Volta a Portugal 2016 (2.1, 27.07./07.08.)

[Billie]

It's a shame the Volta nowadays can no longer be combined with the Olympics

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re: Re:

lol that was crazy. Vinhas a lot better than expected right. His chance of holding til the end should be pretty good now?

Depends how brutal the Torre stage is raced. Remember Sousa in 2008.

I don't know how serious Vinhas rode in the last itt's of the race, but he lost tons of time to Veloso.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

So predictable. I never knew Veloso was that good before he came to Portugal.

He has won Volta Ciclista Catalunya in 2008 :Neutral: with all respect to Volata Portugal, Catalunya is (and was) bigger race. I like this race but this thread seems to be pretty biased.

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

So predictable. I never knew Veloso was that good before he came to Portugal.

He has won Volta Ciclista Catalunya in 2008 :Neutral: with all respect to Volata Portugal, Catalunya is (and was) bigger race. I like this race but this thread seems to be pretty biased.

I only started following cycling in 2009, so the only Veloso I know was a domestique in Xacobeo who won a break stage in the Vuelta.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

So predictable. I never knew Veloso was that good before he came to Portugal.

He has won Volta Ciclista Catalunya in 2008 :Neutral: with all respect to Volata Portugal, Catalunya is (and was) bigger race. I like this race but this thread seems to be pretty biased.

I'd rate his stage win at the Vuelta too, on the infamous time up Xorret del Catí when Rein Taaramäe redefined the bonk.

The guy's always been a pretty good rider, but the fact is that he was a decent rider who was bouncing around Spanish ProConti teams and is now in his mid-30s, so he didn't have enough upside to be wanted at the top level and went to race in Portugal as a result, and so his whole year is based around being in peak form for two weeks in August.

The other thing is that, while insular, there's something romantic and historic about the Volta. It's an immensely historic race, a huge tradition in August, racing is traditionally brutally fast and aggressive (for a variety of reasons, not all of which can be discussed in this part of the board of course) and it's got a pretty big cult following because of that. Also, the fact that it's one of the very few (if not the only actually UCI-rated) race to follow the old system that we saw from many lower tier and open pro-am races in the pre-World Tour days, lasting 10-12 stages and thus proving a better game of recovery and offering more variety than many other non-GT stage races.

 

[jens_attacks]

what about veloso's father? anyone got the chills?

veloso as expected, the strongest. thank god rui vinhas got in that breakaway otherwise the race would have been over today. we might get some drama in w52 next 2 stages

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that, while insular, there's something romantic...about the Volta.

I've noticed this, most of "romanticizers" seem Portuguese. I can't quite tell what is bias and what romanticizing, but there is both.

Bias is certainly towards level of racing - all this 800w attacks, most brutal sprints, send Sky train there, or send W52 to Vuelta... I mean... The level is not that high, right?

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that, while insular, there's something romantic...about the Volta.

I've noticed this, most of "romanticizers" seem Portuguese. I can't quite tell what is bias and what romanticizing, but there is both.

Bias is certainly towards level of racing - all this 800w attacks, most brutal sprints, send Sky train there, or send W52 to Vuelta... I mean... The level is not that high, right?

It's high.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/08/cataclysmic-performance-on-senhora-da.html

Probably not clean but still high.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Re: Re:

I like this race but this thread seems to be pretty biased.

This, although I don't like this race without Candido Barbosa.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that, while insular, there's something romantic...about the Volta.

I've noticed this, most of "romanticizers" seem Portuguese. I can't quite tell what is bias and what romanticizing, but there is both.

Bias is certainly towards level of racing - all this 800w attacks, most brutal sprints, send Sky train there, or send W52 to Vuelta... I mean... The level is not that high, right?

It's high.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/08/cataclysmic-performance-on-senhora-da.html

Probably not clean but still high.

Still I'm hesitating... In 2013 22 years old Hirt with no previous racing experience there lost 57 seconds on Pardilla.

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that, while insular, there's something romantic...about the Volta.

I've noticed this, most of "romanticizers" seem Portuguese. I can't quite tell what is bias and what romanticizing, but there is both.

