maybe grab Caruso and join Dennis in the windtunnel and on the track.

 

[Nirvana]

In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

 

[skippo12]

Re:

In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

Not really...he wouldn´t finish inside the top 10 in a flat time trial against the best of the world. GT time trials are a different story. He will be in the top 10 more often than not and can beat most GC riders (not Thomas, Froome, Dumoulin and Roglic). In the third week he usually is among the best in the TTs (Tour 2014, Vuelta, 2017).
In his peak seasons 2013 and 2014 he probably was among the best 10 time trialist in the world (4th and 1st in 2013 Giro, 4th in 2013 Vuelta, 4th in 2014 Tour).
Earlier in his career he tried his luck at the worlds but never finished inside the top 10.

 

[Nirvana]

[quote="Nirvana":10iidsf8]In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

Not really...he wouldn´t finish inside the top 10 in a flat time trial against the best of the world. GT time trials are a different story. He will be in the top 10 more often than not and can beat most GC riders (not Thomas, Froome, Dumoulin and Roglic). In the third week he usually is among the best in the TTs (Tour 2014, Vuelta, 2017).
In his peak seasons 2013 and 2014 he probably was among the best 10 time trialist in the world (4th and 1st in 2013 Giro, 4th in 2013 Vuelta, 4th in 2014 Tour).
Earlier in his career he tried his luck at the worlds but never finished inside the top 10.[/quote]
I think clearly stronger than him are Dumoulin, Dennis, Castroviejo, Thomas, Roglic, Froome, Kwiatkowski, Campenaers. Maybe Bevin and Bodnar on good days.
Martin and Kiryenka are declining sharply, Chavanel is now a former pro but was another in fast decline.
Riders like Matthews, van Emden, Moscon, Kung are contenders only because nowadays average TT length is around 25/30 kms, in a 50+ kms TT will be beaten by an in form Nibali.

In a long and hilly TT like the one of this year WC he could have been in the top 5. If he wouldn't have crashed in the RR he could have done very well in Rio where he was supposed to ride also the TT. I think that his TT ability is underrated as much as his descending skills are overrated.

When he rode the WC TT he was young and way below his level in the last years and he was throw in only because of the lack of other options for Italy and considering the fact that when he was at U23 and junior level he was the Italian TT hope (today sound funny but the one considered an overall future star was Visconti at that time).

 

[Rollthedice]

Gino Nibali and Fausto Pinotti.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Gino Nibali and Fausto Pinotti.

Thanks a lot

 

[shalgo]

Re:

Martin and Kiryenka are declining sharply

I don't buy this notion that Martin is in sharp decline in long, flat time trials. While he is no longer the best in the world, he is easily still one of the top five in the world in this discipline. It is just that he has had so few opportunities to ride them in recent years, given that the last two world championships time trials have been on hilly courses and that stage races have been favoring short and/or hilly TTs. In the Giro, which was the only long, flat TT he rode this year other than the German championships, Martin was second, behind Dennis but ahead of Dumoulin, Froome, and Campenaerts, among others.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

[quote="Nirvana":3p0zds2e]In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

Not really...he wouldn´t finish inside the top 10 in a flat time trial against the best of the world. GT time trials are a different story. He will be in the top 10 more often than not and can beat most GC riders (not Thomas, Froome, Dumoulin and Roglic). In the third week he usually is among the best in the TTs (Tour 2014, Vuelta, 2017).
In his peak seasons 2013 and 2014 he probably was among the best 10 time trialist in the world (4th and 1st in 2013 Giro, 4th in 2013 Vuelta, 4th in 2014 Tour).
Earlier in his career he tried his luck at the worlds but never finished inside the top 10.

I think clearly stronger than him are Dumoulin, Dennis, Castroviejo, Thomas, Roglic, Froome, Kwiatkowski, Campenaers. Maybe Bevin and Bodnar on good days.
Martin and Kiryenka are declining sharply, Chavanel is now a former pro but was another in fast decline.
Riders like Matthews, van Emden, Moscon, Kung are contenders only because nowadays average TT length is around 25/30 kms, in a 50+ kms TT will be beaten by an in form Nibali.

