Vingegaard vs Pogačar - The Duel

[SHAD0W93]

yeah, last year there was a few, where Jonas didn't want to pull Pogi home to loose the sprint and bonus secs. Thats fair "I am blocking your move, but I'd rather we just stay with the bunch"

Yesterday was perfect for Jonas, spend some energy to get Pogi to do a little extra; Remco presumably also had to work hard to get back. Jonas needs to beat Remco in the high mountains, not the hilly classics stages.

Last year Vingegaard was also responding to UAE attacks and riding deep into the flat stages though. It wasn’t like he was just chilling in the back. He looked just as tired as Pogacar, just got a second wind during the rest day.

 

[kn0s]

Rogla is in long-range defense mode now but will kill them both at the end.

Yes, already saving energy for next year.

 

[Peter von]

Last year Vingegaard was also responding to UAE attacks and riding deep into the flat stages though. It wasn’t like he was just chilling in the back. He looked just as tired as Pogacar, just got a second wind during the rest day.

oh absolutely.

he tried a rather suicidal attack early on as well where Pogi countered and took some time back on him,

 

[Peyroteo94]

2-2 in coming

 

[gregrowlerson]

2-2 in coming

Too early to call. I actually think Vingegaard's chances are slightly better now than pre race.

 

[tobydawq]

Too early to call. I actually think Vingegaard's chances are slightly better now than pre race.

I see a lot of people with this opinion.

I don't get it. I think it's contrived logic that should not be applicable on this year's race.

 

[iBanesto]

 

[Bolder]

One thing that I took away from yesterday is that Vingegaard is going to have to cooperate with Remco, Rodriguez, Roglic -- basically anyone whose last name starts with an R -- to compete with Pogacar. He just doesn't have the team to dictate the pace in the mountains, where I think he's still just as strong as Pog if it was 1 v 1.

In hindsight, he went deep for 20 seconds too long and blew up about 300 meters from the top of the Galibier, and had a wobble on the descent (plus being lighter didn't help), maybe because he was a little shaky from the effort. Had he waited for the rest they might have been able to cut Pog's gains a bit, especially on a pedaling descent.

Now, of course, the question is would they have raced passively already on the first mountain stage of the most important race of the year, the way Pog's putative competition did in the Giro?

This race is far from over but Vingegaard, even if he has the form, is going to have to outsmart UAE's whole team. Almeida in particular looks exceptionally strong.

 

[Peter von]

I see a lot of people with this opinion.

I don't get it. I think it's contrived logic that should not be applicable on this year's race.

stage 5 is yet to begin, it's too early to call even if Vingegaard retired yesterday.

But yes, the idea that Jonas recovery advantage will transfer to this year might not be true, though Jonas/Visma seems to at least hope that it is.

One thing that I took away from yesterday is that Vingegaard is going to have to cooperate with Remco, Rodriguez, Roglic -- basically anyone whose last name starts with an R -- to compete with Pogacar. He just doesn't have the team to dictate the pace in the mountains, where I think he's still just as strong as Pog if it was 1 v 1.

This race is far from over but Vingegaard, even if he has the form, is going to have to outsmart UAE's whole team. Almeida in particular looks exceptionally strong.

It is always interesting, I do think Jonas only needs his team to really show up for two days and then he has to finish the job himself on the last day.
It is still the Tour de France, it's going to be a hard race no matter what, UAE are also hungry and will(probably) try to control the break again to go for more stages, they also need to kill off Remco with a TT in the end.
Unless UAE uses Almeida or Ayuso for attacking, but that would also open the race.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

One thing that I took away from yesterday is that Vingegaard is going to have to cooperate with Remco, Rodriguez, Roglic -- basically anyone whose last name starts with an R -- to compete with Pogacar. He just doesn't have the team to dictate the pace in the mountains, where I think he's still just as strong as Pog if it was 1 v 1.

In hindsight, he went deep for 20 seconds too long and blew up about 300 meters from the top of the Galibier, and had a wobble on the descent (plus being lighter didn't help), maybe because he was a little shaky from the effort. Had he waited for the rest they might have been able to cut Pog's gains a bit, especially on a pedaling descent.

Now, of course, the question is would they have raced passively already on the first mountain stage of the most important race of the year, the way Pog's putative competition did in the Giro?

This race is far from over but Vingegaard, even if he has the form, is going to have to outsmart UAE's whole team. Almeida in particular looks exceptionally strong.

You know Remco‘s last name is not Remco, right?

 

[glassmoon]

Jonas is really on a impressive level after that crash but his team is basically non existent during the crucial moments... Pog got really lucky this year regarding the Giro-Tour double. Won Giro by minutes against 0 competition without much effort and there is nobody to challenge him and his team during the Tour because of crashes.

 

[tobydawq]

One thing that I took away from yesterday is that Vingegaard is going to have to cooperate with Remco, Rodriguez, Roglic -- basically anyone whose last name starts with an R -- to compete with Pogacar. He just doesn't have the team to dictate the pace in the mountains, where I think he's still just as strong as Pog if it was 1 v 1.