Bias is certainly towards level of racing - all this 800w attacks, most brutal sprints, send Sky train there, or send W52 to Vuelta... I mean... The level is not that high, right?

It's high.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/08/cataclysmic-performance-on-senhora-da.html

Probably not clean but still high.

Still I'm hesitating... In 2013 22 years old Hirt with no previous racing experience there lost 57 seconds on Pardilla.

The field is typically very shallow, only the portuguese teams really care for the race.

On twitter 6.6W/kg is the estimate for today; not bad with attacks from the base of the final climb.

https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/759796349919498240

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that, while insular, there's something romantic...about the Volta.

I've noticed this, most of "romanticizers" seem Portuguese. I can't quite tell what is bias and what romanticizing, but there is both.

Bias is certainly towards level of racing - all this 800w attacks, most brutal sprints, send Sky train there, or send W52 to Vuelta... I mean... The level is not that high, right?

It's high.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/08/cataclysmic-performance-on-senhora-da.html

Probably not clean but still high.

Still I'm hesitating... In 2013 22 years old Hirt with no previous racing experience there lost 57 seconds on Pardilla.

The field is typically very shallow, only the portuguese teams really care for the race.

On twitter 6.6W/kg is the estimate for today; not bad with attacks from the base of the final climb.

https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/759796349919498240

So twitter says that Veloso, Silva a Brandao are same weight, right? Silva who's 10 kg's lighter than Veloso on procyclingstats. Not that I'd take that number on PCS very seriously, only... The twitter guy/guys can't know riders weight at all, right? I can't take this seriously, sorry.

I mean, I just thought that Hirt performance might show what the level really is. Not that high as here is romanticized.

 

[luckyboy]

He just told me on twitter that he used 70kg estimate for the group. So with their real weight I guess it's a higher number.

 

[jens_attacks]

Lool kokoso talking about national bias ahahjajaja

And of course that is an estimate and the level is higher than every czech rider ever dreamed for

 

[jens_attacks]

Anyway very nice of you kokoso to have chosen the 2013 ascent, the slowest by far. Today was quite different i guess, no?

 

[Thepirateisgood]

Wow, some of you guys have problems not even known to man if not for this website. Can we even discuss the race anymore?

 

[luckyboy]

Does anyone know what kind of budget the teams involved with Porto/Sporting/Boavista get? I imagine they have some decent money from those deals, no?

Makes me think that the even richer Spanish teams could help the Spanish ProConti 'scene'. Real and Barca always run a lot of sports teams, Athletic could make another Basque squad etc.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

Lool kokoso talking about national bias ahahjajaja

And of course that is an estimate and the level is higher than every czech rider ever dreamed for

Gee, do you see this too, guys? What is this?

 

[jens_attacks]

It is the truth but i was a little over my head, sorry if i offended you. Whenever i read one of your posts is always about a czech person. Not that it would be something wrong. My apologies.

The level is not overrated by anyone, it is (unlike ryo hilariously suggested) even higher than in barbosa-ribeiro years.
The best can do 6.5 w/kg for 20 minutes. You will rarely see that in world tour.

Volta a portugal is a good way to show young people how cycling was in the good old days (90s-2006). Some like it, some not.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

It is the truth but i was a little over my head, sorry if i offended you. Whenever i read one of your posts is always about a czech person. Not that it would be something wrong. My apologies.

Ok, nothing serious happened. That's true. I follow first and foremost Czech riders and subsequently most of my post are about Czech riders - because I know more about them than about others, too. On the other hand there are many people who know more about riders from other countries so it makes sense I mostly read there and don't contribute so much, but I do (and not so rarely) so it's bit strange you've never seen it.

The level is not overrated by anyone, it is (unlike ryo hilariously suggested) even higher than in barbosa-ribeiro years.
The best can do 6.5 w/kg for 20 minutes. You will rarely see that in world tour.

Volta a portugal is a good way to show young people how cycling was in the good old days (90s-2006). Some like it, some not.

I've suspected that it's part of why this race is so popular.

Anyway, does that numbers stand for other climbs too, or is that just Senhora da Graca?

