Vino bought the 2010 LBL?

[Granville57]

The cooperation between Contador and Sánchez was quite open at the Tour. Shared yet separate goals. The contrast is interesting though.

Sánchez, Contador: allies on and off the road

What’s obvious to everyone is that Contador and Sánchez are clearly working together, something that both riders acknowledge.

“We spoke together during the stage that we have to drive the descent as fast as possible and that’s what we did,” Sánchez said at the line

“You always have to look for allies in the race, but they also have to be strong and you have to have common interests,” Contador said of Sánchez. “It’s good to have them during the race.”

“Samuel is trying to finish on the podium and Alberto is trying to win the Tour, so they both have interest to ride together,” said Euskaltel-Euskadi sport director Ivan González de Galdeano. “They are not riding for the same thing, so they can aid one another in these stages.”

Saxo Bank-Sungard boss Bjarne Riis said it’s normal that riders work together when common interests line up.

“When they find themselves in the front, of course they have to have an alliance in the last few kilometers,” Riis said. “I think that’s pretty natural. If it had been somebody else, I think it would have been the same.”

 

[Polish]

Interesting quote from Vino at the conclusion of the race:

"I showed that Vino is here, Vino c'est la classe. I am finished with this wrong and dark page of my history. I would like to show all of you that I can win great races without doping. I am trying to earn your trust. Today is the best proof and revenge for me.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/452081/vinokourov-s-liege-win-leaves-mixed-emotions.html

 

[Granville57]

The irony of the situation is that the most damning parts of the email exchange (if we accept them as legit) are Kolobnev's own worries about crossing a line and doing something wrong.

If he had kept it simple and not elaborated on his own concerns, there would be a much wider margin for them to skate around on this. As it stands, his own words may very well sink him.

(Sorry, too many metaphors. LOL)

 

[El Pistolero]

Can't wait to see what fan treatment Kolobnev will get at LBL 2014 if all this turns out to be true.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I think you guys are missing a major point here.

As there is huge money in Gambling this coming out opened a can of worms here that may not be closed.

there is huge money in gambling yes but not in gambling on cycling

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Maybe 100k is nothing if some "business" contacts of you have large sums on a Vino win.

What were the odds Ryo for a Vino win ? 2010 L-B-L

Match fixing or race fixing plus PEDS somebodies making a lot of cask and it is not Kolobnev

I don;'t know maybe 8/1

 

[Granville57]

Can't wait to see what fan treatment Kolobnev will get at LBL 2014 if all this turns out to be true.

I'd be willing to bet that if he ends up in a small break, no way any of the other riders are going to be caught on camera exchanging any words or gestures with him. They'll probably stay single file for the final 20K if they have to.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

lol btw @ people thinking this is dope. you don't believe a convicted cyclist transfers money from his own account to another riders account to acquire doping :L they are not that stupid

 

[will10]

Maybe 100k is nothing if some "business" contacts of you have large sums on a Vino win.

What were the odds Ryo for a Vino win ? 2010 L-B-L

Match fixing or race fixing plus PEDS somebodies making a lot of cask and it is not Kolobnev

Why ask Ryo when you can ask Google and get a link to a Joe Papp blog

http://joepapp.blogspot.com/2010/04/liege-bastogne-liege-odds.html

 

[DirtyWorks]

Seriously, you "people" need to get over yourselves,

And there it is. Again. The reason why Pro cycling will make boxing's corruption look saintly in comparison. Call it entertainment and kick the UCI out of the IOC once and for all.

as if you think pro cycling should aspire to be an idealized version of the Catholic Church.

People like to watch what appears to be a fair contest. They like to know that the federation strictly enforces the appearance of fairness. If viewers are confident there's no fixing going on, it tends to attract a larger audience.

Cycling does not have any such ethical standards, so it's media popularity will always be limited. The guy running the UCI rode in an aparthied(sp??) sponsored event for heaven's sake.

Given the rise of Russian influence at the UCI, there's no chance anything will be done to address another episode in a long history of race fixing.

I haven't read through the entire thread, but consider for a moment the story may be as much about dirtying the ASO's reputation as anything else.

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

Give that man a RadioShack jersey.

Do you think his feet are that big?

In other news, the EEC ruled today that Floyd is the only person who is not allowed to hack someone's email account, in what has been referred to as "The Landis Exemption" - look for the film of the same name starring Matt Damon, opening this Christmas.

 

[greatking88]

The irony of the situation is that the most damning parts of the email exchange (if we accept them as legit) are Kolobnev's own worries about crossing a line and doing something wrong.

If he had kept it simple and not elaborated on his own concerns, there would be a much wider margin for them to skate around on this. As it stands, his own words may very well sink him.

(Sorry, too many metaphors. LOL)

Yeah thats what I found funny, Kolobnev's worries about crossing the line and doing something wrong with regards handing the race to Vino.
Makes you think about the decision to go towards clinic related issues in Kolobnev's current situation.

 

[The Hitch]

Lol what about Sanchez and the entire Euskaltel riding for Conti

You do come up with moronic statements sometimes. EE can barely ride for their own team leader yet alone another one.