In hindsight, he went deep for 20 seconds too long and blew up about 300 meters from the top of the Galibier, and had a wobble on the descent (plus being lighter didn't help), maybe because he was a little shaky from the effort. Had he waited for the rest they might have been able to cut Pog's gains a bit, especially on a pedaling descent.

Now, of course, the question is would they have raced passively already on the first mountain stage of the most important race of the year, the way Pog's putative competition did in the Giro?

This race is far from over but Vingegaard, even if he has the form, is going to have to outsmart UAE's whole team. Almeida in particular looks exceptionally strong.

Remco's last name doesn't start with an R.

 

[Bolder]

Remco's last name doesn't start with an R.

damn! You're right! Evenepoel Remco it is, then. No posting before coffee anymore.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Jonas is really on a impressive level after that crash but his team is basically non existent during the crucial moments... Pog got really lucky this year regarding the Giro-Tour double. Won Giro by minutes against 0 competition without much effort and there is nobody to challenge him and his team during the Tour because of crashes.

and again visma's team is not there planned team. Plus Kelderman and Jorgenson already crashed and dont reach their level either.
Aside form that with UAE finally chosing Almeida and Ayuso on top of Yates makes them automatically the strongest team regardless. Even if visma still had Roglic they wouldn't be able to top that. Just UAE's slightly bigger budget and policy of buying the absolute top deciding that

 

[gregrowlerson]

I see a lot of people with this opinion.

I don't get it. I think it's contrived logic that should not be applicable on this year's race.

Given his injuries, I think Vingegaard would be happy to climb with Pogacar on stage 2, and to be only dropped by less than ten seconds on stage 4.

I don't think it's a given that Vingegaard will improve (not enough miles in the legs could mean that this is as good as it gets this year), but I think there's a decent enough chance that he could improve, and given the level that he has already showed, then that would be a dangerous proposition for Pogacar with the Giro in his legs, who is perhaps less likely to improve (at least all in terms of relative to the opposition).

I do see it as likely that Pogacar will take more time on Vingegaard on stage 7, but so long as he's within 2 minutes going into the Pyrenees then we have hope for a beautiful battle towards Nice.

Fingers crossed for no crashes.

 

[BullsFan22]

Given his injuries, I think Vingegaard would be happy to climb with Pogacar on stage 2, and to be only dropped by less than ten seconds on stage 4.

I don't think it's a given that Vingegaard will improve (not enough miles in the legs could mean that this is as good as it gets this year), but I think there's a decent enough chance that he could improve, and given the level that he has already showed, then that would be a dangerous proposition for Pogacar with the Giro in his legs, who is perhaps less likely to improve (at least all in terms of relative to the opposition).

I do see it as likely that Pogacar will take more time on Vingegaard on stage 7, but so long as he's within 2 minutes going into the Pyrenees then we have hope for a beautiful battle towards Nice.

Fingers crossed for no crashes.

I mean, with the windy conditions they faced, it would have impossible for someone to attack early and get a big gap by the top of the Galibier. The TT and the rough stage 11 profile could give Tadej another minute (maybe more, who knows) on Jonas.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

You know Remco‘s last name is not Remco, right?

damn! You're right! Evenepoel Remco it is, then. No posting before coffee anymore.

Wait, didn't Logic determine that his true name is Ramco (like Rambo you know)
As you technically don't have a first or last true Name it can play both roles. So it's all good.

 

[scribers]

I have no idea how to spell his last name. I never try to type it

 

[tobydawq]

I have no idea how to spell his last name. I never try to type it

How can you have no idea about it? It's written everywhere...

 

[scribers]

Evenepool

 

[scribers]

I also want to put an a in there somewhere

 

[tobydawq]

I also want to put an a in there somewhere

Don't put an a in.

It was almost right, though it's poel instead of pool. Still pronounced like pool. In English, that is, not in Dutch. That would be like pole. In English. Not Dutch. Nor Polish. You're welcome for that clarification.

 

[topcat]

Don't put an a in.

It was almost right, though it's poel instead of pool. Still pronounced like pool. In English, that is, not in Dutch. That would be like pole. In English. Not Dutch. Nor Polish. You're welcome for that clarification.

Remco: is the spelling correct and do you pronounce it like it's spelt (in English)?
And do you speak Flemish? Would that be rare for a Dane?
Btw: Tour is far from over

 

[tobydawq]

Remco: is the spelling correct and do you pronounce it like it's spelt (in English)?
And do you speak Flemish? Would that be rare for a Dane?
Btw: Tour is far from over

Yes, I speak Dutch. And yes, that's insanely rare for a Dane

And Remco is pronounced like in English, I'm almost sure.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You know Remco‘s last name is not Remco, right?

Wait, didn't Logic determine that his true name is Ramco (like Rambo you know)
As you technically don't have a first or last true Name it can play both roles. So it's all good.

Super Mario, from Super Mario Bros. fame, is actually called Mario Mario. Not joking.