Also - take that guys out of Portugal, or even other race in Portugal and they won't repeat that numbers, right?

 

[jens_attacks]

The numbers stand for other climbs too. The next chance to see their level is today on brutal sao macario

None of them can repeat their performances in world tour. But some of them could still be more than decent riders there. Delio fernandez was ok this year at delko...he wasn't like dani diaz or david blanco...

If you ride 6,5 w/kg in volta, normally you can do 6 w/kg in world tour. But it's not guaranteed.

Nonetheless, both antunes and brandao would deserve a chance.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Re: Re:

It is the truth but i was a little over my head, sorry if i offended you. Whenever i read one of your posts is always about a czech person. Not that it would be something wrong. My apologies.

Ok, nothing serious happened. That's true. I follow first and foremost Czech riders and subsequently most of my post are about Czech riders - because I know more about them than about others, too. On the other hand there are many people who know more about riders from other countries so it makes sense I mostly read there and don't contribute so much, but I do (and not so rarely) so it's bit strange you've never seen it.

The level is not overrated by anyone, it is (unlike ryo hilariously suggested) even higher than in barbosa-ribeiro years.
The best can do 6.5 w/kg for 20 minutes. You will rarely see that in world tour.

Volta a portugal is a good way to show young people how cycling was in the good old days (90s-2006). Some like it, some not.

I've suspected that it's part of why this race is so popular.

Anyway, does that numbers stand for other climbs too, or is that just Senhora da Graca?

Also - take that guys out of Portugal, or even other race in Portugal and they won't repeat that numbers, right?

It has definitely kept mostly the same character for the time I've been watching it. Always an ultra-dominant team (call it Maia, Tavira, Efapel, whatever). Riders coming out of nowhere to win it, occasionally and crazy power up climbs (and it doesn't just go for Sra. da Graça but that is probably the most egregious example).

Concerning racing out of Portugal. Some have found success at WT level like Costa (though the first time I took notice of him he was already racing at Movistar), or to a more relevant extent, riders like Bruno Pires or José Gonçalves. On the other hand you have guys like Cândido and Orlando Rodrigues who raced for Banesto in the 90s and (to my limited knowledge) didn't amount to anything, much like Hugo Sabido but were major in Portugal - exception would be Azevedo. And then you have guys like Ricardo Mestre, Nuno Ribeiro, Rui Sousa who were top level here and were never seen outside.

The reasons it's bee like this are obviously debatable, but you have to remember these guys were racing spanish riders like Eladio Jimenez, Santi Perez, Blanco, Bernabeu, Mauri or outliers like Claus Moller who took a lot of wins themselves after being "exiled" from the international races...When I was younger I always wondered why the likes of Cândido never took the leap. Nowadays I pretty much expect to take notice of any new portuguese prospect when he's already racing at a Proconti team like Caja instead of post-winning the Volta. I cannot honestly remember a Volta winner that went on to have a successful career at PT level.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

I cannot honestly remember a Volta winner that went on to have a successful career at PT level.

Nice post

Maybe to win Volta a Portugal is a curse then

and it doesn't just go for Sra. da Graça but that is probably the most egregious example

So if it the numbers are biggest for Sra. da Graca and not so big on other climbs, isn't there something specific about that climb enabling such big numbers?

 

[jens_attacks]

The numbers are just as high on the other climbs


But senhora da graca is climbed ever year. Easier to notice.

 

[Something fishy]

Re:

The numbers stand for other climbs too. The next chance to see their level is today on brutal sao macario

None of them can repeat their performances in world tour. But some of them could still be more than decent riders there. Delio fernandez was ok this year at delko...he wasn't like dani diaz or david blanco...

If you ride 6,5 w/kg in volta, normally you can do 6 w/kg in world tour. But it's not guaranteed.

Nonetheless, both antunes and brandao would deserve a chance.

Maybe it went unnoticed and is easily forgotten, but he managed to finish 10th in the Vuelta of 2004, and 12th in the Vuelta of 2005. There not many Volta winners who are able to finish top 20 in a GT. So he was already a decent rider before he'd won the Volta several years later.