Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[SHAD0W93]

Regardless of what forum/thread you are talking in, I think that Horner's performance in that Vuelta is the biggest mystery in modern cycling. He had shown some climbing ability previously, but nothing to suggest ever competing for a podium in a GT, and at his age...

He did say in 2009 or 2010 he was as good of a climber as Contador and everyone should watch out.

 

[gregrowlerson]

He did say in 2009 or 2010 he was as good of a climber as Contador and everyone should watch out.

That's true. But why did he never show anything in a GT for a decade or so that he raced in Europe (until that Vuelta)? There wasn't ONE stage of him keeping with the heads of state on ANY GT stage He usually couldn't even keep up with Cadel Evans until the start of the final climb to help him on multi mountain stages when he was his domestique at Lotto. It just made zero sense, on any level.

 

[SHAD0W93]

That's true. But why did he never show anything in a GT for a decade or so that he raced in Europe (until that Vuelta)? There wasn't ONE stage of him keeping with the heads of state on ANY GT stage He usually couldn't even keep up with Cadel Evans until the start of the final climb to help him on multi mountain stages when he was his domestique at Lotto. It just made zero sense, on any level.

Since it was all part of his master plan to win the Vuelta when no one suspected it. He was planning on the 2011 Tour but of course got injured, otherwise he would have won 7 stages, KoM, PC, and YR (because he found the fountain of youth so was below 25) so had to settle for the Vuelta.

Otherwise I don't know, a poster before argued since he was always supporting others but I don't know much of his pre 2009 career besides him beating up the smaller scenes.

 

[SHAD0W93]

That's true. But why did he never show anything in a GT for a decade or so that he raced in Europe (until that Vuelta)? There wasn't ONE stage of him keeping with the heads of state on ANY GT stage He usually couldn't even keep up with Cadel Evans until the start of the final climb to help him on multi mountain stages when he was his domestique at Lotto. It just made zero sense, on any level.

Added; it is probably telling he never was on USPS or Discovery. Usually all the prominent Americans raced for them.

 

[Merckx index]

why did he never show anything in a GT for a decade or so that he raced in Europe (until that Vuelta)? There wasn't ONE stage of him keeping with the heads of state on ANY GT stage

He was top 10 in the 2010 TDF, and finished high on the Tourmalet in stage 17. Also did well in stage 17 in 2012, finishing well ahead of Evans.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He was top 10 in the 2010 TDF, and finished high on the Tourmalet in stage 17.

While he did do well on Tourmalet, his top 10 was helped with the 6'25" he got from a breakaway the day before. His top 10 was among many of random riders gaining it from a breakaway.

 

[gregrowlerson]

While he did do well on Tourmalet, his top 10 was helped with the 6'25" he got from a breakaway the day before. His top 10 was among many of random riders gaining it from a breakaway.

And he was still TWELVE minutes behind yellow.

He would have even finished behind Kloden under 'normal' circumstances. Bloody breakaways!

Jeez, now I really hope that Andreas didn't get into a break on that Tour

 

[gregrowlerson]

He was top 10 in the 2010 TDF, and finished high on the Tourmalet in stage 17. Also did well in stage 17 in 2012, finishing well ahead of Evans.

A lot of riders finished well ahead of Evans. He rather fell apart in that Tour.

That stage was a handy performance from Horner, but he was only a dozen seconds ahead of a well past it Kloden, and still comfortably behind Nibali. And Nibali was a stronger GT rider in 2013 than in 2012. The turnaround to beating Nibali in the 2013 Vuelta (especially considering their respective ages) is staggering.

 

[Red Rick]

On that subject

Nibali personally going after Horner on the Hautacam in 2014 was the most petty thing I've ever seen in cycling and I absolutely loved it.

 

[Alexandre B.]

On that subject

Nibali personally going after Horner on the Hautacam in 2014 was the most petty thing I've ever seen in cycling and I absolutely loved it.

You saw the Italian pettily chasing the American, but you never saw the American pettily chasing the Italian ten years earlier?

 

[gregrowlerson]

On that subject

Nibali personally going after Horner on the Hautacam in 2014 was the most petty thing I've ever seen in cycling and I absolutely loved it.

I don't even remember this, but it sounds hilarious.

I may have watched the pyrenees that tour, but I think that after Contador crashed and Porte collapsed, my spirit had gone. It was just Nibali taking 1-2 minutes on every mountain stage, almost Armstrong style.

 

[Sestriere]

On that subject

Nibali personally going after Horner on the Hautacam in 2014 was the most petty thing I've ever seen in cycling and I absolutely loved it.