In a long and hilly TT like the one of this year WC he could have been in the top 5. If he wouldn't have crashed in the RR he could have done very well in Rio where he was supposed to ride also the TT. I think that his TT ability is underrated as much as his descending skills are overrated.

When he rode the WC TT he was young and way below his level in the last years and he was throw in only because of the lack of other options for Italy and considering the fact that when he was at U23 and junior level he was the Italian TT hope (today sound funny but the one considered an overall future star was Visconti at that time).[/quote]
TT-ing used to be also the thing that decreased least when he was in bad shape. His descending used to be better but has gotten comparatively worse - he is still very good, but not amazing.

 

[skippo12]

Re: Re:

[quote="Nirvana":25eg9o44]In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

Not really...he wouldn´t finish inside the top 10 in a flat time trial against the best of the world. GT time trials are a different story. He will be in the top 10 more often than not and can beat most GC riders (not Thomas, Froome, Dumoulin and Roglic). In the third week he usually is among the best in the TTs (Tour 2014, Vuelta, 2017).
In his peak seasons 2013 and 2014 he probably was among the best 10 time trialist in the world (4th and 1st in 2013 Giro, 4th in 2013 Vuelta, 4th in 2014 Tour).
Earlier in his career he tried his luck at the worlds but never finished inside the top 10.

I think clearly stronger than him are Dumoulin, Dennis, Castroviejo, Thomas, Roglic, Froome, Kwiatkowski, Campenaers. Maybe Bevin and Bodnar on good days.
Martin and Kiryenka are declining sharply, Chavanel is now a former pro but was another in fast decline.
Riders like Matthews, van Emden, Moscon, Kung are contenders only because nowadays average TT length is around 25/30 kms, in a 50+ kms TT will be beaten by an in form Nibali.

In a long and hilly TT like the one of this year WC he could have been in the top 5. If he wouldn't have crashed in the RR he could have done very well in Rio where he was supposed to ride also the TT. I think that his TT ability is underrated as much as his descending skills are overrated.

When he rode the WC TT he was young and way below his level in the last years and he was throw in only because of the lack of other options for Italy and considering the fact that when he was at U23 and junior level he was the Italian TT hope (today sound funny but the one considered an overall future star was Visconti at that time).

TT-ing used to be also the thing that decreased least when he was in bad shape. His descending used to be better but has gotten comparatively worse - he is still very good, but not amazing.[/quote]

Probably because his weight isn´t as relevant in time trials. Climbing with additional weight his harder than doing a flat timetrial.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

[quote="Nirvana":14g2q85s]In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

Not really...he wouldn´t finish inside the top 10 in a flat time trial against the best of the world. GT time trials are a different story. He will be in the top 10 more often than not and can beat most GC riders (not Thomas, Froome, Dumoulin and Roglic). In the third week he usually is among the best in the TTs (Tour 2014, Vuelta, 2017).
In his peak seasons 2013 and 2014 he probably was among the best 10 time trialist in the world (4th and 1st in 2013 Giro, 4th in 2013 Vuelta, 4th in 2014 Tour).
Earlier in his career he tried his luck at the worlds but never finished inside the top 10.

I think clearly stronger than him are Dumoulin, Dennis, Castroviejo, Thomas, Roglic, Froome, Kwiatkowski, Campenaers. Maybe Bevin and Bodnar on good days.
Martin and Kiryenka are declining sharply, Chavanel is now a former pro but was another in fast decline.
Riders like Matthews, van Emden, Moscon, Kung are contenders only because nowadays average TT length is around 25/30 kms, in a 50+ kms TT will be beaten by an in form Nibali.

In a long and hilly TT like the one of this year WC he could have been in the top 5. If he wouldn't have crashed in the RR he could have done very well in Rio where he was supposed to ride also the TT. I think that his TT ability is underrated as much as his descending skills are overrated.

When he rode the WC TT he was young and way below his level in the last years and he was throw in only because of the lack of other options for Italy and considering the fact that when he was at U23 and junior level he was the Italian TT hope (today sound funny but the one considered an overall future star was Visconti at that time).

