Vinokourov and Kolobnev facing prison over 2010 Liege

[Leinster]

At least Terpstra stopped working near the end after it turned out that he wasn't stronger than Kristoff on the cobbled climbs. He got a podium in the RVV and forced the other guy to do the work near the end. Dillier on the other hand didn't stop taking turns, not even durning the final 5km and was actually leading Sagan in the Velodrome. You can ride for a podium, but at one point you usually start to let the other guy to the work so the you have at least a small chance of beating him.

Dilier, like Terpstra vs Kristoff in Flanders, knew that if they got caught, he would go from 2nd (a dream result for him 6 hours before) to 3rd, or 8th, or worse, in a hurry.

Also, it's not unprecedented to choose to start a sprint from the front. Witness Sagan in San Remo this year. Now, obviously it's not often a good idea, but there have been plenty of instances where it's worked out (it usually doesn't), and on a velodrome is one of those situations where you can use the bank to help you (Dilier didn't do a good job of this).

 

[yaco]

That's a different situation. Roglic and Pogacar worked together for a common goal in that stage, so it's normal that Roglic doesn't bother about the stage win. In the case of Vinokourov there's proof of actual bribery to win a race.

Do you think this is the first time riders have come to a financial arrangement or will do so in the future - It's a waste of police resources.

 

[yaco]

In a stagerace, there are many objectives. For Roglic the main objective is to win the stagerace. For Pogacar that is (or was at that point) to win a stage. It's perfectly possible that they can work together with a mutual understanding of each others objectives, neither of which interfered with the other.
In a classic, or a one day race, there is only one objective. To win (or have a teammate win) the race at the end of the day.

My subtle argument missed is this kind of arrangement is common in cycling and sometimes it involves a financial inducement - Why the police would waste resources on investigating a sporting event is hard to fathom.

 

[MatParker117]

My subtle argument missed is this kind of arrangement is common in cycling and sometimes it involves a financial inducement - Why the police would waste resources on investigating a sporting event is hard to fathom.

Corruption is Corruption no matter the situation. This is Corruption, Kolobnev accepted a bribe to throw a race it's that simple.

 

[el chava]

Do you think this is the first time riders have come to a financial arrangement or will do so in the future - It's a waste of police resources.

Please spare a though for us imbeciles who bet a decent amount of money then on the perpetual WC runner-up Kolobnev.

 

[Bolder]

I don’t think you’ll find many cycling fans anywhere who’ll have much sympathy for Vino. I would not only echo your sentiments, but at the same time ask, why is this the thing that might finally bring him down, and how has it taken so long, and how come he still has a team in the World Tour?

^^Says it all. IMO Vino was a great rider who had trouble coloring inside the lines. It's too bad.

 

[yaco]

Corruption is Corruption no matter the situation. This is Corruption, Kolobnev accepted a bribe to throw a race it's that simple.

Read the post's from 42166 - This has hapened many times in the past and nothing has been done - It's selective and not worthy of the law being involved.

 

[shalgo]

I wonder if anything will ever be done about the 2012 Olympic Road Race.

The way Uran exaggeratedly looked over his left shoulder for way longer than was necessary while Vinokourov attacked to the right, then kept looking straight ahead, apparently still unaware that Vinokourov had attacked until it was too late, was the worst acting since Sofia Coppola in Godfather 3.

I like Uran, but that finish felt wrong at the time and felt even more wrong once the stories about Vino and Kolobnev starting coming out.

 

[This Charming Man]

Absurd. What Vino did is common in cycling and other sports. I have always acknowledged that Mr. Vinokurov is unethical, however.....if you go after him for this infraction, fairly, all other shady results must be investigated.....

 

[cantpedal]

Corruption is Corruption no matter the situation. This is Corruption, Kolobnev accepted a bribe to throw a race it's that simple.

This is especially true wit sports gambling on the sport. Also think of those that had (i'm guessing was a long shot) bet on Kolobnev.

 

[Lequack]

Absurd. What Vino did is common in cycling and other sports. I have always acknowledged that Mr. Vinokurov is unethical, however.....if you go after him for this infraction, fairly, all other shady results must be investigated.....

I think it's also very normal in soccer, all the smaller matches are rigged.

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Vino deserves worse and I think London, the host of one of the events, should sue for sucking all the drama out of their race and making it a laughing stock as well as tarnishing the reputation of every other summer olympic game that year.

That said, all the fun I lost watching those fixed races is made up for by the entertainment factor of the vino defenders in this thread.

 

[jmdirt]

RE: many points:
-I doubt either of them actually serve time.
-I think that Astana could be fine without him (short and long term).
-People liked him as a rider because he attacked more than anyone else. We would have to change threads to discuss why.
-I personally didn't care about it when it happened, nor do I care about it now (or any other race deals). Alex sold his chance because he felt that he couldn't win (the biggest race of his life). Smart business: I don't have the legs, at least I can make a few bucks/francs/rubles.

