Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[SeriousSam]

The lengths some will go to to deny Nibali the honour of being the most successful stage racer in the last 2 years, breathtaking.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

Who did Froome beat in TdF 2013? Off-shape Contador and a guy whose only GT victory is by barely beating Uran?

yea and by Stelvio 'gate'! Omg he should be stripped of that win
you are too much ridiculous --- onto ignore.(CarolS philosophy )

That was sarcasm aimed at Miburo's previous comment saying that Nibali's GTs victories doesn't mean a lot because he only beat riders like Pinot and Uran.....
But your confirmation bias is truly amazing

 

[Netserk]

Re:

The lengths some will go to to deny Nibali the honour of being the most successful stage racer in the last 2 years, breathtaking.

Last 24 months:

Nibali: 1st TdF, 2nd VaE & 3rd Burgos

Froome: 1st TdF, 2nd VaE, 1st Dauphiné, 1st, Romandie, 1st Oman, 1st Ruta Del So &, 3rd Romandie


Now if we only count the last two years (2014 & 2015):

Nibali: 1st TdF

Contador: 1st GdI, 1st VaE, 1st VaPV, 1st T-A, 2nd Dauphiné, 2nd Catalunya, 2nd Algarve, 3rd Ruta Del Sol

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

The lengths some will go to to deny Nibali the honour of being the most successful stage racer in the period staring when he won the Giro to now, breathtaking.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

The lengths some will go to to deny Nibali the honour of being the most successful stage racer in the period staring when he won the Giro to now, breathtaking.

Can you name me a single one who has done that?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I read it as his saying Quintana hasn't shown him anything this year, which is odd considering Quintana won a major stage race in his country this year. It seems a bit contradictory for him to say that he's not "obsessed" with the Tour but his season shows that there is no other event up to this point in the season that even warrants him making an effort to win or being fit enough to do so. He may not be obsessed with the Tour but he's completely altered his racing seasons the past two years where nothing else matters but the Tour. It worked for him last year which is fine. We won't get into the story behind that success. In the past 2 years he has no real results to speak of (with the exception of his Italian national championship) other than the Tour. He's become the Italian version of a certain shamed rider. Add me to the list of folk that misses the old Vincenzo. Here's hoping that his statements about the Tour will lead to him making himself a factor in the future at other major races on the calendar.

Giro 2013? 2nd in Vuelta 2013? The most successful GT rider in last 2 years. No clue what you are talking about.
Nevertheless, if he doesn't win the Tour then there are lots of other races to target post July

Have no clue either what Angrilu is talking about, apart from a consternation about Nibali having to focus on the Tour. That is his job. Do I miss Nibali of Liquigas? yes.

Angrilu, basically you have your opinion. I respect you as a knowledgeable poster but overall I do not usually agree with your posts when you are on about Vincenzo Nibali - I read you, but simply think it's not worth discussing Nibali with you. Contador, sure. Nibali, no. Speaking respectfully.

To avoid further confusion, the above post should be seen as my post and not damien13ster's. He was responding to my post.

Let it be clear that I have the utmost respect for Nibali. I simply and selfishly wish he would return to being the rider that made many of us admirers of his vast abilities and tactical expertise. As it is now we get to witness that Nibali only in July. It remains to be seen if he will resurface after the Tour. I suspect that when, as I expect, when fails in his effort to defend his Tour crown, that he will then seek to make up for his early lack of results by chasing success in some of the remaining big events.

 

[jalep]

I read it as his saying Quintana hasn't shown him anything this year, which is odd considering Quintana won a major stage race in his country this year. It seems a bit contradictory for him to say that he's not "obsessed" with the Tour but his season shows that there is no other event up to this point in the season that even warrants him making an effort to win or being fit enough to do so. He may not be obsessed with the Tour but he's completely altered his racing seasons the past two years where nothing else matters but the Tour. It worked for him last year which is fine. We won't get into the story behind that success. In the past 2 years he has no real results to speak of (with the exception of his Italian national championship) other than the Tour. He's become the Italian version of a certain shamed rider. Add me to the list of folk that misses the old Vincenzo. Here's hoping that his statements about the Tour will lead to him making himself a factor in the future at other major races on the calendar.

Let it be clear that I have the utmost respect for Nibali. I simply and selfishly wish he would return to being the rider that made many of us admirers of his vast abilities and tactical expertise. As it is now we get to witness that Nibali only in July. It remains to be seen if he will resurface after the Tour. I suspect that when, as I expect, when fails in his effort to defend his Tour crown, that he will then seek to make up for his early lack of results by chasing success in some of the remaining big events.

