Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[gregrowlerson]

I'm really only talking about the level of climbing and what he did in Val Thorens may simply be better than he could've done at the Vuelta cause an 80 minute climbs suits him that much more than all the 20 minute ascents of La Vuelta. I definitely think it was a stronger performance than any Giro mountain stage he did this year.

I agree that a climb like Val Thorens perfectly suits Nibali, but I think that was still a level below what he showed in the Giro, especially on Mortirolo. On VT the yellow jersey had pretty much been decided the previous day, and as we saw, the favourites didn't really go all out, at least not from any distance out. Nibali performed really well in the Giro imo.

 

[Red Rick]

I agree that a climb like Val Thorens perfectly suits Nibali, but I think that was still a level below what he showed in the Giro, especially on Mortirolo. On VT the yellow jersey had pretty much been decided the previous day, and as we saw, the favourites didn't really go all out, at least not from any distance out. Nibali performed really well in the Giro imo.

They didn't go all out early, but at the same time, on a very long climb very a fairly shallow gradient, drag is absolutely massive and Nibali only lost a minute to the fastest in the final 10km while the other guys were well sheltered behind domestiques and they were definitely going all out towards the end. And he did that in a 65km stage where he attacked and had to work on the flat.

Anywaaaay. Any comments from Nibali after the race yesterday?

 

[Rollthedice]

They didn't go all out early, but at the same time, on a very long climb very a fairly shallow gradient, drag is absolutely massive and Nibali only lost a minute to the fastest in the final 10km while the other guys were well sheltered behind domestiques and they were definitely going all out towards the end. And he did that in a 65km stage where he attacked and had to work on the flat.

Anywaaaay. Any comments from Nibali after the race yesterday?

Lights out VDP style. No energy left, no excuses. Finished the race because people are waiting to see him.

Now, let's see what could be his calendar for next year.

 

[Climbing]

Already said there will be no early start like TdU or Argentina and obviously double target OG and WC.

Now ideally there would no GT going for GC, something like spring classics, TdF prep for OG, then Vuelta + WC + Lombardia.

Of course Trek won't be happy for that, and probably Vincenzo himself neither, so I guess it will be weak spring + Giro for GC, than half TdF (or whatever else) preparation for OG, then Vuelta (not GC probably) + WC + Lombardia.

But then again 3 peaks aren't easy, so I'm not really sure.

 

[Red Rick]

Name me one rider that did 3 peaks and did it really well? He tried this year, and look what happened.

3rd peaks are basically, 'I did 2 peaks and then I had like 1 more week where I wasn't total garbage'

Depending on GT routes, I probably prefer first peak at Tour/Olympics, while skipping 3rd week, then Vuelta for GC and fall.

 

[Climbing]

Like I sai,d if he really wants OG + WC, should indeed "skip" spring classics and Giro, that way would be fresh for OG and end of the season.
Meaning TdF or whatever preparation for OG, rest, Vuelta GC + WC + Lombardia.

But I really doubt that is going to happen.

 

[Red Rick]

Like I sai,d if he really wants OG + WC, should indeed "skip" spring classics and Giro, that way would be fresh for OG and end of the season.
Meaning TdF or whatever preparation for OG, rest, Vuelta GC + WC + Lombardia.

But I really doubt that is going to happen.

They have Richie Porte for GCs man

 

[tobydawq]

They didn't go all out early, but at the same time, on a very long climb very a fairly shallow gradient, drag is absolutely massive and Nibali only lost a minute to the fastest in the final 10km while the other guys were well sheltered behind domestiques and they were definitely going all out towards the end. And he did that in a 65km stage where he attacked and had to work on the flat.

Anywaaaay. Any comments from Nibali after the race yesterday?

You really should get a new keyboard with an a button that doesn't get stuck all the time...

 

[Rollthedice]

They have Richie Porte for GCs man

Guercilena already hinted that LRP's days a grand tour contender are over and that he should focus on what he does best (Willunga included).

Back to Vincenzo, I am fairly sure he will do the Giro for the win, Sicily is calling, Trek wants him for GC. This would mean a similar programme as this year until Giro. I think the Olympic gold became more important to him than WCRR after Rio. For Nibali it still is the biggest disappointment of his career. I think he'll skip Le Tour as prep and choose maybe Austria and Poland. Then after OG, Vuelta, WCRR and autumn Italian classics.

 

[Red Rick]

Guercilena already hinted that LRP's days a grand tour contender are over and that he should focus on what he does best (Willunga included).

Back to Vincenzo, I am fairly sure he will do the Giro for the win, Sicily is calling, Trek wants him for GC. This would mean a similar programme as this year until Giro. I think the Olympic gold became more important to him than WCRR after Rio. For Nibali it still is the biggest disappointment of his career. I think he'll skip Le Tour as prep and choose maybe Austria and Poland. Then after OG, Vuelta, WCRR and autumn Italian classics.

This would make the Olympics almost as an intermediary goal between the major blocks of the season, but I suppose you can reach a really high level more than twice if you don't completely empty the tank. I think that's probably the biggest problem with Giro/Tour.