 

[Unchained]

Absurd. What Vino did is common in cycling and other sports. I have always acknowledged that Mr. Vinokurov is unethical, however.....if you go after him for this infraction, fairly, all other shady results must be investigated.....

as we see even today..the prize money or small position change in GC maybe trivial. Bennett is a great example. He is way way way down finishing outside any GC. payout..so his stage results are all he will get. But overall everyone keeps talking about some good riders being unsigned.
So as almost a professional courtesy if a small group of riders are contesting today's sprint, nobody would be surprised if it was said before or after that the race was a giveaway for the greater good.
we had a world famous situation here in the US were a super dirt bag rider..RG..accused LA of some inter- peloton collusion to get a bonus check.
so Charming's conclusion that this is a silly pursuit is correct.
The riders union should be disbanded completely.
None of this is the way things should work. A conviction of Vino, sure may harm him but what it really does is soil w warm steaming fresh stench the current peloton that has made progress in cleaning up in numerous ways. Old cycling infractions are paid also by current riders who don't even know who Vino is..
Why the riders union is not front and center trying to work for some kind of quiet settlement is beyond me. But then again if Vino was going to do what is best for bike racing he would be raising goats..not driving a team car.
We just had it here in the US..we have @6 races..Tour of Utah had a problem with one of our famous offenders participation..thank God the name change happened and the marijuana salesman's name was dropped. In the US these ex offenders are sponsoring junior development teams, underwriting program sponsorship,selling products like RoadID, and they are the doing commentary for TV and podcasts of the very few cycling events seen in the US.
We have to do better,except more,for young racers and the sport itself.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

I think it's also very normal in soccer, all the smaller matches are rigged.

Now that one is going to take some justification, although probably in another thread to avoid going too far off topic here.

All of the matches at what level, with what evidence?

 

[VO2 Max]

Absurd. What Vino did is common in cycling and other sports. I have always acknowledged that Mr. Vinokurov is unethical, however.....if you go after him for this infraction, fairly, all other shady results must be investigated.....

The problem is that cycling has so many grey areas - it's certainly not unknown for a winner to share the cash with his breakaway partners, as a gentleman's agreement recognising that only one can win but that he can't do it without the others - that can still be a perfectly fair race as everyone is trying to win. But once you have winners wiring money or handing brown envelopes to the people he beat in a race then there's a big opportunity for "less gentlemanly things" to happen.

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah, if people would stop saying that fixing a monument is perfectly fine, that would be great.

There's not much point for us watching, otherwise.

 

[jmdirt]

Yeah, if people would stop saying that fixing a monument is perfectly fine, that would be great.

There's not much point for us watching, otherwise.

I don't know if anyone thinks its perfectly fine, but it happens (less now that riders make better money I think).

 

[geisterhome]

I don’t think you’ll find many cycling fans anywhere who’ll have much sympathy for Vino. I would not only echo your sentiments, but at the same time ask, why is this the thing that might finally bring him down, and how has it taken so long, and how come he still has a team in the World Tour?

Really? The guy is nothing short of a cycling legend, with all that (usually) comes with it.

 

[rick james]

That is speculation, there's no real evidence, even if it looks a bit suspicious.
I also think that the way Dillier rode the final 5km of Paris-Roubaix with Sagan last year is pretty suspicious, he pretty much did the opposite of what one would do to have even a small chance in that sprint.

Piss off, there was nothing suspicious about that Paris -Roubaix

 

[Vino's Mum]

"Here is a copy of all my bank information and clear it from your mail box, or my balls may be cut off," Kolobnev reportedly said in an email.

Vinokourov replied, saying: "You have done everything properly, do not worry. As you say, the Earth is round and God sees everything ... So, again thank you. You, this year you will win the championship finally, I believe. Do not worry about the agreement, I will do it."

Case dismissed, lol.

 

[42x16ss]

The problem is that cycling has so many grey areas - it's certainly not unknown for a winner to share the cash with his breakaway partners, as a gentleman's agreement recognising that only one can win but that he can't do it without the others - that can still be a perfectly fair race as everyone is trying to win. But once you have winners wiring money or handing brown envelopes to the people he beat in a race then there's a big opportunity for "less gentlemanly things" to happen.

Indeed. I have seen with my own eyes a letter from a very well known former UK pro turned commentator to a former lower division pro I know thanking him for not riding against him in a criterium/kermesse series in the UK, saying that his share of the primes and prize money was included. Forum member Esafosfina probably would have raced that series as well.

 

[yaco]

Watch old cycling documentaries and it's clearly stated that teams came to arrangements in races including grand tours.

 

[tobydawq]

Watch old cycling documentaries and it's clearly stated that teams came to arrangements in races including grand tours.

So what?

In the 1904 Tour, many riders took the train but just because that happened back in the day doesn't mean it should be accepted today.

 

[Blanco]

Vino deserves worse and I think London, the host of one of the events, should sue for sucking all the drama out of their race and making it a laughing stock as well as tarnishing the reputation of every other summer olympic game that year.

That said, all the fun I lost watching those fixed races is made up for by the entertainment factor of the vino defenders in this thread.

Well if Uran really sold that Olympics he deserves even worse! And how much could cost an Olympic gold? Imagine the money he could get from the next contract as an Olympic champion, not to mention sport aspect and recognition. Even 1 million $ would be a bad deal here.