After digging up all those negtive memories, this will certainly help ahead of today's race ^^

 

[Red Rick]

After digging up all those negtive memories, this will certainly help ahead of today's race ^^

It's maddening he never found that form and went up against Contador/Quintana/Froome in a GT again. think at least 3 MTFs he was softpedalling while dropping almost everyone, winning 1. The lone exception is stage 19 of the 2015 Tour IMO, where he did the fastest Glandon, fastest Mollar, then did the 3rd fastest Toussuire while all alone.

 

[gregrowlerson]

It's maddening he never found that form and went up against Contador/Quintana/Froome in a GT again. think at least 3 MTFs he was softpedalling while dropping almost everyone, winning 1. The lone exception is stage 19 of the 2015 Tour IMO, where he did the fastest Glandon, fastest Mollar, then did the 3rd fastest Toussuire while all alone.

I don't know the numbers, but he seemed on great form the last two mountain stages of that incredible 2016 Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't even remember this, but it sounds hilarious.

I may have watched the pyrenees that tour, but I think that after Contador crashed and Porte collapsed, my spirit had gone. It was just Nibali taking 1-2 minutes on every mountain stage, almost Armstrong style.

He won Chamrousse really easily, then on Risoul, Majka won from the break (but still with a really good climb), and he wasn't really trying, until Peraud tried to sprint for second. Nibs gave him the "what the *** you doing" before dropping him in the saddle. Similar thing happened on Pla d'Adet. He wasn't really trying to win.

 

[Rollthedice]

I don't know the numbers, but he seemed on great form the last two mountain stages of that incredible 2016 Giro.

There weren't special numbers in Giro 2016. Tour 2014 was overall in numbers similar to Froome 2013.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't know the numbers, but he seemed on great form the last two mountain stages of that incredible 2016 Giro.

It was good, but nothing crazy. 2016-2018 had a lot of that imo.

 

[Red Rick]

There weren't special numbers in Giro 2016. Tour 2014 was overall in numbers similar to Froome 2013.

Yeah I think the only climb that was comparatively fast was Passo Giau if we compare it to a few previous years and Giau often is in the middle of a stage at a snail pace.

Between 2013, 2014, and 2015 it's hard to compare cause Sky train increased W/kg and increased gaps a lot putting riders into the red way earlier. I might be inclined to believe Ax Bonascre/PSM was a bit better than Nibs but Froome was significantly biased to long flat, practiacl unipuerto stages and was significantly worse in the Alps both years, so I'd assume Nibs would've pounced there. Also Nibs did a faster ITT in 2015.

Furthermore, mild sadfaces at stage cancellations and weak opposition in 2013 Giro, and about sacrificing his 2015 Vuelta for a moment of sheer hilarity.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Oh yeah, kinda caught for drink driving.

 

[gregrowlerson]

The longer that time goes on (and we are further removed from the emotions of those moments), the less likely it seems to me that either Froome or Contador defeats Nibali in that 2014 Tour if they don't crash out.

You know, since nobody has ever discussed this on this forum

 

[Climbing]

I think decent signals for next 10 days, we'll see.

 

[Rollthedice]

I think decent signals for next 10 days, we'll see.

Couldn't do more today. Next week Lombardia, bigger expectations.

 

[Rollthedice]

Reactions:

'Van Aert had already proved to be the favorite of the day, at the Strade Bianche he had gone very strong. I'm satisfied with what I did. Maybe I attacked too early, I launched the action for Alaphilippe but unfortunately I missed the legs to follow him. On the Poggio I missed that component of explosiveness that he and Van Aert have."

"I think, as a team, we interpreted the race as we should, we have little to reproach ourselves for. We didn't have fast riders and we could only play our chances by attacking and so we did. In the end, I repeat, I'm happy with the way my legs responded, even considering the very few days of racing behind us. Even if the result wasn't there, it was a good race. On the new Milano-Sanremo I can say that it was a different race. The course was tricky but I think the heat did more damage today."

 

[Climbing]

You missed at the end:
"Expectations for Lombardia?"
"We'll see" (vediamo©) which was Bugno trademark comment.

I suspect he might be good, but best will be in Worlds / Giro.
We'll see!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Vincenzo: Hey Remco; check out my trophy cabinet!
Remco: Hmmm...very nice. An almost complete palmares! But I only see one Giro trophy. And I know you have won many, many races, but this is a large and heavy looking trophy; just where is your second Giro hidden?
Vincenzo: Yes, it is an impressive monument. But you just need to look a little closer....

WHAM! BAM! KAPOW!

Not sure if mere voodoo will work on this kid. Might be the only way he is going to crack.