And Sanchez never rode for Contador.

They were together on 2 stages, totaling a grand total of maybe 4-5 minutes out of the 80+hour race.

On both Pyraneen stages Sanchez dropped Contador.

The first time they were together Evan. Your beloved Andy would have been there if he didnt get dropped.

How dare Sanchez hang on to a decisive attack unless hes working for Contador

The 2nd time Contador and Sanchez outdescended the field.

On both occasions Contador did 90% of the work so if anything, he would have been working for Sanchez.

I guess you though, would have had Sanchez stop on the road in order to prove that he isnt working for Contador.

A third time they came together, Sanchez brought a rival, and then dropped Contador arguably costing them the stage. Yep whole EE working for Contador

Watch races before you comment on them.

I guess since Basso and Cunego were always in the same group, the whole of Lampre was working for Basso
The logic is the same. They are both Italian, hence they must be working for eachother. Evil Southern European cheats trying to cost noble North Europeans and Anglophones, races.

 

[aarnold517]

The most interesting part of the email to me is the part:

"According to the magazine, Kolobnev admits to having let him win, “not so much because of our agreement, but mostly because of my feelings towards you and towards your situation."

Not to get to clinic-y, but given what we know about kolobnev, that makes it sound like he let vino win because he found it unfair that vino was suspended for two years while other riders that were doing the same thing were allowed to ride the entire time

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

more that vino was suspended and at late age decided to return and did at great level again and respected that tremendously

 

[roundabout]

It's easy to do great when you have the money to buy wins

 

[joe_papp]

good luck!

The most interesting part of the email to me is the part:

"According to the magazine, Kolobnev admits to having let him win, “not so much because of our agreement, but mostly because of my feelings towards you and towards your situation."

Not to get to clinic-y, but given what we know about kolobnev, that makes it sound like he let vino win because he found it unfair that vino was suspended for two years while other riders that were doing the same thing were allowed to ride the entire time

Another example of why it's not realistic to expect riders not to make alliances and then seek to repay those alliances either in kind or w/ something else.

One could argue that the motives that Kolobnev seems to express, namely that he felt it ok to let Vino win and deny a Belgian in no small part because of his admiration for Vino and feeling that he had been treated unfairly or was being treated unfairly, don't equate to the nefarious "collusion" (via Velonation) that's proscribed by the regs.

UCI rule 1.2.081 states that: “Riders shall sportingly defend their own chances. Any collusion or behaviour likely to falsify or go against the interests of the competition shall be forbidden.”

Good luck making the argument at CAS that the interests of the competition were harmed by Vino winning as opposed to Kolobnev - or Valverde, for that matter. And what does it mean to "sportingly" defend your own chances? Who's to even say that Kolobnev could've beaten Vino? It's entirely possible that he had no confidence in his ability to drop Vino or outsprint him, but he maintained the fiction of being stronger - or strong enough - to induce Vino to make him a loan of $. And then he maintains that fiction after-the-fact in order not to make Vino feel foolish for loaning money to someone who was, in fact, weaker than he. For Vino does not loan money to weak men - he devours them!

"I will grab your nuts and crush them in the palm of my hand like a pair of soft, squishy grapes! And then I will feed them to wife's goat!"

Or he has a Prince do it for him...b/c Vino gives orders to royalty, princes and UCI presidents included!

Why ask Ryo when you can ask Google and get a link to a Joe Papp blog

http://joepapp.blogspot.com/2010/04/liege-bastogne-liege-odds.html

No problemo. I wish I'd noted the max bet on that race. I think it was probably 1,000 pounds sterling. Not exactly super-attractive to a crime syndicate. Regardless, I can say that it is my semi-professional opinion - based on my limited experience and understanding - that crime syndicates are not involved in trying to fix cycling races like they are cricket matches.

Firstly, the money isn't there and secondly, races themselves (especially classics) have way too many variables to allow such interference. All it would take would be an errant moto, a stray dog, a careless fan, a slippery corner, a cow turd, a Basque-on-the-cobbles, etc. to knock down your designated winner and put him totally out of the race. If there is some medium that allows for betting on the outcome of an event once the leaders are into the final km's, ok, sure you could call the Katusha team car, tell the DS to tell the rider that if he doesn't miss a shift w/ 300m to go and crosses the line first then his wife will be sent to Chechnya to wash the feet of some terrorist overlord, but it's not like SkyBet is accepting $$ from the punters when the break passes under the red kite.

It's easy to do great when you have the money to buy wins

Wow. Is it envy or jealousy that powers such a comment? As if Vino - or any rider w/ Vino's palmares - could amass it simply through corruption or doping. Cheating is unfortunate and reprehensible - but to imply that success is only attainable by those with money, regardless of their talent, is another intellectually-dishonest argument. All the money in the world wouldn't buy you L-B-L if you weren't talented and trained enough to be able to lead the race in the first place.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Cheating is unfortunate and reprehensible

Strange that you should say that, given the rest of your argument in this thread.