Thank you for clarifying, Angrilu. And as I said, you make your point, it's your opinion. Just pretty much disagree everything bolded, the negativity and harsh perception/judgment; especially can't appreciate or share your comparison to an "Italian version of a certain shamed rider". I'm not sure who you are talking about exactly, not that I'm in denial or naïve on the subject, but didn't want to go there in reply to you - belongs in the clinic.

Again, I am not new here. Could not sign in as pigoonse nor could I get a response from CN. So signed in with a new username. Very familiar with your posts and can appreciate your expertise, posts and comments about cycling in general, especially about Contador.

 

[Electress]

I'm very much with Angliru, but whatever happens, let's just hope he isn't forced to go bear hunting in the woods outside Almaty like before.

 

[cellardoor]

Re:

I read it as his saying Quintana hasn't shown him anything this year, which is odd considering Quintana won a major stage race in his country this year. It seems a bit contradictory for him to say that he's not "obsessed" with the Tour but his season shows that there is no other event up to this point in the season that even warrants him making an effort to win or being fit enough to do so. He may not be obsessed with the Tour but he's completely altered his racing seasons the past two years where nothing else matters but the Tour. It worked for him last year which is fine. We won't get into the story behind that success. In the past 2 years he has no real results to speak of (with the exception of his Italian national championship) other than the Tour. He's become the Italian version of a certain shamed rider. Add me to the list of folk that misses the old Vincenzo. Here's hoping that his statements about the Tour will lead to him making himself a factor in the future at other major races on the calendar.

Let it be clear that I have the utmost respect for Nibali. I simply and selfishly wish he would return to being the rider that made many of us admirers of his vast abilities and tactical expertise. As it is now we get to witness that Nibali only in July. It remains to be seen if he will resurface after the Tour. I suspect that when, as I expect, when fails in his effort to defend his Tour crown, that he will then seek to make up for his early lack of results by chasing success in some of the remaining big events.

Thank you for clarifying, Angrilu. And as I said, you make your point, it's your opinion. Just pretty much disagree everything bolded, the negativity and harsh perception/judgment; especially can't appreciate or share your comparison to an "Italian version of a certain shamed rider". I'm not sure who you are talking about exactly, not that I'm in denial or naïve on the subject, but didn't want to go there in reply to you - belongs in the clinic.

Again, I am not new here. Could not sign in as pigoonse nor could I get a response from CN. So signed in with a new username. Very familiar with your posts and can appreciate your expertise, posts and comments about cycling in general, especially about Contador.

Hi Jalep...in what sense do you disagree with the bit you bolded as it seems to be more or less a fact. I like Nibali, but I can't deny that his 2014 and 2015 seasons have followed a similar sort of pattern to Armstrong. I.e. A half-hearted showing in a couple of spring races, followed by no sign of life until at least the Dauphine. It remains to be seen what he does after the Tour, but last year is a pretty strong indicator that if he wins the Tour he'll probably end his season. If you're just saying that you're happy to see him target the Tour and consequently be very strong at the Tour then that's fair enough.

 

[jalep]

Re: Re:

I read it as his saying Quintana hasn't shown him anything this year, which is odd considering Quintana won a major stage race in his country this year. It seems a bit contradictory for him to say that he's not "obsessed" with the Tour but his season shows that there is no other event up to this point in the season that even warrants him making an effort to win or being fit enough to do so. He may not be obsessed with the Tour but he's completely altered his racing seasons the past two years where nothing else matters but the Tour. It worked for him last year which is fine. We won't get into the story behind that success. In the past 2 years he has no real results to speak of (with the exception of his Italian national championship) other than the Tour. He's become the Italian version of a certain shamed rider. Add me to the list of folk that misses the old Vincenzo. Here's hoping that his statements about the Tour will lead to him making himself a factor in the future at other major races on the calendar.

Let it be clear that I have the utmost respect for Nibali. I simply and selfishly wish he would return to being the rider that made many of us admirers of his vast abilities and tactical expertise. As it is now we get to witness that Nibali only in July. It remains to be seen if he will resurface after the Tour. I suspect that when, as I expect, when fails in his effort to defend his Tour crown, that he will then seek to make up for his early lack of results by chasing success in some of the remaining big events.

Thank you for clarifying, Angrilu. And as I said, you make your point, it's your opinion. Just pretty much disagree everything bolded, the negativity and harsh perception/judgment; especially can't appreciate or share your comparison to an "Italian version of a certain shamed rider". I'm not sure who you are talking about exactly, not that I'm in denial or naïve on the subject, but didn't want to go there in reply to you - belongs in the clinic.

Again, I am not new here. Could not sign in as pigoonse nor could I get a response from CN. So signed in with a new username. Very familiar with your posts and can appreciate your expertise, posts and comments about cycling in general, especially about Contador.

