Volta Ciclista a Catalunya 2023, March 20-26

[tobydawq]

Boni seconds were called into life for when there were no actual timegaps, to my understanding. It makes no sense in case of ex aequo to give the advantage based on placings instead of actual differences. As if Evenepoel finishing 76th tomorrow in a peloton sprint and Roglic 89th, being what sets them apart.

It makes just as much sense than your proposal. Bonus seconds are there to encourage and award the fight for good stage placings, it would be pretty bizarre of those seconds were some sort of second-rank time that didn't quite count.

But yeah, the count-back is weird too, I'm not saying that is a perfect solution.

 

[Andy schleck]

Remco said he's between 90 and 95 % and still needs to lose a little weight, if you think of it its a bit scary for the Giro.

It's not scary, it's natural. Everybody is at 90/95% at the moment. Except roglic, that is more far from his peak shape because of his injuries.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It makes just as much sense than your proposal. Bonus seconds are there to encourage and award the fight for good stage placings, it would be pretty bizarre of those seconds were some sort of second-rank time that didn't quite count.

But yeah, the count-back is weird too, I'm not saying that is a perfect solution.

No it doesn't make as much sense. Actual time > virtual time. Actual money > virtual money. Actual girlfriend > virtual girlfriend.

 

[tobydawq]

No it doesn't make as much sense. Actual time > virtual time. Actual money > virtual money. Actual girlfriend > virtual girlfriend.

Well...

Are you suggesting it just as a tiebreaker? Or that the bonus seconds should be given but not counted (I don't even know what this option means, I'm just running out of good counter-arguments ).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Congrats to Remco on winning his first stage this year. His attack was stronger this time and only Primoz managed to match it (but needed a bit of time). Remco's second surge before the line was too much, Primoz (who didn't want to cooperate with Remco) turned out to be weaker. Same time in the GC, obviously Remco celebrating early was decisive here.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Yates did a bit of work before Soler tried to bridge to the front, and then sat up. He is way behind in GC anyway, so it didn't matter

Yeah, but Soler should try to achieve 10th place in final GC. The points are/will be important in the relegation fight…

;-)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well...

Are you suggesting it just as a tiebreaker? Or that the bonus seconds should be given but not counted (I don't even know what this option means, I'm just running out of good counter-arguments ).

Obviously as a tiebreaker. In this case they have the same time. But only one was able to drop the other. Even ever so slightly.

 

[groogster]

Neither is Remco.

Commom sense would tell us that Evenepoel is closer to best form than Roglic

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Commom sense would tell us that Evenepoel is closer to best form than Roglic

If Remco is stronger now and their best form is very similar then yes, it's true. We can't be sure 100% until the Giro though. I think we are yet to see his full potential in a GT race and it could be scary to his rivals.

 

[Lequack]

So now the age long debate of Remco vs Rog is put to rest.

 

[Gargamel35]

No it doesn't make as much sense. Actual time > virtual time. Actual money > virtual money. Actual girlfriend > virtual girlfriend.

Obviously as a tiebreaker. In this case they have the same time. But only one was able to drop the other. Even ever so slightly.

Would you bring this up if we replace Remco with Roglič? No need to answer.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So now the age long debate of Remco vs Rog is put to rest.

We can shut down the forum now.

 

[Big Doopie]

Commom sense would tell us that Evenepoel is closer to best form than Roglic

common sense?

more like wishful thinking.

what could you possibly be basing this on other than your own personal bias?

i personally have no idea which rider is closest to their best form.

what i know, is if remco were not here, rog would have ridden with the rest of the group and outsprinted them at the end.

 

[Red Rick]

common sense?

more like wishful thinking.

what could you possibly be basing this on other than your own personal bias?

i personally have no idea which rider is closest to their best form.

what i know, is if remco were not here, rog would have ridden with the rest of the group and outsprinted them at the end.

I guess the fact that Evenepoel started racing this season way before Roglic is just wishful thinking.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

To talk about some other people than the usual suspects, Van Eetvelt did well today, and Juanpe López looked better than yesterday. Mikel Bizkarra is also getting close to the top 30 now.

 

[Big Doopie]

I guess the fact that Evenepoel started racing this season way before Roglic is just wishful thinking.

What has that to do with anything?

San Juan was a vacation.

And Rog won three straight stages at TA. Unless his competition was not trying and letting him win, he was in good shape.

The idea that ANY of us know where they are exactly in terms of form, yes, is stupid and wishful thinking.

 

[Riek s]

Roglic still seems to be the 2nd/3rd best climber here (at least atm). You don't do that when you are bad. So I think that is most likely the case that is form curve might be different from REmco. But form is a complex area. You have explosiveness, power @ different time-intervals.

Its not because someone is racing longer or has been training different, that his peak or point in form is different. Could be that Remco needs more training to cover a 3 week GT at a high level, but that doesn't modify his normal output for single - week races.

at this point i have no id how much Remco can improve until the Giro. All prediction say it should be less than Roglic given Roglics winter stories..., but Roglic is already very good.. far above what his winter stories would indicate. Him improving 10% might put him above his best form ever.

Not sure how realistic such a take is either.. Friday will tell more on where they both are. That climb is hard enough to get decent W/kg numbers that can give some indication. If Roglic is pushing numbers far from his best than yes, he has a big margin to grow.. otherwise...

 

[Nick2413]

What has that to do with anything?

San Juan was a vacation.

And Rog won three straight stages at TA. Unless his competition was not trying and letting him win, he was in good shape.

The idea that ANY of us know where they are exactly in terms of form, yes, is stupid and wishful thinking.

I agree. Some riders might start slow on purpose but Roglic doesn’t really have a history of that. He doesn’t compete if he’s not ready. He might not be his absolute best yet, but the idea that he has to follow the same trajectory as other riders is silly.

 

[Lequack]

Is it too early to gift Remco the Giro yet?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Is it too early to gift Remco the Giro yet?

If no disaster happens, Primoz brings his Vuelta'21 form and Remco brings his best form we are in for a clash of the titans.

 

[Bonimenier]

So now the age long debate of Remco vs Rog is put to rest.

Was it ever a real debate?

 

[red_flanders]

Not so sure, Roglic is way better than i thought he would be by now, Evenepoel is much closer to being at his peak than Roglic atm. Don't forget that Roglic has just returned. Don't have many doubts that he will be stronger by the time Giro starts.

I'm curious what makes you think that? Evenepoel looks to me a few kilos over, and certainly claims not to be at full speed. I mean, if he is that's an indictment of Quick Step's planning, he shouldn't be near full speed at this point. Roglič seems to have a very high floor, he's always in quite good shape, though I don't doubt he's got more room to peak before the Giro.

 

[Extinction]

Roglic was at altitude before TA, has healed from his operation, thus his trajectory is solid. At 34 (I think) he hasn't much higher to go. Remco is 23, did altitude only before Catalunya, thus it seems logical that his ceiling will be higher come the Giro in 45 days.

 

[Extinction]

Commom sense would tell us that Evenepoel is closer to best form than Roglic

In a world of pretzle logic sure.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

In a world of pretzle logic sure.

Take a dip into the Roglic thread - that is the mantra they're repeating.