Vincenzo Nibali

[sniper]

I noticed Nibbles has incredibly narrow shoulders.
Would anybody reckon narrow shoulders provides any physiological advantage or disadvantage going uphill?
As opposed to Nibali, guys like Wiggins, Contador and Armstrong have quite broad shoulders (at least compared to their hips).

I realize these guys race with their legs and lungs, not their shoulders. But you do need strong shoulders to pull, especially going uphill (right?).
Anyway, a bit like Froome, Nibbles doesn't strike me as a very natural athlete either.

 

[King Boonen]

Do you remember what Wiggo did to Nibbles in Wiggo's tour?

I do, I know there are problems with it but the parcours of Wiggos tour pretty much dictated that it was going to be ridden the way it was. I think Nibali would have been pushed more in this tour if Sky or Saxo were still there to push the base pace on the climbs, but I've also always said comparing different tours and performances is very hard with too many variables to be anywhere near accurate.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Might as well tell this story here.

A while back I was talking to a Italian friend, long time professional rider and now works for a ProTour team. At the time he was still racing. Nibali's name came up and I said it was only a matter of time before he gets caught. My friend was a bit taken aback, said he thought Nibali was clean. He knows Nibali but he is also lifelong friends with Vanotti, Nibali's primary training partner and teammate. He said Vanotti swears Nibali is clean. They had many deep discussions about it, spent hours/weeks/years together and he was convinced.

I would love to be able to believe that, but something keeps stopping me. Oh yeah, it's the pictures on my TV screen. Well that and the Ferrari rumors.

Yes, yes it was (is!). My new frame is 853, I like it just as much.

I still have a few of my old race bikes from the 70's and 80's and it doesn't take much more than a trip around the block to see exactly how much better modern equipment is, lighter, more comfortable, more aerodynamic, more efficient, more gears. WE must have been real men to race on those things! Ah well, the older I get the faster I used to be.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I've got my bike weights written down from the light Motobecane Ocana was riding (8.4) and Van Impe's Gitane (8.5) to Thevenet's Peugeot (10.0) and Zoetemelk's Raleigh (10.2) back in the 1970's and 1980's. At 6.0 watts per kilo over 30-35 mins you get a difference of 1-2 mins against a 6.8kg bike.

The only person deluded here is you.

I don't care what your data is, if you think Nibali is clean, you're an idiot mathematician...and a deluded one...

 

[the delgados]

Might as well tell this story here.

A while back I was talking to a Italian friend, long time professional rider and now works for a ProTour team. At the time he was still racing. Nibali's name came up and I said it was only a matter of time before he gets caught. My friend was a bit taken aback, said he thought Nibali was clean. He knows Nibali but he is also lifelong friends with Vanotti, Nibali's primary training partner and teammate. He said Vanotti swears Nibali is clean. They had many deep discussions about it, spent hours/weeks/years together and he was convinced.

David Walsh? Is that you? I kid.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I noticed Nibbles has incredibly narrow shoulders.
Would anybody reckon narrow shoulders provides any physiological advantage or disadvantage going uphill?
As opposed to Nibali, guys like Wiggins, Contador and Armstrong have quite broad shoulders (at least compared to their hips).

I realize these guys race with their legs and lungs, not their shoulders. But you do need strong shoulders to pull, especially going uphill (right?).
Anyway, a bit like Froome, Nibbles doesn't strike me as a very natural athlete either.

Narrow shoulders = lighter and more aero.

 

[sniper]

I would love to be able to believe that, but something keeps stopping me. Oh yeah, it's the pictures on my TV screen.

took the words right out of my mouth there.
nibbles is riding on a "you gotta be kidding me" level.

 

[King Boonen]

I still have a few of my old race bikes from the 70's and 80's and it doesn't take much more than a trip around the block to see exactly how much better modern equipment is, lighter, more comfortable, more aerodynamic, more efficient, more gears. WE must have been real men to race on those things! Ah well, the older I get the faster I used to be.

I'm not much of a road guy, just got my first road bike in about 12 years, and I'm not that old, but I still find steel to be the most comfortable ride, both on the road and mountain biking. Everything else on my bikes is modern, but I'll be sticking with steel. I know it's not the lightest but I'll never be pushing for KOMs in the alps (although Reynolds 953 comes in pretty light if you can afford it) but in terms of comfort I just love the feel of a good quality steel frame

 

[Netserk]

Might as well tell this story here.

A while back I was talking to a Italian friend, long time professional rider and now works for a ProTour team. At the time he was still racing. Nibali's name came up and I said it was only a matter of time before he gets caught. My friend was a bit taken aback, said he thought Nibali was clean. He knows Nibali but he is also lifelong friends with Vanotti, Nibali's primary training partner and teammate. He said Vanotti swears Nibali is clean. They had many deep discussions about it, spent hours/weeks/years together and he was convinced.

I'd never expect Pinotti to call Nibali out, or anyone else for that matter.

 

[thehog]

I don't care what your data is, if you think Nibali is clean, you're an idiot mathematician...and a deluded one...

Excellent post for fostering discussion and debate. Good post Chewie.

 

[thehog]

I'd never expect Pinotti to call Nibali out, or anyone else for that matter.