Hi Jalep...in what sense do you disagree with the bit you bolded as it seems to be more or less a fact. I like Nibali, but I can't deny that his 2014 and 2015 seasons have followed a similar sort of pattern to Armstrong. I.e. A half-hearted showing in a couple of spring races, followed by no sign of life until at least the Dauphine. It remains to be seen what he does after the Tour, but last year is a pretty strong indicator that if he wins the Tour he'll probably end his season. If you're just saying that you're happy to see him target the Tour and consequently be very strong at the Tour then that's fair enough.

Hello Cellardoor, like your username, And thanks for the questions above. Pardon me, I am still getting used to replying in the newer CN format.

As to Nibali's 2014 and 2015 seasons, yes it's undeniable that Nibali has parted from , (what I think is more characteristic of his career prior to 14' and 15' seasons), and gone to targeting only the tour. As to being similar to Armstrong in any other aspect, I have to disagree or at least postpone that kind of judgment until more time passes. Maybe he will, maybe he won't look like Armstrong at the end of his career. At this point, I'd say that goes too far and is a rather cynical way of looking at Nibs. Not ready to write Nibs off as such or pronounce him guilty.

Then there is a big difference between how I read the comments made by Nibali in the CN article yesterday and how others here, in particular Angrilu, read and interpret Nibali. Would prefer watching a video interview of him speaking in his language over relying solely on English language media translation and posters reading stuff into what he says which can be pure personal bias and conjecture. It's a lost in translation scenario = my opinion.

And I'm lazy at this hour of the morning my time, so I'll include below the exchange I had with Damian13ster for you to be clear about my opinion as to what Nibali meant in the interview:

*waves to Carols and Electress*

Just read the article, I like what Nibs says about being defending champion especially this part: "...but winning the Tour de France is not an obsession for me because obsession makes you feel tired."

So true. Hope he can really be tranquillo, not obsess and enjoy the honor and pressure. That's the old Nibali I love watching ride a bike - no fear, win or lose. Can't wait to watch this tour unfold.

And love his compliments to how Contador won the Giro: "The Giro didn't teach me anything new about him that I didn't already know. He got stronger after the first week and in the third week he was looking around and administrating who was going to attack."

He respects Contador and knows him well.

I don't read anything negative into what he said about Quintana's whereabouts. He doesn't know where he is. Every single word he says the media will look to scrutinize and twist into something if possible - so he had to qualify a perfectly natural question by saying it's not a criticism.

He seems to be in a good mental shape.
I thought it was a bit of a shot at Contador, saying that he didn't even win a single stage.
He also said that all 3 of his rivals are at the same level which is not singling or praising anyone out.

He does seem in good mental shape. ( I don't agree with jayseattles translation). He isn't saying he's not racing to win TdF by saying he's learned from experience (winning a few GT's) that it is less draining to not be obsessed with the idea, not to get ahead of oneself, conserve mental energy in favor of taking the approach of remaining in the moment. Take it day by day and do what you can to find ways to maximize your chances along the way.

As to his comment about Contador not winning a stage at the Giro, you might be right about the shot. But even if that's the case, don't you think Nibali has to understand that Contador has tried a Giro-Tour before and Nibs possibly can't help but notice that Contador is being efficient, as opposed to 2011. lol, that might be why the little dig, sure. Or he's just stating another, "Non e una critica, e una fatto." Nibali doesn't underestimate Contador's ability and has said himself that: if anyone can do the Giro-Tour, it's Contador. He doesn't need to repeat that statement right now.

I'd like to watch the interview. Not that my Italian is close to fluent - but you can tell so much more by body language, facial expression, voice inflection. Reading the words on a page isn't the same. Stating that his main rivals are at the same level is simply a neutral statement, you are right.

All in all, very happy to hear from him

again, Cellardoor, thanks. If still not clear, let me know. But for now, yes, I'm fine with Nibs doing what he has to do. Hope it is not for the rest of his career, however. Came to appreciate watching him, win or lose, the way he rode with Liquigas. But getting his TdF win last year was great. One TdF win would be enough for this fan. Would be a shame if he doesn't go back to targeting more than TdF.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

As to being similar to Armstrong in any other aspect, I have to disagree or at least postpone that kind of judgment until more time passes. Maybe he will, maybe he won't look like Armstrong at the end of his career. At this point, I'd say that goes too far and is a rather cynical way of looking at Nibs. Not ready to write Nibs off as such or pronounce him guilty.

I didn't mean to insinuate anything with my Armstrong reference other than the similar approach to their seasons (of late, in regards to Nibali). I was thinking of mentioning Andy instead and then I remembered he won a spring classic, so not the best example

 

[jalep]

Re: Re:

cellardoor says:

I didn't mean to insinuate anything with my Armstrong reference other than the similar approach to their seasons (of late, in regards to Nibali). I was thinking of mentioning Andy instead and then I remembered he won a spring classic, so not the best example

jalep replies, still awkward with posting differently than old CN format:

Okay, I get it...hahaha.....