Tactical alliances are an inherent part of the sport. Cash payments to a rival to throw his own chance have long been a part of the sport but are a rather different affair. There is quite literally no other sport in the world where a fan would try to justify the practice.

(I have read neither the article that sparked this thread nor the leaked emails, so I'm commenting on the general issue rather than the specifics of these allegations).

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't believe it. That he bought it.
Don't know much about the guy, obviously, but he always stroke me as someone with a certain amount of pride. It might just be me but I'd say that if you harbour enough pride you wouldn't do something like that.
After all; wouldn't "buying the victory" imply that you didn't have the skills to win on your own?

Just my two cents. I'll leave you guys to it...

 

[jens_attacks]

Not to get to clinic-y, but given what we know about kolobnev, that makes it sound like he let vino win because he found it unfair that vino was suspended for two years while other riders that were doing the same thing were allowed to ride the entire time

hopefully vino will do the same next year and he will let kolobnev take the win in front of him.in front of a belgian imagine that=))))))))))))))))))))))awesome

any guy from switzerland here?how big is this illustre magazine?do they know that they can be forced to pay millions for this?that's absolutely no proof that can be taken to the court(only if one of the two choose to tell,not gonna happen).a bank account transfer is not a proof.my guess is that illustre magazine is doomed,they messed up with the wrong guy for little profit(how much a pro cycling story sells...little)
i repeat,illustre is gonna pay with lots,lots of money this affaire,privacy is defended here in europe we don't live in freaking north korea.wipe them out vino

 

[El Pistolero]

hopefully vino will do the same next year and he will let kolobnev take the win in front of him.in front of a belgian imagine that=))))))))))))))))))))))awesome

any guy from switzerland here?how big is this illustre magazine?do they know that they can be forced to pay millions for this?that's absolutely no proof that can be taken to the court(only if one of the two choose to tell,not gonna happen).a bank account transfer is not a proof.my guess is that illustre magazine is doomed,they messed up with the wrong guy for little profit(how much a pro cycling story sells...little)
i repeat,illustre is gonna pay with lots,lots of money this affaire,privacy is defended here in europe we don't live in freaking north korea.wipe them out vino

Kolobnev won't be racing for 2 years to come lol.

 

[joe_papp]

Been there, done that - speaking from experience.

Strange that you should say that, given the rest of your argument in this thread.

Tactical alliances are an inherent part of the sport. Cash payments to a rival to throw his own chance have long been a part of the sport but are a rather different affair. There is quite literally no other sport in the world where a fan would try to justify the practice.

(I have read neither the article that sparked this thread nor the leaked emails, so I'm commenting on the general issue rather than the specifics of these allegations).

1. No one here knows what Kolobnev's exact physical state was at the time he solicited or accepted a loan from Vino. To suggest that he was the rightful winner of L-B-L and had the option of selling a race that would otherwise, by predetermination, been his, is fantasy.

2. I am justifying the act of loaning (sometimes interest free, often without the expectation of being repaid) money to other riders to secure their cooperation during a race - or accepting money from another team or rider to support their immediate goal - because it isn't the type of collusion that's proscribed (or else it would've been prosecuted at least once already in the modern era), and it's a fundamental component of the tactical toolbox every good pro rider and DS should be aware of. And I've done it myself, several times - both ways.

If the UCI can accept as w/in the scope of the rules the result of the 1996 Paris-Roubaix, where the DS choreographed the finish per the sponsor's orders (a result that Colnago is happy to refer to openly and proudly as part of their marketing literature: "All three are aboard Colnago C40s as team sponsor Georgio Squinzi instructs that Museeuw should win." http://www.colnago.com/mapei-sweeps-roubaix-podium/), then I can't see how they could argue that Vino's loaning money to Kolobnev to ensure his cooperation in an escape to the finish of LBL'10 resulted in any less-authentic a conclusion to the competition.

...After all; wouldn't "buying the victory" imply that you didn't have the skills to win on your own?

Not only that, but it would imply that L-B-L was Kolobnev's race to win/sell by predetermination and that the only way Vino could place first was to pay a fee to the Russian. Even if Vino DID pay Kolobnev for his help, it may very well be that the Russian had no hope of beating Vino and would've instantly cramped and seized-up if he'd tried to follow the Kazakh's attack, but he maintains the fiction of having been super-strong in order not to make Vino out to be duped.

Kolobnev should just come out and say that he was cooked and didn't beat Vino because he couldn't. Any reports of quotes attributed to him saying otherwise are just prideful bluster and expressions of his 'manliness' and strength, to counter the humiliation of being torn to shreds by the Golden Eagle! lol

After all, any dude w/ a retinue that includes characters like these isn't someone you should feel bad to have lost to:

 

[jens_attacks]

Kolobnev won't be racing for 2 years to come lol.

don't be so sure.anyway there is also 2014,vino will still be around you know

 

[roundabout]

Wait, and I am accused of intellectual dishonesty here?

 

[c&cfan]

Wait, and I am accused of intellectual dishonesty here?

yes.

because:

a) you are jealous.
b) you are ignorant and you don't know nothing about cycling or any other professional sport.

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