What's considered clean to an Italy it's most likely tantamount to a criminal offence in other counties!

Ask any Italian about diving in football. Their response is its a creative part of the game to trick the referee into giving a penalty. Any other country sees it as a scourge on the game.

 

[the sceptic]

I'd never expect Pinotti to call Nibali out, or anyone else for that matter.

The indirect look them in the eye test. I wouldnt put too much faith in that.

 

[Hugh Januss]

The indirect look them in the eye test. I wouldnt put too much faith in that.

At least it's not Liggett administering the test.

 

[Benotti69]

Pinotti will never call out an Italian champion. It doesn't work like that in Italy.

Look at the hero worship a dead doper gets in Italy.

 

[The Hitch]

I wouldn't say a 37'20 is extraterrestrial. It's a really top notch performance but an alien performance would have been much better.

Nibali's not been put under any pressure at all in the mountains, so I'm not surprised he's got this much energy at this stage of the Tour.

Clean or not, I don't know, but it's at least in the realm of believable.

Realm of believability?

Why is it that all the performances that are in the realm of believability are way faster than what anyone ever really did clean. If nothing else it makes the hordes of gt dopers in the 2000's that were podiuming gts, regularly, even winning them out to be total schmucks. Like human evolution skipped an entire generation or something.

 

[I Love To Dope]

“Can you have faith in it? Yeah, and more,” team manager, Giuseppe Martinelli told VeloNews. “I’m sure, 100 percent. I don’t think anyone should put doubt on Vincenzo’s win.”

“Lance’s time seems very different to mine,” Nibali said. “I won the Vuelta a España, placed third in the Giro, second another time, won the Giro, placed second in the Vuelta…

“You can ask the questions, but you’re talking about the past, not Vincenzo Nibali,” Martinelli continued.

lmao

sorry u don't believe in miracles mate

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Why is it that all the performances that are in the realm of believability are way faster than what anyone ever really did clean.

That begs the question what is considered clean. /there arent any clean times on Hautacam, only idiot performances.

Two minutes down to Indurain 1994 puts you in a place with Zulle who wasnt on top EPO power at that time. For instance.

Indurain on a steel bike in 1994 vs a carbon bike of Nibali, that should be good for a minute or so wouldnt you think?

Statistics, either way, I wouldnt be surprised if the shark took some extra TUE's for it.

 

[sniper]

...
Statistics, either way, I wouldnt be surprised if the shark took some extra TUE's for it.

i wouldn't know what else they hired de maeseneer for.

 

[jackie]

Sorry for going OT but what's with the feet angle on the picture in the CN 18th stage results? The big one just under the first few paragraphs where Nibali is seen from the side. I'm only an amateur racer but even we know that the angle with the legs should be 90 degrees, maybe more if you're riding hard but definitely not below. You lose a lot of energy this way I think. I don't get it, is this common in the pro peloton?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

i wouldn't know what else they hired de maeseneer for.

I heard Joost was very good in bellydancing...

Your question should be: why isnt Nibali could yet while he was there on top in the 2009 Tour de Bore?

Bandwith doping.

Amazing.

 

[Mishrak]

I don't care what your data is, if you think Nibali is clean, you're an idiot mathematician...and a deluded one...

What part of his saying "the faster times could be explained by lighter bikes" and then supporting it with Dear Wiggo's math, is saying he thinks Nibali is clean?

Straw man much? Good grief.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What part of his saying "the faster times could be explained by lighter bikes" and then supporting it with Dear Wiggo's math, is saying he thinks Nibali is clean?

Straw man much? Good grief.

When I pull your chain, you can speak for him. Otherwise, whatever gig you have against me from a former user name, let it lie man...that way, the mods won't figure out you're a sockpuppet so quickly...

It must sting, right?

 

[deValtos]

I don't care what your data is, if you think Nibali is clean, you're an idiot mathematician...and a deluded one...

I made zero reference to Nibalis cleanliness or lack of cleanliness. It was a post about how much difference variations in bike weight make to climbing times.

You then went full ***.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Might as well tell this story here.

A while back I was talking to a Italian friend, long time professional rider and now works for a ProTour team. At the time he was still racing. Nibali's name came up and I said it was only a matter of time before he gets caught. My friend was a bit taken aback, said he thought Nibali was clean. He knows Nibali but he is also lifelong friends with Vanotti, Nibali's primary training partner and teammate. He said Vanotti swears Nibali is clean. They had many deep discussions about it, spent hours/weeks/years together and he was convinced.

I would have believed that right up until this Tour. When he got dropped like a sack of potatoes last year by Horner, I'd buy it. What I saw yesterday, I don't buy.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I made zero reference to Nibalis cleanliness or lack of cleanliness. It was a post about how much difference variations in bike weight make to climbing times.

You then went full ***.

Sorry if you were just explaining how Nibali was faster because of weight in a thread where people are defending or accusing Nibali of doping...because that's what's happening here junior...or can't you read? It's all context dude...and it's called the intertubes. If you can't be bothered to explain yourself fully, I can't be bothered to try to read sh!t into your posts that isn't there.

Full *** indeed...