Was thinking of Andy too but then confused because there were others to rule in or out. Armstrong and his 7 TdF wins/ non-wins, is extreme.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I read it as his saying Quintana hasn't shown him anything this year, which is odd considering Quintana won a major stage race in his country this year. It seems a bit contradictory for him to say that he's not "obsessed" with the Tour but his season shows that there is no other event up to this point in the season that even warrants him making an effort to win or being fit enough to do so. He may not be obsessed with the Tour but he's completely altered his racing seasons the past two years where nothing else matters but the Tour. It worked for him last year which is fine. We won't get into the story behind that success. In the past 2 years he has no real results to speak of (with the exception of his Italian national championship) other than the Tour. He's become the Italian version of a certain shamed rider. Add me to the list of folk that misses the old Vincenzo. Here's hoping that his statements about the Tour will lead to him making himself a factor in the future at other major races on the calendar.

Let it be clear that I have the utmost respect for Nibali. I simply and selfishly wish he would return to being the rider that made many of us admirers of his vast abilities and tactical expertise. As it is now we get to witness that Nibali only in July. It remains to be seen if he will resurface after the Tour. I suspect that when, as I expect, when fails in his effort to defend his Tour crown, that he will then seek to make up for his early lack of results by chasing success in some of the remaining big events.

Thank you for clarifying, Angrilu. And as I said, you make your point, it's your opinion. Just pretty much disagree everything bolded, the negativity and harsh perception/judgment; especially can't appreciate or share your comparison to an "Italian version of a certain shamed rider". I'm not sure who you are talking about exactly, not that I'm in denial or naïve on the subject, but didn't want to go there in reply to you - belongs in the clinic.

Again, I am not new here. Could not sign in as pigoonse nor could I get a response from CN. So signed in with a new username. Very familiar with your posts and can appreciate your expertise, posts and comments about cycling in general, especially about Contador.

And it's "Angliru" not "Angrilu". Makes it seem like I'm mad all the time! The Armstrong reference was made with absolutely nothing clinical intended, just the similarities in their very narrow focused seasons. It could be argued that in 2014 & 2015 Nibali's, results wise, is even narrower than Armstrong's. Armstrong would regularly podium or win one of the major week long stage races (TdS or Duaphine).

 

[classicomano]

I dont understand how anyone can be a supporter of Nibali anymore, all he does now is *** around all season until the Tour and then destroy everyone. The End.

 

[whittashau]

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Agreed.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Yeah, but it's shitty to watch.

 

[Miburo]

Not true, nibali was going all out last year, he wasn't riding to watts, maybe this year but not last year. Look back at stage 2 of the dauphine last year.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Funny thing is when Sky was riding the train based on numbers he said it would be good to ban the SRM.

 

[jalep]

Re: Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Funny thing is when Sky was riding the train based on numbers he said it would be good to ban the SRM.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Funny how everyone is on the resent Nibali bandwagon these days. This is the 2nd season he's been riding like this - not animating races other than TdF.

I give him more time. The old Nibs is still in there, somewhere.

 

[Carols]

Well that was disappointing to put it mildly. Hopefully Nibs and Astana have much more to show us soon.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Funny thing is when Sky was riding the train based on numbers he said it would be good to ban the SRM.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Funny how everyone is on the resent Nibali bandwagon these days. This is the 2nd season he's been riding like this - not animating races other than TdF.

I give him more time. The old Nibs is still in there, somewhere.

Geez I sure hope so! Yesterday he made a little dig when the opportunity was there.

I doubt he is riding to watts, that just wouldn't be the Nibs we've known for his entire career. So that means he was empty early which isn't very pleasant to contemplate either

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Funny thing is when Sky was riding the train based on numbers he said it would be good to ban the SRM.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Funny how everyone is on the resent Nibali bandwagon these days. This is the 2nd season he's been riding like this - not animating races other than TdF.

I give him more time. The old Nibs is still in there, somewhere.

I'm sure it is. I the 'resent Nibali bandwagon' it as a measure of how Nibali was previously appreciated for the way he race. What you're seeing is people's disappointment at the change. I feel it too but I'll honestly be delighted if / when he shows me his true colours again.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Re:

I said it last season at the Dauphine and people ridiculed me for suggesting it, but it seems to me that Nibs is simply riding to a certain amount of watts, or a certain heart rate and then chooses to back off.

Yeah, but it's shitty to watch.

Yep it is *** to watch !. And even more *** unless he wins Tour.

 

[Pentacycle]

The only way to get old Nibz back is if he gets absolutely destroyed in July.