Vino bought the 2010 LBL?

[Ryo Hazuki]

as always the winner pays the loser for simply cooperating with him in break. this is common knowledge amongst (former) cyclists and ducrot has so often said this on dutch tv. this happens every race. it would just be better if vino simply said that's why he paid him that amount. also you don't really believe kolobnev sells a win for 100.000 dollars. he makes a million a year at katyusha at least.

again because you guys appearantly can't read. this is what happened and it happens almost every race. ask any cyclist

 

[Dr. Maserati]

again because you guys appearantly can't read. this is what happened and it happens almost every race. ask any cyclist

Well if its so common place and everyone knows about it - why does Vino bother to deny it?

 

[hrotha]

again because you guys appearantly can't read. this is what happened and it happens almost every race. ask any cyclist

Don't be so full of yourself. Even if the custom is for the winner to pay the loser after the fact, that doesn't mean in this particular instance Kolobnev wasn't bought off so that he didn't even try to win. But, unlike you, I'm not saying that's what happened without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[insideout leadout]

Ullrich must be a filthy rich sob....just sayin.

 

[webvan]

Well if its so common place and everyone knows about it - why does Vino bother to deny it?

Same reason everyone denies "clinic material": omerta

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well if its so common place and everyone knows about it - why does Vino bother to deny it?

because if he said that who would believe it? that;s why I said it was stupid of vino to make excuse of borrowing money

 

[El Pistolero]

because if he said that who would believe it? that;s why I said it was stupid of vino to make excuse of borrowing money

Read the emails, it's clearly stating that Kolobnev gave away the victory. He even said he could have won him self because he felt very strong that day and that if it was someone else than Vino he'd have gone for the win.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

because if he said that who would believe it? that;s why I said it was stupid of vino to make excuse of borrowing money

Who would believe it? Well according to yourself it is common knowledge:

Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki
as always the winner pays the loser for simply cooperating with him in break. this is common knowledge amongst (former) cyclists and ducrot has so often said this on dutch tv. this happens every race. it would just be better if vino simply said that's why he paid him that amount. also you don't really believe kolobnev sells a win for 100.000 dollars. he makes a million a year at katyusha at least.

Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki
again because you guys appearantly can't read. this is what happened and it happens almost every race. ask any cyclist

 

[ramjambunath]

again because you guys appearantly can't read. this is what happened and it happens almost every race. ask any cyclist

Just because it happens regularly, doesn't make it right. I've read many justifiable comments here that doping is not taken seriously in other sports, it seems that race fixing and corruption isn't taken seriously in cycling unlike other sports. I'd rather see a race between riders rather than agreements off the road, it's grudgingly acceptable (with very gritted teeth) in a stage race but a monument- unacceptable on any level. Again, this hasn't yet been proven and I can't say it's true but your argument accepts that Vino's been gifted the race and that's what I'm countering.

 

[greatking88]

Certainly, there has to be solid proof though. I can't see this clip at work, but I'm sure you can't hear him talk and only see his gestures?

Well I know Deignan and he told me quite openly...He even mentioned it in a newspaper article as well if i remember!

 

[El Pistolero]

Just because it happens regularly, doesn't make it right. I've read many justifiable comments here that doping is not taken seriously in other sports, it seems that race fixing and corruption isn't taken seriously in cycling unlike other sports. I'd rather see a race between riders rather than agreements off the road, it's grudgingly acceptable (with very gritted teeth) in a stage race but a monument- unacceptable on any level. Again, this hasn't yet been proven and I can't say it's true but your argument accepts that Vino's been gifted the race and that's what I'm countering.

I agree with this. I can (barely) accept if someone "buys" or "sells" a stage in a stage race or even Grand Tour, but selling a Monument or GT win? Unacceptable. If it turns out to be true they should be punished.

 

[Franklin]

Apologies if this is posted elsewhere. Swiss mag L'Illustre is accusing Vino of paying Kolobnev 100,000 euro to let him win the 2010 LBL.

http://www.bicycle.net/2011/magazine-lillustre-accuses-vinokourov-of-buying-2010-liege-bastogne

LMAO!

1. It's standard procedure when away with two that the winner pays #2... it ensures both ride to the finish. The winner (which one is still to be decided) pays the agreed upon amount.
2. Facial expressions are not reliable, but if you look at the grimaces Alex made when trying to hold Vino's wheel versus the cool and undisturbed face of Vino during the last 20 kilometres I think Alex deserves an Oscar.

What a non-event.

 

[pastronef]

Kolobnev better ask for a few $$$ more to Vino

he needs a bodyguard to protect himself from Tchmil

 

[ramjambunath]

LMAO!

1. It's standard procedure when away with two that the winner pays #2... it ensures both ride to the finish. The winner (which one is still to be decided) pays the agreed upon amount.
2. Facial expressions are not reliable, but if you look at the grimaces Alex made when trying to hold Vino's wheel versus the cool and undisturbed face of Vino during the last 20 kilometres I think Alex deserves an Oscar.

What a non-event.

A reported sum of $100k isn't suspicious at all
I don't think anyone here has said he's definitely guilty and there's no confirmation but the truth may never be revealed without a proper investigation and Vinokourov and Kolobnev will have to ride for the rest of their careers with an albatross around their necks without one. I've never heard of a man paying five times what he wins as a consolation for second spot.