TT-ing used to be also the thing that decreased least when he was in bad shape. His descending used to be better but has gotten comparatively worse - he is still very good, but not amazing.[/quote]

He seems to prefer to take less risks these days. Pinot's descending seems to have improved a lot. Now he should work on his TT.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

[quote="Nirvana":xc4x7ubf]In normal circumstances Nibali is in the top ten of world TTers, probably it's only due to the injury the he has been so bad today even if yesterday he was stronger than expected in Lombardia.

Not really...he wouldn´t finish inside the top 10 in a flat time trial against the best of the world. GT time trials are a different story. He will be in the top 10 more often than not and can beat most GC riders (not Thomas, Froome, Dumoulin and Roglic). In the third week he usually is among the best in the TTs (Tour 2014, Vuelta, 2017).
In his peak seasons 2013 and 2014 he probably was among the best 10 time trialist in the world (4th and 1st in 2013 Giro, 4th in 2013 Vuelta, 4th in 2014 Tour).
Earlier in his career he tried his luck at the worlds but never finished inside the top 10.

I think clearly stronger than him are Dumoulin, Dennis, Castroviejo, Thomas, Roglic, Froome, Kwiatkowski, Campenaers. Maybe Bevin and Bodnar on good days.
Martin and Kiryenka are declining sharply, Chavanel is now a former pro but was another in fast decline.
Riders like Matthews, van Emden, Moscon, Kung are contenders only because nowadays average TT length is around 25/30 kms, in a 50+ kms TT will be beaten by an in form Nibali.

In a long and hilly TT like the one of this year WC he could have been in the top 5. If he wouldn't have crashed in the RR he could have done very well in Rio where he was supposed to ride also the TT. I think that his TT ability is underrated as much as his descending skills are overrated.

When he rode the WC TT he was young and way below his level in the last years and he was throw in only because of the lack of other options for Italy and considering the fact that when he was at U23 and junior level he was the Italian TT hope (today sound funny but the one considered an overall future star was Visconti at that time).

TT-ing used to be also the thing that decreased least when he was in bad shape. His descending used to be better but has gotten comparatively worse - he is still very good, but not amazing.

Probably because his weight isn´t as relevant in time trials. Climbing with additional weight his harder than doing a flat timetrial.[/quote]
I don't think that when his shape is not good is a problem of weight. This year in Daphine he was terrible but he looked lean. He probably only need a lot of time to find the climbing form, expecially to be able to follow accelerations, last year even if he focused on the Vuelta in the second part of the season he looked way stronger in the races two/three weeks after the Vuelta.
I wonder what will happen if he tries to anticipate a couple of weeks his training tables for the GTs.

 

[Red Rick]

2017 I can understand cause Nibali's 2016 season effectively ended with his Olympics crash, so he barely did any racing between then and the 2017 season. He didn't really hit top form in that Giro, and I think he was clearly better in the Vuelta and didn't get close to winning cause Sky being Sky and Vuelta being Vuelta.

Can't help but wonder what he could've done at the Tour this year. I don't really think he would have had a big chance to win it, but I think he was getting into some great form on AdH and you can bet your kidneys Nibali would've at least gone for it at the Tourmalet.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

2017 I can understand cause Nibali's 2016 season effectively ended with his Olympics crash, so he barely did any racing between then and the 2017 season. He didn't really hit top form in that Giro, and I think he was clearly better in the Vuelta and didn't get close to winning cause Sky being Sky and Vuelta being Vuelta.

Can't help but wonder what he could've done at the Tour this year. I don't really think he would have had a big chance to win it, but I think he was getting into some great form on AdH and you can bet your kidneys Nibali would've at least gone for it at the Tourmalet.

Yeah, I don't see him winning that Tour, but finishing on the podium would have been possible.

 

[Nirvana]

Probably an hint for next season, Cyclingpro reports that in an interview for Il Messaggero he said that Liege is his favourite race and even if next season schedule is not decided yet he wants it as main target of the season.
Making Liege such a big target could mean no new shot for the Ronde (last year he said he needed a full program to be a real contender and that won't fit with being in top shape for Liege) and probably mean he'll return to the Tour since when he ride the Giro he's nowhere to be seen in Liege.

 

[Red Rick]

Pleasr no. Pleeeeaaaaaase

Just go full on Ardennes Olympics Worlds in 2020