Olympics date also means it's further away from the Vuelta for what it's worth, but that shouldn't be for GC, but he also can't be as terrible as 2018 there.

 

[Nirvana]

I think only Valverde could peak for the Giro and then have a long peak between Olympics and Worlds, if Nibali decides to go to the Giro he has to choose between having a second peak for the Olympics and being crap in the fall or going to the Olympics as an unknown in the building phase for Vuelta and the fall.

As i said earlier IMHO the best program for who wants to focus on both Olympics and Worlds is a spring block until Ardennes then rest and build, two weeks of Tour, Olympics, Vuelta and Worlds but probably the majority of GC riders will still ride at least one of the Giro and Tour resulting in a pretty low level in Tokyo (at least the ones that six days before the ORR will be in Paris will be dead in Tokyo) with some random unexpected riders fighting for the win.

 

[SafeBet]

Whatever the schedule before the Olympics I see no reason in riding the Vuelta.
I actually believe his best shot at being super in both OG and WC is targeting the Tour while being crap the whole spring (like in 2014/15).

 

[Red Rick]

Whatever the schedule before the Olympics I see no reason in riding the Vuelta.
I actually believe his best shot at being super in both OG and WC is targeting the Tour while being crap the whole spring (like in 2014/15).

Pure OG/WC schedule is pretty similar to 2016 except different GTs.

Do 2.5 weeks of Tour while already starting in good form
Win Olympics
Rest
Rebuild training base before Vuelta
Use Vuelta for high intensity training
Win World Championship
fall off wagon
Help Bauke Mollema to victory in Il Lombardia 2020

 

[Nirvana]

Whatever the schedule before the Olympics I see no reason in riding the Vuelta.
I actually believe his best shot at being super in both OG and WC is targeting the Tour while being crap the whole spring (like in 2014/15).

But the Vuelta is the perfect way to prepare for the fall, Nibali himself said last week that riders that come off the Vuelta in a good way have a far superior form compared to others in the fall.

Anyway i don't think a partial peak to be competitive in march/april could be a problem if after the Ardennes there is a phase of rest and then rebuild before the Tour.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

But the Vuelta is the perfect way to prepare for the fall, Nibali himself said last week that riders that come off the Vuelta in a good way have a far superior form compared to others in the fall.

Bernal, Woods, Mollema didn't race it...

Woods probably hit his best form of the season, too.

 

[Nirvana]

Bernal, Woods, Mollema didn't race it...

Woods probably hit his best form of the season, too.

Nibali said that Valverde and Roglic were the strongest in the italian races because of the Vuelta.

 

[Blanco]

Bernal, Woods, Mollema didn't race it...

Woods probably hit his best form of the season, too.

Mollema hit the best form of his life

 

[Red Rick]

laughs in 2015 Nibali

 

[SafeBet]

laughs in 2015 Nibali

Exactly. Dominant fall campaign without riding the Vuelta (unless riding a couple of stages automatically gives you that boost everybody is talking about).
Most recent World Champions didn't ride the Vuelta (Pedersen, Sagan x2, Kwia, Rui Costa).

 

[Blanco]

Nibali said that Valverde and Roglic were the strongest in the italian races because of the Vuelta.

They were, but..

 

[Rollthedice]

laughs in 2015 Nibali

Better laughs in 2017. Whatever we think here, there's no way he doesn't do a GT for the GC next year. 99% it will be the Giro.

 

[Rollthedice]

Nibali about the Giro in Gazzetta dello Sport:

"Compared to the last edition, it seems to me to be better designed and more balanced. I like the fact that in the first part there will be an uphill finish, which was missing in 2019. I'm talking about Etna, the side that will be tackled in 2020 I tried in training although I'm not sure, since it has so many. On paper, however, it seems like an interesting stage."

"I don't like the last stage being a time trial. Of course, if the first ones are within a few seconds it could be decisive, but after all the mountains and efforts I don't know if it's right".

"Even in 2019 there were three (TT). The initial one in Budapest is fine, as is that of Prosecco, which is very interesting".

"There will be no shortage of pitfalls, such as the final in Camigliatello Stilano, where I see that it climbs a few kilometers from the finish line. Or the stage of the 9 Colli which is not easy at all. Piancavallo's stage was also challenging".

"Over 2000 meters we will have at our disposal Stelvio, Colle dell'Agnello, Izoard. We will also see how the weather will be, if you can climb or there will be problems with the snow as happened recently. "

"I think the stage with Colle dell'Agnello, Izoard and Monginevro will be decisive. On paper there is the ground for a Froome-2018 style action. "

 

[Red Rick]

Seems to be stating facts as opinions.

 

[Oliver]

I think he will skip the ardennes, target GC in Giro, take a break, training camp, Tour (not for GC), second peak to the olympics. Break, no vuelta, 1-day races and WC. Olympics are more important then WC.
The Giro is important for him, the route is not bad, it depends a lot to the major GC concurrents (with the time trials). One stage with a nice descent in the finale is missing a bit.

 

[KZD]

I like his ambition but I fear the Giro GC is a bit of an overkill.
I also hope he only does two weeks in the Tour to arrive fresher to Tokyo.