I agree with this. I can (barely) accept if someone "buys" or "sells" a stage in a stage race or even Grand Tour, but selling a Monument or GT win? Unacceptable. If it turns out to be true they should be punished.

There was a scandal last year in cricket and such should be the punishments for match/spot/race fixing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/nov/03/****stan-spot-fixing-scandal-verdict swear filter will come in the way, it's Pakistan but first four letters will be starred.
(a no ball has as much significance as bonus sprint seconds in the larger scheme of things)
If not this, then at least a suspension which is longer than the doping ones. At least that's cheating to win (I say this with very gritted teeth again) not corruption/cheating to lose, which is against the ethos of every facet of society. The only difference between the two cases is the agent/broker, the act of hurting the team or yourself for money is the same.

 

[just some guy]

A reported sum of $100k isn't suspicious at all
I don't think anyone here has said he's definitely guilty and there's no confirmation but the truth may never be revealed without a proper investigation and Vinokourov and Kolobnev will have to ride for the rest of their careers with an albatross around their necks without one. I've never heard of a man paying five times what he wins as a consolation for second spot.



There was a scandal last year in cricket and such should be the punishments for match/spot/race fixing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/nov/03/****stan-spot-fixing-scandal-verdict swear filter will come in the way, it's Pakistan but first four letters will be starred.
(a no ball has as much significance as bonus sprint seconds in the larger scheme of things)
If not this, then at least a suspension which is longer than the doping ones. At least that's cheating to win (I say this with very gritted teeth again) not corruption/cheating to lose, which is against the ethos of every facet of society. The only difference between the two cases is the agent/broker, the act of hurting the team or yourself for money is the same.

Maybe 100k is nothing if some "business" contacts of you have large sums on a Vino win.

What were the odds Ryo for a Vino win ? 2010 L-B-L

Match fixing or race fixing plus PEDS somebodies making a lot of cask and it is not Kolobnev

 

[Kwibus]

From Deignans website.


It would have been earlier than in the video link shown, but it still happened.

Problem is that it's still not solid proof
I'm sure he is speaking the truth though.

 

[VeloCity]

LMAO!

1. It's standard procedure when away with two that the winner pays #2... it ensures both ride to the finish. The winner (which one is still to be decided) pays the agreed upon amount.

Except that's not what's being alleged here.

 

[Escarabajo]

Is it really a mere 20 thousand to win a major classic? God, I think in golf you can play a mediocre tournament and come in about 50th place and win double that...shame really...

In cycling the money is in the contracts with the teams and advertisement. Not the prizes. The prizes always have been lousy.

 

[joe_papp]

Well if its so common place and everyone knows about it - why does Vino bother to deny it?

B/c it's technically against the rules (collusion) and to admit to it would be to open himself to being DQ'd, fined and probably banned again (I'd have to check the UCI rule book).

Yes, it happens ALL THE TIME and it's not something that fundamentally affects the entertainment value of the sport. It is just the gutter press trying to smear a great champion...lol

 

[jens_attacks]

vino found the hacker

lol

makes the off season bearable,vino will win the process anyway.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

B/c it's technically against the rules (collusion) and to admit to it would be to open himself to being DQ'd, fined and probably banned again (I'd have to check the UCI rule book).

Yes, it happens ALL THE TIME and it's not something that fundamentally affects the entertainment value of the sport. It is just the gutter press trying to smear a great champion...lol

Nothing technical about it - it is against the rules.

While I am perfectly aware that it goes on, it does not mean it should be an acceptable practicably.

 

[Poursuivant]

I actually laughed when I read Vino's excuse. Will he lend me some money? What a lovely feller. I also laughed at some of the responses on here, claiming he might be telling the truth.

Throw the book at him now, finish his career.

 

[skidmark]

Would be the first time that fourth place actually means you win the race though

Didn't that happen in the 1904 Tour de France?

 

[joe_papp]

get off the high horse

I agree with this. I can (barely) accept if someone "buys" or "sells" a stage in a stage race or even Grand Tour, but selling a Monument or GT win? Unacceptable. If it turns out to be true they should be punished.

Are you serious? If so, be careful that you don't get a nose bleed from altitude up there on your high horse.

I hope you'll be leading the charge to indict dozens of "champion" cyclists, teams and directors who've exchanged cash or favors to support the interests of another in a tactical situation. I'm sure any Scottish readers here would be pleased if you made the first target of your righteous fury the Spanish and Colombians who helped each other to defeat Robert Millar in the 1985 Vuelta (http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/5/11/2162334/VueltaAEspana1985).

Nothing technical about it - it is against the rules.

While I am perfectly aware that it goes on, it does not mean it should be an acceptable practicably.

It IS an "acceptable practicably."

Seriously, you "people" need to get over yourselves, as if you think pro cycling should aspire to be an idealized version of the Catholic Church. How many of you would be so upset if it was an athlete other than Vino I don't know, but I hope that you'll be aiding Jeff Novitzky as he researches the entire history of the f^cking sport to punish every instance where money or favors changed hands in a race to some end.

You're ridiculous.

 

[El Pistolero]

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